A

Alessio

Audioholic Intern
This may be a very silly question for the people trying to start a home theater system (the choices are mind-bogling) but I need some advice on buying a receiver for a 2-channel system.

Where to start? Well, speaker-wise, I am looking at something in the area of the PSB Silver, Acoustic Energy Aelite 3, B&W 604 and I am considering taking up Ohm Walsh on its offer of 120 home-trial of the 100 MK-2.

Now, I have been looking at receivers along a pretty wide price range from Yamaha HK, NAD, Arcam and Rotel and frankly I am confused. From looking at the spec sheets on these receivers they seem very comparable but obviously there is a huge difference in price. So, my question is, what do I need to look for in a 2-channel receiver? And what are the "musts" for driving speakers like the ones I listed above?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
Alessio said:
This may be a very silly question for the people trying to start a home theater system (the choices are mind-bogling) but I need some advice on buying a receiver for a 2-channel system.

Where to start? Well, speaker-wise, I am looking at something in the area of the PSB Silver, Acoustic Energy Aelite 3, B&W 604 and I am considering taking up Ohm Walsh on its offer of 120 home-trial of the 100 MK-2.

Now, I have been looking at receivers along a pretty wide price range from Yamaha HK, NAD, Arcam and Rotel and frankly I am confused. From looking at the spec sheets on these receivers they seem very comparable but obviously there is a huge difference in price. So, my question is, what do I need to look for in a 2-channel receiver? And what are the "musts" for driving speakers like the ones I listed above?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!
Well, we need some more information.

Budget?
Type of Music you listen to?
Room Size?
What sources do you intend to use? (CD, Tuner, Turn Table, etc.)

The speakers you mentioned are a good start. Be sure and try them out to see if they are what you want. As far as receivers/amps go, if you only intend to use this system for 2 channel and would never want to get into HT, then I would stick with seperates. They are generally more money but they are simply better for 2 channel. If this is the case, I would probably drop Yamaha and H/K off the list. These companies and others like Denon, Marantz and Onkyo make great A/V receivers but are not really known for seperates and 2 channel. Rotel, NAD, and Arcam are all good Amps. You might even want to check the used market. You can find some really good deals on used Amps at a fraction of their original cost. You might even look at Outlaw Audio. They are factory direct and have some really good deals. Some others to look at, Adcom, Parasound, Carver, Bryston.

Shinerman
 
A

Alessio

Audioholic Intern
Shinerman,

Thanks for your reply. And not a bad choice in beer either :)

I'll start with the easiest answers first:

room size: 15wx25lx8h
music: 60% Jazz, 20%/each Classical & Rock

budget: My total budget is about $2500. I am looking at between $1300 - $1700 on speakers. So that leaves around $800 -$1000 for a receiver or seperates.

Your question about whether I will move ionto HT is a little harder to answer. My thought is that I will but I do not know when that will be. Buying an AVR would, of course, save me from buying a second AVR down the road. However, I bought a Sony surround sound receiver about 12 years ago with the same intention and never got to setting up an HT. Also, I am not sure what I give up in audio buying an AVR in order to get the video processing capabilities.

I guess my main problem in all this is that I do not know what to look for in a receiver.
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
I use a NAD c370 integrated amp I am happy with.

Integrated amps are good for lots of 2-channel power and still being cheaper than separates. But you have to buy the AM/FM tuner seperate. (which isnt a problem for me because there are no good stations worth listening to here).
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
The more I think about it, I would still probably go with seperates even if you may get into HT down the road. You can always buy a mid price A/V receiver later and run it through an Amp you buy now. A lot of people prefer this route because you get the quality and power of an Amp but you get the digital technology of the A/V receiver. As technology advances, you can always go out and spend $300 on the latest and greatest A/V rig and plug the Amp into it. In regard to the AMP, quality power is quality power. It's does not really change that much at all with new technology.

You might consider getting a 3 channel Amp for now. That way it you do get in HT, you can use it to power your 2 mains and the center channel. The most important speakers in HT. The rears can easily be run by the A/V.

Shinerman
 
A

Alessio

Audioholic Intern
This is the begginer's forum right? Ok, so now for another stupid question: What is the difference between an amplifier and an integrated amplifier?
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
Alessio said:
This is the begginer's forum right? Ok, so now for another stupid question: What is the difference between an amplifier and an integrated amplifier?

Short answer? An Amp is just an Amp. It just provides power. An integrated Amp also has a switching system built in. With an integrated you can plug a DVD, CD, VCR, Turn Table, Tuner, etc. into it and switch between them. With an Amp, you can just plug one source into it. With an Amp, you can always buy a Pre-Amp that will let you add and switch between mutiple components. A pre-amp has no power output. So, an integrated amp is just like a pre-amp and amp combined.

Shinerman
 
Last edited:
gregz

gregz

Full Audioholic
Hey, two channel talk! I'm still in two channel mode, taking my SWEEEET time before I eventually jump on the HT bandwagon. When I do, I'll do what Shinerman suggested with the $350 receiver in conjunction with my current stereo amp.

But getting back to your questions, here's my slightly twisted take on your choices:

Denon, Yamaha, HK, and the others USED to make good stereo equipment, but since that's a niche market next to HT, they all migrated their best stuff over to multi-channel, leaving only a few scraps to choose from in two channel. However, that being said, the multi-channel HT receivers aren't a whole lot more expensive today than the comparable stereo receivers were a decade ago. There are several reasons for this: Outsourcing to China, automated surface mount production, and most of all because the size of the power supplies hasn't increased to keep up with the channels.

What this means is you can buy a decent 5-channel (or 7 channel) receiver for $700 and have a very competent stereo receiver that's probably on par with a high quality stereo receiver from 10 years ago that would have costed the same (adjusted for prices then, of course). You're not actually "wasting" power on the channels you're not using, becuase the common power supply is not truly able to power all channels at once at the rated power. The rated power of receivers is ONLY for two channels - perfect! The parts you're not using are the extra output transistors and the surround processing, which are commodity electronics. It's the power supplies that are expensive, and that's what you'll use. Out of the current choices, Denon, Yamaha, JVC, and Onkyo are the most appealing to me.

So that's your inexpensive option. You're getting great quality for cheaper prices than separates because you're in the mainstream market and getting the discount of mass production. Once you move to a niche market, prices go up dramatically but with much less return. I've "specked" out some NAD, ROTEL, and ADCOM amplifiers and they're extremely pricy for not much difference in specs. Oh, sure, there may be extremely suptle differences, but whether they're audible in a double blind test is questionable - and they DON'T have the massive power reserves that separates used to have a decade ago. For the price, you can get much more power and current handling from high end HT receivers.

BTW, I was recently in a situation where I was looking at power amplifiers because I was expecting to need 250W into a 4ohm load. Most of today's separates no longer run 4 ohms, and the ones that do are SOOOOOOOOOPER pricey so I began looking into DJ amplifiers (pro audio). There are some promising brands out there, two of which don't have noisey cooling fans, but they're optimized for 4 and 2 ohm loads, so you'd have to spend more to get higher voltage needed for 8 ohms. One member did this, and reports very good sound from his Alesis amps.

That's power. Bam.
 
gregz

gregz

Full Audioholic
PART II

Yes, I'm baaaaaack!! Now that you've had a chance to wipe the spit off the screen from all my blabbing about amplifiers and receivers, I'll mention a bit about speakers. I'll try to keep it short.

Speakers are the weakest link in any system.

I'll say it again. ...No, I'll just think it real loud....

Ok, so now that I've repeated myself, I'll go on to say that you might want to consider keeping your budget speaker-heavy. This is especially true considering you listed 60% Jazz, because that tends to be the best recorded "true" music that really needs good speakers to recreate.

If you have good headphones, you have a good reference. Typically, headphones costing $50 to $70 sound better than speakers costing $2,000 just because of the mechanics involved. Heck, $20 headphones sound better than most $700 speakers.

Go on a mission. Take several of your best recorded CDs out on the town (or the nearest towns) and listen to as many speakers as possible. Good speakers at good stores, skip the boomy-bloat boxes at the mass discount stores.

I found the difference between speakers astonishing to say the least. I listened to speakers ranging from $300 to $5000, even though my target was $1000 speakers. It's good to hear the more expensive stuff, again as reference.

This is where it gets contentious as many don't agree, but I think since speakers are such an imperfect technology (within the affordable price range) that which speakers we prefer is a very personal thing. I can't tolerate certain shortcomings that some seem to barely notice, and vice versa on several popular brands and models. Bookshelf models are almost always a better sound than tower speakers within the same price point, so I'd recommend bookshelf speakers that you can later ad a subwoofer if you want the lowest registers.

Me? My ears love the NHT SB-1's, which is what I bought at the end of my quest. They sound better with a sub, but I knew I was already building my subs so that wasn't a problem.

Happy hunting!
 

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