1 vtf3 mk5 or 2 rsl 10s speedwoofers?

[JBerg]

My theater room is 19x18 with 8 foot ceiling that opens up into a 19x20 with 8 foot ceiling also(basement). Was wondering if I would be better off going with 1 vtf3 mk5 or 2 rsl speedwoofer 10s. What are your thoughts? I know 2 vtf3 mk5 would be better just out of my price range.($1000 price range)

 

[shadyJ]

Two Speedwoofers will get you a flatter response, but you need to know where to put them and how to dial them in. A VTF-3 mk5 will be a lot more powerful and it will dig deeper. I would say if you don't have the tools to measure the room response and place dual subs accordingly, you might as well stick with one powerful sub.

 

[JBerg]

When I did the bass crawl with the sub I have now ( Klipsch sw10) the best bass response I got was on the front and rear right corners.(The only 2 corners that will work in the room) I'm not sure how well that would work on a 2 subwoofer set up with all the bass coming from one side of the room.

 

[KEW]

I think the best choice depends on your usage.
For music, I would go with the speedwoofers, for HT, I'd go with the HSU.

 

[KEW]

Two Speedwoofers will get you a flatter response, but you need to know where to put them and how to dial them in. A VTF-3 mk5 will be a lot more powerful and it will dig deeper. I would say if you don't have the tools to measure the room response and place dual subs accordingly, you might as well stick with one powerful sub.

I thought I had read that for two subs, you could do the sub crawl and position two subs in the 1st and 2nd best locations per the sub crawl.
Is this a viable approach?

 

[shadyJ]

I thought I had read that for two subs, you could do the sub crawl and position two subs in the 1st and 2nd best locations per the sub crawl.
Is this a viable approach?

I wouldn't count on that working well. The best place for two subs are where their in-room responses compliment each other for the flattest overall response. That isn't something that can really be done by ear. Sub crawl only works for one sub, and even then I wouldn't want to rely on that method of finding optimal placement without verifying it with measurement.

 

[KEW]

I wouldn't count on that working well. The best place for two subs are where their in-room responses compliment each other for the flattest overall response. That isn't something that can really be done by ear. Sub crawl only works for one sub, and even then I wouldn't want to rely on that method of finding optimal placement without verifying it with measurement.

Agreed, but measurement is not. realistically, the world we live in!
Maybe here among "Audioholics", but among the population of AVR owners, I feel certain that measurement represents less than one percent!
On the question between 2 RSL's vs 1 Hsu, I think the bigger point is the RSL's are made for music (and will do a good job but not run nearly as deep/strong for HT special effects) and the Hsu is made for HT (and will do a good job, but not be quite as smooth for music).
IME a second sub has made a worthwhile improvement before measurement - although there is no question that measurement is the way to really do it right.

I was just surprised when you said a second sub is not beneficial unless you use measurement to set it up!

Quite honestly, when I have added a second sub, the room layouts only allowed for 3 or 4 options of where to add the second sub, so instead of doing the crawl, I just used trial and error to see which yielded the best result. I was probably lucky, but I have not heard the second sub make things worse!
Maybe it is not so important as I think, but before XT 32 (which delay matches the second sub to the first prior to EQ),I ruled out having one sub near and another far so as to try to maintain the most accurate attacks and delays. That limited my placement options more than maybe I should have?

What are your thoughts on one near and one far without the means to sync them for the listening position?
On the one hand, the last thing I want to do is give up some of the Accruacy of attack and add overhang from having one sub with more delay than the other! OTOH, when I listen to the sound of the subs by themselves, there is nothing that sounds like a "crisp attack"! The perceived precision of the attacks seems to all be from higher frequency content!

 

[Reckel]

My theater room is 19x18 with 8 foot ceiling that opens up into a 19x20 with 8 foot ceiling also(basement). Was wondering if I would be better off going with 1 vtf3 mk5 or 2 rsl speedwoofer 10s. What are your thoughts? I know 2 vtf3 mk5 would be better just out of my price range.($1000 price range)

Get vtf3 now and another one later when you’ve got the money, you won’t regret it. I just got two of them 3 weeks ago, they’re a$$ kickers

 

[shadyJ]

Agreed, but measurement is not. realistically, the world we live in!
Maybe here among "Audioholics", but among the population of AVR owners, I feel certain that measurement represents less than one percent!
On the question between 2 RSL's vs 1 Hsu, I think the bigger point is the RSL's are made for music (and will do a good job but not run nearly as deep/strong for HT special effects) and the Hsu is made for HT (and will do a good job, but not be quite as smooth for music).
IME a second sub has made a worthwhile improvement before measurement - although there is no question that measurement is the way to really do it right.

I was just surprised when you said a second sub is not beneficial unless you use measurement to set it up!

Quite honestly, when I have added a second sub, the room layouts only allowed for 3 or 4 options of where to add the second sub, so instead of doing the crawl, I just used trial and error to see which yielded the best result. I was probably lucky, but I have not heard the second sub make things worse!
Maybe it is not so important as I think, but before XT 32 (which delay matches the second sub to the first prior to EQ),I ruled out having one sub near and another far so as to try to maintain the most accurate attacks and delays. That limited my placement options more than maybe I should have?

What are your thoughts on one near and one far without the means to sync them for the listening position?
On the one hand, the last thing I want to do is give up some of the Accruacy of attack and add overhang from having one sub with more delay than the other! OTOH, when I listen to the sound of the subs by themselves, there is nothing that sounds like a "crisp attack"! The perceived precision of the attacks seems to all be from higher frequency content!

I don't think that the distance difference of having a subwoofer near-field and having one far-field is going to be the specific cause of any serious audible problems. I think you may be putting too much emphasis in the time domain in low frequencies. To illustrate, compare what happens to group delay when you move a subwoofer from an outdoor measurement to an indoor measurement. It turns pretty ugly, but that doesn't mean it will sound terrible. What may actually have a more significantly degrading impact in low-frequency time domain is the use of all kinds of filters and equalization. If you are worried about time domain problems, stay away from heavy equalization. Try to get a smooth response via multiple subs and bass traps alone.

You are right that making measurements isn't very practical for most people, but there really isn't any other path to great bass, sadly. Here is the thing about adding a second sub: you could actually make the response worse if there are conflicting phase issues. You could also be creating new nulls and peaks that is worse than the original response. But most people wouldn't hear that right away, especially if they just assume that two subs will sound better than one. They will hear what they expect to hear, regardless of the reality of the response. IF you do some common sense things, you can set up multiple subs without measuring that will probably yield a better response than what can be had with a single sub, but without measurements, there is no way to be sure.

Regarding the musicality of the speedwoofer vs the movie strength of the VTF-3 mk5, I very much disagree. I am not saying that the Speedwoofer is a bad sub, but the VTF-3 mk5 is likely going to be far superior in music applications, but that is what you should expect from its >2x cost and larger size/beefier specs. Far more extended response in both upper and lower bass, far lower distortion at any SPL level, more linear response overall. Two Speedwoofers might have an advantage in that they can achieve a flatter in-room response, and the frequency response is the most significant factor in sound quality in bass frequencies, but that assumes that the user is willing to put in the effort in ensure that result.

 

[Reckel]

Agreed, but measurement is not. realistically, the world we live in!
Maybe here among "Audioholics", but among the population of AVR owners, I feel certain that measurement represents less than one percent!
On the question between 2 RSL's vs 1 Hsu, I think the bigger point is the RSL's are made for music (and will do a good job but not run nearly as deep/strong for HT special effects) and the Hsu is made for HT (and will do a good job, but not be quite as smooth for music).
IME a second sub has made a worthwhile improvement before measurement - although there is no question that measurement is the way to really do it right.

I was just surprised when you said a second sub is not beneficial unless you use measurement to set it up!

Quite honestly, when I have added a second sub, the room layouts only allowed for 3 or 4 options of where to add the second sub, so instead of doing the crawl, I just used trial and error to see which yielded the best result. I was probably lucky, but I have not heard the second sub make things worse!
Maybe it is not so important as I think, but before XT 32 (which delay matches the second sub to the first prior to EQ),I ruled out having one sub near and another far so as to try to maintain the most accurate attacks and delays. That limited my placement options more than maybe I should have?

What are your thoughts on one near and one far without the means to sync them for the listening position?
On the one hand, the last thing I want to do is give up some of the Accruacy of attack and add overhang from having one sub with more delay than the other! OTOH, when I listen to the sound of the subs by themselves, there is nothing that sounds like a "crisp attack"! The perceived precision of the attacks seems to all be from higher frequency content!

I just ran into this with one in front right corner and one rear right corner. If you email hsu, Kevin will tell you to set them up like that and that’s what I tried. It sounded good with a lot of impact but to me I could hear the bass coming from the right, it wasn’t spread out throughout the room. I posted all this and was getting some advice on it and thought you may have had some for me but I’d have to check.

I ended up moving them back up front. To me they sounded better and the bass was spread out throughout the room. The reason I tried one behind n one up front was because the music lacked a little when up front with bass. That is, if I sat normal but if I leaned forward the bass sounded like it should. One in rear n one in front right took care of it but it sounded like the bass came from the right side of room.

I’ve never listened to one by itself but I would assume with only one, that’s going to come down to the best placement in room. Even with them back up front they sound great, especially for movies. Music may lack a little but it doesn’t bug me anymore. That’s just how my room is n I’ll compromise on that. I’m not gonna lean 6in forward constantly to hear what little I’m lacking. They’re great subs and my old subs are no comparison

 

[KEW]

I just ran into this with one in front right corner and one rear right corner. If you email hsu, Kevin will tell you to set them up like that and that’s what I tried. It sounded good with a lot of impact but to me I could hear the bass coming from the right, it wasn’t spread out throughout the room. I posted all this and was getting some advice on it and thought you may have had some for me but I’d have to check.

I ended up moving them back up front. To me they sounded better and the bass was spread out throughout the room. The reason I tried one behind n one up front was because the music lacked a little when up front with bass. That is, if I sat normal but if I leaned forward the bass sounded like it should. One in rear n one in front right took care of it but it sounded like the bass came from the right side of room.

I’ve never listened to one by itself but I would assume with only one, that’s going to come down to the best placement in room. Even with them back up front they sound great, especially for movies. Music may lack a little but it doesn’t bug me anymore. That’s just how my room is n I’ll compromise on that. I’m not gonna lean 6in forward constantly to hear what little I’m lacking. They’re great subs and my old subs are no comparison

I really don't think it is this simple, but I would have to move both subs 6" forward into the room to see if it moves the sweetspot back the 6" that you are leaning forward! It is easy enough to give it a shot if that is a reasonable position for the subs.
If it does work, tell you wife you'll let her use them as plant stands (for artificial plants - no water) if she lets you keep them sticking out 6"!

 

[speakerman39]

A buddy of mine on another forum rants and raves about his RSL 10S subs. According to him, they really pack a punch and are very good w/HT and music applications. Of course, every room is different. Honestly, this is a hard one inmho. However, the OP will be hard pressed to go wrong with either one. Personally, I would opt for dual RSL 10S's. Best wishes to the OP!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Danzilla31]

A buddy of mine on another forum rants and raves about his RSL 10S subs. According to him, they really pack a punch and are very good w/HT and music applications. Of course, every room is different. Honestly, this is a hard one inmho. However, the OP will be hard pressed to go wrong with either one. Personally, I would opt for dual RSL 10S's. Best wishes to the OP!


Cheers,

Phil

I own an RSL speedwoofer. For its size a 10 inch driver. And it's size in volume it's a small box it does pack a punch and goes pretty deep. For a 10 incher in a small box. It can only realistically do so much though you can't beat the law of physics. Is it an overperformer for its size? Oh HELL yeah. Can it outperform that beautiful brawny beastly HSU which is double its cost dwarfs it in size and has an amp twice as powerful? Either in music or movies? Oh HELL NO. As one person stated buy one now and save up for the second you won't regret it.

I think I got so excited about getting dual subs in the past I was guilty of trying to speed it up too fast. It's far better to get one superior sub right off the bat and then buy a second one down the road. If I had to do it all over again that is.

FYI RSL is coming out with a new sub to go with the CG5 line. It's supposed to be a big boy and can play in the deep waters that's what Howard told me. Supposed to be coming out in the spring I think of next year. Man it's a great time to be an audioholic

 

[Danzilla31]

My theater room is 19x18 with 8 foot ceiling that opens up into a 19x20 with 8 foot ceiling also(basement). Was wondering if I would be better off going with 1 vtf3 mk5 or 2 rsl speedwoofer 10s. What are your thoughts? I know 2 vtf3 mk5 would be better just out of my price range.($1000 price range)

I didn't realize that that theater room opened up to that other area that is a lottof air to fill I definetly think getting the bigger HSU subs would be the better route even if you have to save up for the second

 

[speakerman39]

I own an RSL speedwoofer. For its size a 10 inch driver. And it's size in volume it's a small box it does pack a punch and goes pretty deep. For a 10 incher in a small box. It can only realistically do so much though you can't beat the law of physics. Is it an overperformer for its size? Oh HELL yeah. Can it outperform that beautiful brawny beastly HSU which is double its cost dwarfs it in size and has an amp twice as powerful? Either in music or movies? Oh HELL NO. As one person stated buy one now and save up for the second you won't regret it.

I think I got so excited about getting dual subs in the past I was guilty of trying to speed it up too fast. It's far better to get one superior sub right off the bat and then buy a second one down the road. If I had to do it all over again that is.

FYI RSL is coming out with a new sub to go with the CG5 line. It's supposed to be a big boy and can play in the deep waters that's what Howard told me. Supposed to be coming out in the spring I think of next year. Man it's a great time to be an audioholic

Dan I agree with you here. At one time I owned (4) of the SVS SB12-NSD's. Prior to that I owned dual PSA S1500's. Although the SB12-NSD's sounded great, I much preferred the dual S1500's. I also agree that it is best to buy a better sub now and save up for a 2nd down the road. Likewise, I have also owned the Hsu VTF 3.3 and the ULS 15 MK2 subs. Both were awesome. In fact, the ULS 15 MK2 is my favorite out of all of the subs I have ever owned. We are very much in agreement.


Cheers,

Phil