2 channel turn table setup: first steps

sven1olaf

sven1olaf

Audioholic
Hey hey hey,

I am excited that after my recent dive into rejuvenating my media room (still working on finding a contractor to do a little work on a built in), my wife is now asking about a turn table setup for the living room

The thing is, I've never owned a TT before and don't the basics of what I need to get going.

I will be using focal 807V's as the L/R, and 1 of my Sunfire hrs-12's...with access to my old Marantz 5007 if needed. But I understand that most choose to not go with an AVR for these setups.

Can someone let me know what I should be looking into for gear?
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
Is this a dedicated stereo system? If so, I believe Yamaha makes some stereo receivers with bass management for a subwoofer. I’m sure they aren’t the only one.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Thew only reason I can think of to not use an AVR is if you are not going to have a TV attached, the setup can be cumbersome.
Given you already have the 5007 sitting around, and assuming you already have familiarity with its setup menu (and especially if you will have a TV attached or can attach one for the setup routine), I do not see any practical reason to not use it!
Because of the economies of scale, an AVR is a simply better buy in todays world than a stereo receiver even if you only use two channels (plus sub) - you get a better capability for less.
As Wayne mentions, a mainstream stereo receiver usually will not have the ability to integrate a subwoofer. The sub output on these is a full range signal and the mains get a full range signal as well. Consequently what you do is use he crossover knob on the sub to "best guess" your way to matching the subs crossover to the roll-off of your L & R speakers. There are a precious few stereo receivers that do this one task (crossover to sub) like an AVR does (which is much preferable as you are relieving your mains from pushing their limits in the bass frequencies)!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Also, check to make sure your Marantz 5007 has an specific input for a turntable (I think is does). If not, you would need a turntable pre-amp to adapt it to a normal line in signal before connecting to a standard input connector. IOW, if you look at audio RCA inputs on the back of your AVR, they are all identical in how they treat the incoming signal with the exception of the turntable connection. There is a special EQ curve that needs to be applied to turntable inputs and I think the signal level might be different as well!
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Also, check to make sure your Marantz 5007 has an specific input for a turntable (I think is does). If not, you would need a turntable pre-amp to adapt it to a normal line in signal before connecting to a standard input connector. IOW, if you look at audio RCA inputs on the back of your AVR, they are all identical in how they treat the incoming signal with the exception of the turntable connection. There is a special EQ curve that needs to be applied to turntable inputs and I think the signal level might be different as well!
The SR5007 doesn't have a phono preamp. The OP would need an external one. I would recommend the following product:

https://www.amazon.com/Schiit-Mani-Phono-Preamp-Cartridges/dp/B07P8WYX6N/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=SCHiit+Phono+Preamplifier&qid=1561921124&s=gateway&sr=8-3#customerReviews
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'd ask why do you/the wife want to go with a turntable at all? You have an existing record collection to play? How much do you want to spend? Don't forget the DAC for the tt (sorry, couldn't resist :) ).
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I think Lovin has posed a pertinent question. I will expand.

Why does your wife want to spin vinyl?

Legitimate reasons are that you have a legacy LP collection. You want to search for rare material not committed to CD and likely never will be. That you want to try some new thick vinyl pressings. You played vinyl in your youth and are nostalgic for the pleasure of spinning vinyl.

Bad reasons are to think vinyl will give you audio nirvana and be better then digital media. Although properly set up it can be very good, it is not better the digital media.

It my experience unless you have a known source, buying used vinyl is highly problematic. Finding discs that have been lovingly cared for is not common.

Now as a guy who has spun discs for nearly 70 years, I do not agree with most of the advice given above.

Now the first thing to recognize is that playing vinyl is a mechanical act primarily and not electrical. That means there are significant gains as you move up the food chain so to speak. So increase in design craftsmanship of the rotation mechanism, PU arms and cartridges give far greater improvements in quality than in dealing wit digital media.

Your next decision is do you want to go vintage or used?

Next is that unless you have very small speakers I do not recommend a sub. Vinyl was generally cut with a high pass filter at 30 Hz. If not you got very reduced playing times. Back in the day RIAA sections frequently rolled off below 30 Hz to limit acoustic feedback and prevent low frequency problems.

So good vintage electronics is in many ways preferable to a modern AVR if the system is primarily for LP playback. In addition many units had facilities for "cleaning up" rising distortion with frequency. This is a common problem above 7 KHz. The variable turnover and slope controls on Quad preamps being particularly effective.

Here is a very good vinyl rig.



Vintage Thorens TD 125 Mk II with SME series III arm and Shure V15 xmr cartridge, all vintage.

Vintage Quad FM 4 tuner, Quad 34 preamp and Quad 909 power amp.

It is actually easier to add a screen to a good vintage rig, than a good turntable system to a primarily AV system.

Lastly if you have a preamp and power amp, it is easy to add bass management and put in a sub if you want to. Electronic crossovers are easy to obtain, and actually you can do very flexible bass management going that route.

This Quad 44 preamp is the absolute "Rolls Royce" of units for playing back vinyl and will drive any power amp you want. Almost certainly it will have much longer legs than an AVR.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I agree with everything TLSGuy says ... however ... if setting up a turntable will give your wife part ownership and interest in having a great sound system (and you're not pulling money for it from your child's education funds) I'd consider it an excellent purchase!
And tell her occasionally how great of an idea it was to get a TT!
 
jgstudios

jgstudios

Audioholic Intern
my 2 cents. I didn't see anyone elaborate on this yet, but as a 55 year old who grew up with vinyl, and am still playing vinyl, there is a big difference living with it compared to CDs or streaming. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting into vinyl and turntables. But, someone needs to say it. Vinyl is easy to damage compared to CDs, so you have to always be careful, diligent and somewhat focused. Even a very small particle or surface scratch makes itself very obvious upon playback. Can you live with that, can you live with a bunch of these pops and scratchy sounds? Digital playback has no such fails and moving into this old school media may not be very fun once your favorite and most expensive album gets devirginized by a small nick. You have to learn how to keep them clean. Fingerprints and other such contaminants don't always clean off very easily. Scratches are usually permanent, and deep ones, loops, are virtually impossible to remove in most cases, though I've seen a few you toob vids where people have resurrected a looped groove. In short, it requires more effort, thought and care. It's a process. I grew up with it, I'm used to it, I love it, so I can live with all these things. For me getting a new album was like a ritual. The artwork on the album cover, perhaps even some good images on the inner sleeve were a special thing and added to the enjoyment of the music. I studied the artwork. Then many albums printed the lyrics as well. That opened up the whole experiences of the songs. Prior to that, many album lyrics could remain a mystery for years with people singing the wrong words. Manfred Man's "Blinded by the Light" is a great example of that. I don't think anyone I knew had the lyrics right on that one for years as kids. Then there's the whole turntable experience. Keeping it clean, making sure the stylus was ok, making sure it was weighted properly. That info was not easy to find back in the 70s for most kids. Now it's all out there on the internets. So much easier now. We learned by making mistakes I guess. It was fun, it was a ritual. Me and my friends did it, not because we enjoyed it, but because that's what you have to do to make it work properly. It was all we had until phillips cassettes came out. Then I would immediately record my albums to tape and preserve them until the next recording session. That was it's own fun ritual as well. I'm glad people are interested in vinyl again. It's given me a chance to purchase albums that I always wish I would have bought as a young person. I am finishing up my vinyl wish list. I still have an very nice working Pioneer TT from 1979. New feet, cleaning, and a new headshell and cartridge is what I've done so far. I also polished the acrylic cover to remove some scratches. A good TT can set you back some $$$, not to mention all the accessories that are needed. Cleaning supplies, alignment tools, etc will always be needed. I love spinning vinyl, and I enjoy all the other efforts that go along with it. I hope you do as well. Just be aware of what it all entails. Record albums are not like CDs. They will play as well as they are cared for.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Ninja
my 2 cents. I didn't see anyone elaborate on this yet, but as a 55 year old who grew up with vinyl, and am still playing vinyl, there is a big difference living with it compared to CDs or streaming. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting into vinyl and turntables. But, someone needs to say it. Vinyl is easy to damage compared to CDs, so you have to always be careful, diligent and somewhat focused. Even a very small particle or surface scratch makes itself very obvious upon playback. Can you live with that, can you live with a bunch of these pops and scratchy sounds? Digital playback has no such fails and moving into this old school media may not be very fun once your favorite and most expensive album gets devirginized by a small nick. You have to learn how to keep them clean. Fingerprints and other such contaminants don't always clean off very easily. Scratches are usually permanent, and deep ones, loops, are virtually impossible to remove in most cases, though I've seen a few you toob vids where people have resurrected a looped groove. In short, it requires more effort, thought and care. It's a process. I grew up with it, I'm used to it, I love it, so I can live with all these things. For me getting a new album was like a ritual. The artwork on the album cover, perhaps even some good images on the inner sleeve were a special thing and added to the enjoyment of the music. I studied the artwork. Then many albums printed the lyrics as well. That opened up the whole experiences of the songs. Prior to that, many album lyrics could remain a mystery for years with people singing the wrong words. Manfred Man's "Blinded by the Light" is a great example of that. I don't think anyone I knew had the lyrics right on that one for years as kids. Then there's the whole turntable experience. Keeping it clean, making sure the stylus was ok, making sure it was weighted properly. That info was not easy to find back in the 70s for most kids. Now it's all out there on the internets. So much easier now. We learned by making mistakes I guess. It was fun, it was a ritual. Me and my friends did it, not because we enjoyed it, but because that's what you have to do to make it work properly. It was all we had until phillips cassettes came out. Then I would immediately record my albums to tape and preserve them until the next recording session. That was it's own fun ritual as well. I'm glad people are interested in vinyl again. It's given me a chance to purchase albums that I always wish I would have bought as a young person. I am finishing up my vinyl wish list. I still have an very nice working Pioneer TT from 1979. New feet, cleaning, and a new headshell and cartridge is what I've done so far. I also polished the acrylic cover to remove some scratches. A good TT can set you back some $$$, not to mention all the accessories that are needed. Cleaning supplies, alignment tools, etc will always be needed. I love spinning vinyl, and I enjoy all the other efforts that go along with it. I hope you do as well. Just be aware of what it all entails. Record albums are not like CDs. They will play as well as they are cared for.
Very nice. I also started with vinyl back in the 70s and used to record my LPs to cassettes. The cassettes were ok but never quite the same as the LP.
 
sven1olaf

sven1olaf

Audioholic
Great info guys! Thank you.

I am looking into getting my hands on the vintage stuff mentioned above: Vintage Thorens TD 125 Mk II with SME series III arm and Shure V15 xmr cartridge, all vintage. Vintage Quad FM 4 tuner, Quad 34 preamp and Quad 909 power amp.

This isn't going to happen quickly, but it's nice to have goals. In the meantime, do you have any recommendations on a decent starter set that will allow for future expansion/upgradability?

I have been looking at various new tt's but don't know where to start with tine arms and cassettes.

Does a platform like the https://www.audioadvice.com/rega-planar-3-2016-turntable.html[/IRL]rega planar 3 work for a decent starting spot?
 
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