2 F112 Fathoms or one F212

[Mike834]

Have A JL F112 right now but thinking upgrading to a F212 and selling F112.
Or should I go 2 F112's instead?

 

[timoteo]

I would Definately go with a second F112!!! This way you have the choice of stacking them for a +6dB increase or having them seperated in the room for a +3dB increase but smoother frequency response (IF both are placed correctly!!)

To me that is an easy question to answer because of the flexability!!

 

[templemaners]

I would Definately go with a second F112!!! This way you have the choice of stacking them for a +6dB increase or having them seperated in the room for a +3dB increase but smoother frequency response (IF both are placed correctly!!)

To me that is an easy question to answer because of the flexability!!

+1. I'd rather have have two smaller subs for the more even frequency response instead of one big one (despite my own set up ).

 

[Irvrobinson]

A few questions:

1. What are your main speakers?

2. Are you running the mains full-range, or do you use bass management?

3. Are you hooked on JL Audio, or are you willing to consider other brands?

 

[Hocky]

Buy the 212 and keep your 112. Done. I have a single 212. Before I bought it, I had single and dual ml descent and tested dual f113. In the end, the single 212 fit best into my room and loads it most powerfully. And it looks way more bad ***. lol. Just for the record, make sure that you don't pay anywhere near msrp for these subs.

 

[shadyJ]

If you need a nice looking and expensive subwoofer, I would go for a Funk Audio 18.0 long before I would go with anything from JL Audio. At this point, JL Audio is like a Rolex watch- yes, it is pretty and it will tell you the time, but it is more of a name-brand bragging right for those that can afford it. A pair of gloss black Rythmik F15HP or Rosewood Hsu ULS-15 subs will offer better performance for less money and look great too.

 

[timoteo]

I definately agree with ShadyJ about not recommending the JL subs. I was trying to answer the question at hand & not get off topic by bringing in other subs. But since that box has been opened I do have to agree with it!!

JLs are great subs but you can get equal or better performance for less!!

Dual HSU: ULS-15 subs are incredible & compact!!

There are so many great subs to be had for the price of two F112s. When the Fathoms first came out I drooled over them like many others did. But now that I have experienced ID brands such as HSU, SVS, Rythmik etc I now recOmmend them over subs like the Fathoms.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would either just keep the single F112 and be happy with it or sell it and get dual Funk Audio 18.0 TSAD subs. Or dual flagships from SVS, Rythmik, or HSU.

I asked the dealer who sold me Salon2 about JL Audio subs. You know what he said? He said, "I could sell you the JL that will cost you thousands, but I think the dual RBH SX-1010 will do just about the same."

Guess he wasn't impressed either.

But hey, I have dual RBH SX-1010, and they sound pretty impressive, so the JL subs must also sound impressive, so just keep your single F112 and be happy. Why spend thousands more on JL Audio?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Buy the 212 and keep your 112. Done. I have a single 212. Before I bought it, I had single and dual ml descent and tested dual f113. In the end, the single 212 fit best into my room and loads it most powerfully. And it looks way more bad ***. lol. Just for the record, make sure that you don't pay anywhere near msrp for these subs.

I use a single big sub too, and also get good results, but I think the others are probably giving reasonable excellent advice that it is easier to get a smooth bass response with multiple subs, though I think the results are main speaker dependent too. If you have mains that reach down into the 20Hz range (like mine) and you run them full-range it is a lot like running three subs.

In my own experimentation and measurements with the OmniMic I've found that I got the smoothest response in the 60-100Hz range by using an 80Hz high-pass filter on my main speakers, but that if I run the mains full-range I get smoother (or at least more easily smoothed) response in the 20-50Hz range. It is also fortuitous that most mains aren't really flat below 40Hz, and that most folks seem to like their bass octaves somewhat hot compared to the rest of the frequency range. (I've adjusted my system so that the entire range below 100Hz is about 3db hotter than at 1KHz.)

I've previously mentioned in other threads that if I were doing it all over again I would probably go for two smaller subs in place of the one big one. I use it only for music, and I think it dozing off from boredom most of the time.

I also agree that the JL 212 is an impressive device. I seriously considered it. A lot of contributors here are price-sensitive, but I think that it represents good value overall at actual street prices. It has more deep bass performance than an F112x2 configuration, in my listening tests. It also has build quality and pride of ownership no HSU has.

 

[Hocky]

I use a single big sub too, and also get good results, but I think the others are probably giving reasonable excellent advice that it is easier to get a smooth bass response with multiple subs, though I think the results are main speaker dependent too. If you have mains that reach down into the 20Hz range (like mine) and you run them full-range it is a lot like running three subs.

In my own experimentation and measurements with the OmniMic I've found that I got the smoothest response in the 60-100Hz range by using an 80Hz high-pass filter on my main speakers, but that if I run the mains full-range I get smoother (or at least more easily smoothed) response in the 20-50Hz range. It is also fortuitous that most mains aren't really flat below 40Hz, and that most folks seem to like their bass octaves somewhat hot compared to the rest of the frequency range. (I've adjusted my system so that the entire range below 100Hz is about 3db hotter than at 1KHz.)

Our set ups are quite similar in those regards. ;-)

 

[shadyJ]

At this point, JL Audio is like a Rolex watch- yes, it is pretty and it will tell you the time, but it is more of a name-brand bragging right for those that can afford it.

It also has build quality and pride of ownership no HSU has.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thanks for proving my point.

BS. My response had nothing to do with bragging rights. Nicely-built things are pleasurable in their own right. I get so tired of things that are poorly designed, engineered, or constructed.

Also, you left out the part where I think the 212 is an awesome performer.

 

[Hocky]

Pretty favorable review here:

JL Audio Fathom f212 Subwoofer | Home Theater

And here:

http://www.stereophile.com/subwoofers/jl_audio_fathom_f212_powered_subwoofer/index.html



and seemingly anywhere else that you can find. One of the sites had a review stating that it had massive output at 13hz, under 5% THD. That is pretty silly. My point? You won't be disappointed if you're not counting pennies. And even if you are, at the real price of the sub, it isn't a terrible value.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I have to agree with the people that recommended another F112 vs the F212. I stacked my F113s and the increase in output was pretty kewl but, I have way more even room coverage and better frequency response with them in opposite corners.

I do enjoy my setup immensely but I am kicking myself for not listening to people here who really know their stuff like warp and getting a couple of LMS-5400 Funkywave builds and 4kW pro crown amplifiers for each of them for what I spent. I'd sell them in a heartbeat if I thought I could get a decent price for them, and buy a couple lms-5400 funkywave builds.

Its a powerful solution in a small enclosure but you could do better for a lot less money. When I first heard it I didn't know what could be improved upon. Now that I've had it for almost a year, and have some experience listening to real subwoofers, I crave to hear what really clean, powerful, bass sounds like. Does distortion in subwoofers make the notes sound "wobbly"?

 

[Hocky]

I have to agree with the people that recommended another F112 vs the F212. I stacked my F113s and the increase in output was pretty kewl but, I have way more even room coverage and better frequency response with them in opposite corners.

I do enjoy my setup immensely but I am kicking myself for not listening to people here who really know their stuff like warp and getting a couple of LMS-5400 Funkywave builds and 4kW pro crown amplifiers for each of them for what I spent. I'd sell them in a heartbeat if I thought I could get a decent price for them, and buy a couple lms-5400 funkywave builds.

Its a powerful solution in a small enclosure but you could do better for a lot less money. When I first heard it I didn't know what could be improved upon. Now that I've had it for almost a year, and have some experience listening to real subwoofers, I crave to hear what really clean, powerful, bass sounds like. Does distortion in subwoofers make the notes sound "wobbly"?

Unless you're playing those subwoofers to really high levels in a huge space, you probably already know what clean, powerful bass sounds like.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I do play them pretty loud, and while the room isn't that large, I think the speakers are trying to pressurize the whole house because of an opening leading upstairs, and an opening leading downstairs. Its less than ideal. With that said, I might not be ecstatic about the sound of any woofer(s) until I get a room that I can seal up properly. Concrete walls, ceiling, triple sliding doors, etc... This room is impractical to modify because of load bearing walls etc..

All that aside, check out this post from warpdrv regarding the F113 vs the SVS PB13 Ultra... I wonder what those kinds of differences in distortion levels sound like.

Looking at the max output of the F113 shows some serious compression on the drivers abilities when pushed hard...
Compression is coming from the small box, and the driver struggling against it...

And the resulting distortion that is accompanied with said performance in such a small box limited the drivers linearity.

Compared to the much cleaner and higher outputting SVS in a similar scenario 20 hz tune

And the far better looking distortion response from a driver that is not inhibited by a small box.

Even the Ultra13 in sealed mode shows extremely nice performance.... although a touch more distortion and a bit of compression....

I'm still wanting to see what the MAX output and THD of the Submersive looks like, I still have mine and am possibly looking to get it to Ricci for testing maybe in the months to come.....
http://www.data-bass.com/data?category=systems&type=0

 

[shadyJ]

Distortion can sound different depending on the distortion type. Higher and odd order harmonic distortion typically sounds much worse than second order harmonic distortion. I would guess that much of that distortion measurements are second order harmonic distortion, and so probably doesn't sound too bad.

As for a 'wobbly' sound from your subs, that doesn't sound like harmonic distortion. That could be just mechanical noises from the drivers being pushed real hard. If you find yourself frequently pushing your drivers real hard and nearing their xmax, you really ought to consider adding more subs are replacing them with higher output subs. Running your subs hard a lot can dramatically reduce their long term reliability. It sounds like it time to think about something like the Seaton Submersive or JTR Captivator.

 

[Mike834]

thanks to all for some nice in sight.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'd sell them in a heartbeat if I thought I could get a decent price for them, and buy a couple lms-5400 funkywave builds.

I was going to get dual LMS-5400, but I got the TSAD 18.0 instead because Nathan Funk said the TSAD is actually more durable and the LMS-5400 is more fragile than the TSAD.

 

[templemaners]

I was going to get dual LMS-5400, but I got the TSAD 18.0 instead because Nathan Funk said the TSAD is actually more durable and the LMS-5400 is more fragile than the TSAD.

Did you ever get your TSAD 18.0's? I don't remember seeing any threads about your impression of them.