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I loved URC remotes and painstakingly programming them to make them easy for the household to use. I transitioned to Harmony and was fine with their middle tier models. Then I bought an LG OLED and one hour with the Magic Remote and I was hooked. I re-wired everything to make the LG the new...

Yup... The cable elevators make me doubt everything else.

Also, for the few where this is an issue, the X4000 offers XT32 at a better chassis size than the 818: less than 15" deep. I looked at those 8XX Onkyo but they are simply too big for my space.

That X4000 is a beast of a receiver at its price point. I'm very much looking forward to the full review!

Go for the XT32-enabled option every time...

This is the problem I see with the market for this amp. I have wished upon a star that AVR manufacturers would put pre-amps further down in their product lines but no dice...

I picked up on that one too. Very good thread.

Would it have made more sense to compare the SR5007 to the 2313 and the SR6007 to the 3313 in the first place? It seems this would have been better than knocking the Marantz for being more expensive that its "Denon counterpart" and then noting that it's features compare better to the next Denon...

I came to the exact same conclusion. The bang-for-the-buck winner is still the 709. I love Onkyo, and own one, but QC issues there still scare me. My only issue with the 818 is that the 8XX-series Onkyos get so much bigger! It's nice (beefy amps) but I can't fit them into my cabinet. I...

There is no forthcoming 4313 this year, apparently. There's only the 4520 coming this year, which is expected to be much more expensive than a current 43XX version would have been. The 4311 in many people's opinions is still quite the value, despite being a couple generations old.

I could be wrong but I think the point he's making is that once you have two, you can sell the one you don't want. So, the price for a module should be compared not only to the price of a fully upgraded unit, but the difference between the cost of an upgraded unit and the amount you can sell...

I can't remember the cost of the modules exactly (can someone shed some light here?) but I seem tor recall them to be expensive enough to nearly offset the benefit of starting with a cheaper receiver manufacturer and fully upgrading every three years.

Very true...

Can someone help me understand why neither the 717 nor the 818 includes trigger outs for zone one? It's so frustrating that'd I'd have to jerry-rig some kinda alternative for automatically switching on my (eventually-coming) amps when there are trigger outs right on the unit.

I don't know what it is but, other than my PS3, I feel like I'd never buy any electronics from Sony...

It's even more bazaar since the 818 jumps all the way up to Audyssey MultEQ XT32. Last year's 709 was a beast. I can't recommend the 717 with 2EQ to anybody.

Never really been a fan of built-in powered subs in towers but, to each their own...

I love this option - so many people just need to try it with speakers in the right place and experience the difference. They can pursue quality later.

That page sums it up pretty well... true, true. $5K for an 18" box sub. I'm so interested in what their "ID Platform" prices will shake out to be.

They need a better way of displaying the prices on the website...