2-Channell suggestions

[mdrew]

Hello

I’ve got the bug to buy some new gear and would appreciate some input before clicking on the buy button. I need (want) a new amp / pre-amp combo for stereo use. For reference, I have a set of Axiom M80TI’s. I am currently using the Zone 2 amps off my HK 7200. I am not lacking power, but there just seems to be something missing (don’t know how to describe that statement). I’ve been told by other M80 owners that they really wake up with a robust power supply. My music listening tastes are primarily Alt Rock, Classic Rock, some Country……oh just about anything but Pop/rap/techno. I don’t listen to classical much either, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like it. I also like to listen to music to what some folks consider loud – around 80-90 db.

I’ve been looking at Rotel, NAD and Parasound. The most I’d prefer to spend is $1500, and I’m not comfortable with buying used gear without actually touching/feeling/listening to the gear. Plus, a warrantee is always nice.

My short list is the NAD C272 / C162 combo for about $1100, Rotel RB 1080 / CR 1070 for about $1500, and a Parasound New Classic combo (not sure what these cost).

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Mdrew,

Based on the Axiom specs:

Millennia M80ti Specifications
Enclosure: Triple Vortex / Reflex
Max Amp Power: 400 Watts
Min Amp Power: 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz): 37 - 22kHz Graph
Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz): 25 - 22kHz
Impedance (Ohms): 4 Ohmz
SPL in Room1w/1m(dB): 95 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(dB): 91 dB
X-Over 160Hz & 2.3kHz
Tweeter: Dual 1"
Woofer: Dual 5.25"
Sub Woofer: Dual 6.5"
Dimens. H W D (inches): 39.5" x 9.25" x 17"
Dimens. H W D (mm): 1003 x 235 x 432
Weight (lbs) each 55 lbs
Weight (kg) each 25 kgs

Could it be you need a better sub? What are you running now? Dual 6.5" woofers don't exactly put out enourmous bass, especially for the music you listen to at the volumes you like. If that's not the case...

The HK puts out tremendous power, so what I'm reading is more of a fidelity issue, correct? I've always though of HK's as very even keeled, powerful flat sounding receivers. Smooth. Clean. Nothing you would rock out to with some Iron Maiden or Motley Crue. I think the same of NAD and Parasound though, also. Now Rotel seems to have more of a bite that may bring out those crash cymbals. My advice, if it's not the bass issue, would be to demo the Rotel with several of your favorite cd's at your place with your Axioms.

 

[zumbo]

Audio Advisor (30 day return policy)

Wild West (free shipping)

 

[mdrew]

Thanks for the reply and links. I’m new to high-fi and quite frankly, out of my league when it comes to selecting gear and making the right choice. All I know is that I like to listen to music, and I have always liked the way high end gear sounded. If I could afford it, I wouldn’t hesitate to drop 20K on a stereo system. But I can’t, so I get the best that I can afford. I’ve been screwed ever since I took the time to sit down and listen to 100K set up at a sound shop about 10 years ago. I’ve only just started getting serious about this for the past year and a half – IE: divorce and only me to justify expenditures to.

For your reference, I do have a sub; it’s an Outlaw LFM-1. And with the sub turned off, the music feels naked. Not that the 80’s don’t have bass, but just not enough for me. They don’t need much either, the sub is set 1 db higher than the speakers (roughly set with a Radio Shack dig meter). The crossover is set at 80 and I move it to 60 when playing country. I don’t know how to describe what ‘I perceive’ as missing – maybe nothing. I probably should have bought warmer speakers seeing how I like bass, but I love the way these 80’s bring out the mid range and highs with female vocalists like Alison Kraus. I will most likely move these to the HT when I finish it, and then buy a different set of speakers for this area where I listen to stereo and entertain guests (the great room).

At any rate, I will need to purchase something to drive whatever speaker happens to remain in the great room. And whatever I buy, I would like a step up from where I’m at now with the HK. I was looking for 200 wpc / 8 ohm, but after reading up on NAD and all the headroom their amps are supposed to have, I included the C272 on my shopping list even though NAD rates it at 150 wpc 4/8 ohms.

 

[zumbo]

I am 99.9% certain that a 2-channel pre-pro will not have the .1 LFE output for your sub.

I would suggest using an AVR for the pre-pro.(OOPS! SEE BELOW )

I see your sub has line level inputs. I have never used them, but I think you CAN use a 2-channel pre-pro and go line level into the sub, and then on to your speakers.

 

[mdrew]

Yes, that's how I'm running it now. Line level. I had to as I'm using the surround back amps off the Zone 2 option. Otherwise, the sub would be playing when I'm watching movies in a different area of the house.

 

[jaxvon]

Have you thought about maybe biamping your M80Ti's with a pair of Outlaw monoblocks each?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Could it be warmer speakers would solve the problem? I highly doubt your HK receiver is the culprit. I would try some in home demo's with different speakers to possibly rule out the receiver. You could rack up some serious dollars buying amps when the issue could be something else. It appears you have the ears for good sounding music. Most guys like you have two rooms - one for A/V and one for music. It's hard to make discerning listeners (like most of us on this forum!) happy with one "do it all" system. I'm almost there, but honestly get tired of adjusting my sub level between music and theatre.

 

[mdrew]

That’s exactly what I have. An area that I watch TV/DVD’s and an area that I listen to stereo.). Currently, my "HT" is in the loft above the great room. The great room is 28'X32' with 22' vaulted ceilings - minus the open loft area. I do not have room for 7.1 in the loft (10' X 10'), so for the time being, I'm just taking advantage of the 7200's zone two option to drive the 80's downstairs for stereo use. This is also where I have the sub (great room). I'm using a Bose Aucustmas (sp?) Cubes and bass module in the loft that I bought at Costco for $500. I know, they suck, but they work well enough for the time being, and I really don't have room for anything bigger than those stinking little cubes up there anyway. Plus I didn't pay the regular $1200 they like to gouge the unsuspecting Paul Harvey followers for.

I'm in the process of finishing my basement (have been for the past two years), and plan to have it finished by Christmas. Part of the basement will be a dedicated HT room (14' X 18'). There will also be a spa room, spare BR, 2 bathrooms, and a small kitchen....that's why it's taking me so long. A lot of work to do on weekends, plus I'm doing it all out of pocket.

So, when the basement and HT is finished, I'm moving the 7200 there and I'll buy some real speakers for it. I may move the 80's to the HT room and buy Axiom QS8's and a VP150 to compliment them. If I do use the 80's for the HT, I will most likely buy some warmer speakers. But at any rate, I'm still going to need something to drive them with as my HT will be a 7.1 set up. And whatever speakers I do go with for stereo in the great room, I'm sure they'll like as much, if not more oomph than the M80's do.

To summarize all this babbling, I am taking advantage of a little extra cash I have to buy gear for the "stereo" listening area that I will have to buy anyway.

 

[mdrew]

Buckeyefan

Can you expand a little on the different characteristics between Rotel, NAD and Parasound? That might help me pick one.

I sure like the NAD pre-amp over the others (the tone controls mainly). Is it a bad idea to mix pre amps and pwr amp manufactures? Maybe go with the Rotel amp and NAD pre?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

As far as the characteristics go, they will very from speaker to speaker. I can tell you that NAD bought a circuit copywright from Proton, and Proton amps are known for their excellent headroom. Parasound is IMO the best of the three due to its dampening. You may also consider Adcom - you should be able to get a good one for under $700.