$1400 for (almost) bottom line speakers ?

[jcsprankle]

In an effort to upgrade my entire HT setup, I figured I would upgrade my speakers first (Budget=$1500/pair). Originally, I had it set that B&W DM604 S3 was the way to go (or maybe the 603). But, I was reading another thread where someone mentioned why spend that much money for bottom of the line speakers.

That's when I started looking at other brands like Axiom (M60s) or Energy (C-series or RC-series, depending on cost). Now, I'm undecided.

I know B&W is an excellent brand and I know speakers are highly subjective but would you rather spend $1500 of a bottom line B&W model or top of the line Axiom or Energy model?

 

[MDS]

I would avoid classifying speakers as top or bottom of the line based on price as that is not a useful comparison. 'Bottom of the line' has a negative connotation even though the B&W are much more expensive than Axiom. So do you dismiss the B&W because that model is the bottom of the line or do you think they are much better because they cost more?

I'd say look at all the other factors to compare them: specs like power handling, frequency response, and sensitivity; aesthetics, warranty, and cost. If at all possible, listen to them as well (keeping in mind that they may sound different in your actual room).

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Also think this way with speakers...The top of the line may have much more money put into the look of the speaker. Real woods and fancy design work and the like that may or may not have an affect on the sound. The technology may or may not be that different. Every brand and line can be different so take a close look.


Just something to think about,
SBF1

 

[jcsprankle]

Good points...

You guys make good points. After I read your replies, I realized that it was sort of a silly question because I already know that everything is relative. I have heard the 603 S2 at a friends house and loved them...that's why I decided on the 604 S3.

What I haven't done is directly compared the specs for B&W vs. Axiom. I love the styling on the Axioms better than B&W. I should be able to listen to both, but in very different rooms. I'll make a decision then.

I was just trying to get some suggestions/advice from owners. I would imagine, though, that people that own B&W probably love them and the same goes for Axiom.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Axiom highs and B&W highs are going to have their own signature. Be extremely sure you listen to Axiom's before buying an entire set.

 

[jcsprankle]

Axiom highs and B&W highs are going to have their own signature. Be extremely sure you listen to Axiom's before buying an entire set.

I met a guy on the Axiom forums that has offered his home for my auditioning pleasure this weekend. He has the exact set that I'm thinking about...M60 mains with VP150 center. Then, I'll go directly to the Home Theater store and give the B&Ws another listen. Unfortunately, it won't be apples to apples because the Axioms are in someone's house while the B&Ws are in an acoustically perfect (or pretty close to, I assume) room. But, that's the best I'm going to get.

I'll give the 604 and the 603s a listen as I remember someone on this forum recommended the 603s over the 604s.

 

[mdrew]

Take Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon CD with you to both places. The intro to Time and Breath sounds pretty amazing on the Axioms, as well as the B&W’s. Not my favorite group, or album, but it will make you appreciate a good set of speakers.

Personally, I prefer the 703’s and find that if you compare B&W to Axiom, the 703’s are a closer match to the M80’s than the 600 series. I haven’t heard the M60’s, but have a set of M80’s.

 

[einsteinjb]

I would agree with MDS that it's better to concern yourself with the SOUND first, then of course specs, build quality, aesthetics, everything else that goes into the decision, rather than where each speaker sits in that company's respective line. B&W's absolutely lowest level speaker, for example, will still sound better than some other companies' very best offerings. That shouldn't be true against a good company like Axiom of course but it's still a valid point.

I haven't heard Axioms but I'm very familiar with the B&W 600 series and I can tell you, there is NOTHING "bottom of the line" about either the 603s or the 604s. They're both great speakers. A lot of their Nautilus technology has found its way into the 600 series 3 line and it's great stuff. Very well engineered and put together, and I love their sound. They're not the best speakers in the world and quite probably not even the best at their price points, but they're a very valid choice and for many people they're the right one.

By the way if you check bwspeakers.com you'll see that the 600 series isn't NEARLY their bottom line range. Below them there's the 300 series, then a whole variety of smaller or special purpose lines designed for different applications or for those who want the B&W logo on their HT speakers but can't afford the really good stuff. As I said, much of their Nautilus engineering has trickled down to the 600 series and actually I think by moving down from the 700 series to the 600, you're giving up more finish and aesthetics than sound.

Definitely compare them to the Axioms if you can, and if you get the chance you might also consider Swans or Rockets (both ID brands). And of course a lot of people prefer Paradigms to the B&W 600 series, though I personally do not unless you move way up to the Signature Series.

Incidentally I'll actually be comparing my brand spankin new set of Swans 5.2 (I had them delivered to my engineering partner's house for just this purpose) to a set of B&W DM604 S3s tomorrow evening! I probably won't get to post any thoughts on them tomorrow but I will be very soon, in case anyone's wondering how they compare.

 

[jcsprankle]

Excellent advice, everyone. Thank you, einsteinjb, for the insight regarding the B&Ws. I have added Paradigm to the list now. I will be auditioning B&W (603 and 604), Axiom (M60), Paradigm (Monitor 9 and 11) and Energy (C-7 and C-9).

I will post my opinions next week.

 

[jcsprankle]

The Axioms sounded great...

I went to audition the Axiom M60 speakers this afternoon. I was also able to listen to the entire 5.1 setup, as the person I visited had the VP150 center, QS8 surrounds and EPS600 subwoofer.

I was very impressed by the M60s in stereo mode (subwoofer disabled). They sounded clean and the musical range was excellent. I was worried that the M60s would be a little bright for me but after listening to them, I realize that my current mains are brighter than the Axioms...

In full 5.1 mode, the speakers were very impressive, especially on the chase scene in Matrix Reloaded.

The best, however, was when my host wiped out the SACD version of Dark Side of the Moon. "Time" was unbelievable. The sound was so enveloping...I was blown away.

The only thing that I noticed during the audition session that I didn't quite like was some resonances during Tool's "Eulogy". I assume this was due to the room and not the speakers but it was distracting. All in all, I was very impressed.

I had planned on also stopping by two shops to listen to the B&Ws and the Paradigms (the Energy's were scratched from the list because they didn't meet my wife's style test). Unfortunately, both stores were closed so I'll have to wait until next week.

I'll let you all know what I think...

 

[Nuglets]

I have a pair of Paradigm Monitor 11's that I use for surround speakers...They are great speakers and sound even better when you have plenty of power for them. Before they were mine my friend owned them and I would have to agree that Pink Floyd is a good way to be impressed by a speaker set. As soon as I listened I was convinced to get a set of Monitor 90P's and buy his 11's.

 

[jcsprankle]

That's good to know. I'm really looking forward to auditioning the Monitor 11s.

 

[nibhaz]

I was just wondering why you are focusing solely on towers as your only options? Not to open a can of worms, but there may be better performance to price options if you considered bookshelves and a new sub. Not that there is anything wrong with towers, I love my DM604 S3s, but that’s because I do a fair share of 2ch listening with out the aid of a sub, which is also why I traded in my 603’s for the 604’s.

 

[jcsprankle]

There are two reasons. First, I am a believer in the idea that you can get greater frequency response and soundstage creation from larger speakers. The second (and perhaps more important), is that my wife HATES speaker stands so the bookshelves would have to sit on the floor (nope). I suppose I could install some shelves or something but I don't think that would fly either.

 

[nibhaz]

Right on man!

I can’t argue with any of those reasons. I’m actually a floorstander fan myself, but I just wanted you to consider all of the options so you could get the maximum return on your investment. Have fun auditioning your final selections!

 

[bsheldon]

I will second what has been said about the B&W 600 series--they are anything but an entry level speaker--just compared to B&W's other lines (800's that run $10,000) they may seem that way. I personally really like them and came very, very close to buying a full system of them--603's l/r, the 600 center and 601's for surrounds. Definatley give them a listen. Also, don't pass up the paradigm monitor series as well. Both of these were in the running for my system. If and I do mean if you can find an AAD dealer in your area give them a listen too--I really liked the towers. I just couldn't build a system I liked out of them. I was ready to buy the B&W 600's but when I moved--they wouldn't fit how I had imagined they would--so I went with Ascend acoustics and actually saved a nice chunk of change in the process. I could no longer do floorstanders. They are not nearly as pretty which actually worked out better, being all black, as it is 90% home theater with a projector, about 90" side to side. 9.9% casual listening--mostly the comedy channel on sirius and some background music. The remaining .1% is that rare occasion when I am in the mood to listen to some quality music--of which I own very little. Good luck in your search

 

[jcsprankle]

B&Ws are still on my short list. Here are the contenders:

B&W 603 and 604 (S3)
Axiom M60
Paradigm Monitor 11
Paradigm Studio 60

I had PSB on the list but there's nowhere around here for me to listen to them. I also had the Energy's but my wife 86'ed the style so there's off the list too.

 

[ironlung]

...listen to them as well (keeping in mind that they may sound different in your actual room).

"...may..." as in 100% chance.

 

[Sheep]

I would add the Energy RC series. They are much more "attractive" the the Older C series.

SheepStar