1995 Harman Kardon Citation 7.1 vs Rotel 1582

[CuGame]

I am currently owned the Citation 7.1, would like to upgrade to Rotel 1582 to run my pair of Martin Logan ESL 9. Should I? Will The Rotel beat the Citation in sound Quality?

 

[everettT]

Define beat? I'd say they are pretty similar.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hopefully they're more equal than different, or something's off with one vs the other? Citation's a four channel amp, with a 4 ohm rating, but slightly less power into 8 ohms than the 2ch Rotel's 8 ohm rating (but no 4 ohm rating). The Rotel's input is less sensitive (1.1 vs 1.9V) so might depend on your pre to an extent. The Rotel has age advantage it seems, tho.

 

[CuGame]

Hopefully they're more equal than different, or something's off with one vs the other? Citation's a four channel amp, with a 4 ohm rating, but slightly less power into 8 ohms than the 2ch Rotel's 8 ohm rating (but no 4 ohm rating). The Rotel's input is less sensitive (1.1 vs 1.9V) so might depend on your pre to an extent. The Rotel has age advantage it seems, tho.

I am using the Denon 7200wa as the pre-amp for both music and movies.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am using the Denon 7200wa as the pre-amp for both music and movies.

The Denon can probably handle the 1.9V sensitivity level but that's even higher than many pro amps....why the itch to change? Any particular issue? I doubt you get any advantage with either external amp if in 2ch mode with that avr...at best a 1 or 2 dB advantage.

 

[CuGame]

I wanted the release the weight on the denon plus I am running 11.1 atsmo surround

 

[lovinthehd]

That's fine I just wouldn't expect much SQ differences between different power amps beyond the power/impedance aspects.

 

[CuGame]

It there any good types of music to test for there sound Quality, before I return the Rotel?

 

[CuGame]

There should be sound quality different between them right?

 

[lovinthehd]

There should be sound quality different between them right?

A good amp should have no particular sound quality of its own, it should simply cleanly amplify the signal and most do. Might have more to do with your speakers in terms of a specific interface.

 

[dannispel]

This might be too late for the OP (still waiting to hear what you did), but I just had a chance to audition both of these amps on the same speakers at my local stereo store. Through B & W 703s, the H/K smashed the Rotel in terms of sound quality. It had a more detailed, richer, warmer sound. The guys at the store agreed, and they were initially pointing me toward the Rotel! I walked out with the H/K and kept nearly a grand in my pocket (H/K was $699). If you ask me, stick with your Citation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

the H/K smashed the Rotel in terms of sound quality.

About 50% of people doubt that very much.

The other 50% of people might agree with you.

It's easier to believe if the difference is more subtle, instead of "smashed", "mopped the floor", "blew away", or other night-and-day phrases.

 

[dannispel]

Fair enough . My exuberance over my new amp may have gotten the better of me. However, the difference wasn't too subtle for my buddy who isn't in the stereo game (I brought him as an unbiased party).

The new price difference between these amps is fairly striking however and should give the OP pause over whether he truly would be upgrading. Accounting for inflation, the H/K cost about $5k new, several price tiers above the $1600 Rotel. Unless there are other issues with his H/K, I don't know that amplifier technology has advanced enough in 20 years to make up for that.

Maybe "smashed" is a bit of a hyperbole, but in a side-by-side comparison between the two the H/K was a clear winner on that system.

 

[Verdinut]

If there's a huge noticeable difference in the performance of 2 amps, most probably it has to do with insufficient output from one of the amplifiers reaching clipping levels.

A mismatch between one of the amplifiers and the speakers driven is a situation that also happens. For example, some hard to drive speakers with impedances reaching around 2 ohms or less at low frequencies will destabilize a lot of amplifiers, whereas some solidly built amps will be able to handle them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I brought him as an unbiased party...

...H/K cost about $5k new, several price tiers above the $1600 Rotel.

Unless it was a double-blind test, there was bias.

Just knowing the H/K costs more than the Rotel introduces bias.

 

[PENG]

About 50% of people doubt that very much.

The other 50% of people might agree with you.

It's easier to believe if the difference is more subtle, instead of "smashed", "mopped the floor", "blew away", or other night-and-day phrases.

I think on it would be more like 55/45 % split either way depending on the day in the week, same if the internal amps of the x7200wa is included in the comparison.

 

[dannispel]

Unless it was a double-blind test, there was bias.

Just knowing the H/K costs more than the Rotel introduces bias.

Okay... this is totally beside the point. What I'm getting at is that the OP should think twice before switching from his Citation to the Rotel. It would probably not be an upgrade to his ears, but he should hear it for himself. Everything else aside, four sets of ears agreed with this in a side by side comparison.

 

[lovinthehd]

Okay... this is totally beside the point. What I'm getting at is that the OP should think twice before switching from his Citation to the Rotel. It would probably not be an upgrade to his ears, but he should hear it for himself. Everything else aside, four sets of ears agreed with this in a side by side comparison.

What pre-amp(s) were used for the amp comparo? Just on the B&W speakers?

 

[dannispel]

It was a Rotel RC 1590 pre for both amps. Listening on a nice Marantz 8xxxx CD player. Just through the B&Ws.

A mismatch between one of the amplifiers and the speakers driven is a situation that also happens.

Possible in this case. Those B&Ws shouldn't be hard to drive though.

 

[lovinthehd]

It was a Rotel RC 1590 pre for both amps. Listening on a nice Marantz 8xxxx CD player. Just through the B&Ws.

Possible in this case. Those B&Ws shouldn't be hard to drive though.

B&Ws often do have that reputation and these do dip down to 3 ohms https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-702-s2-loudspeaker-measurements