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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    I missed this the first time. If you do a measurement in REW, then export it as an FRD file, then import it into MSO using File, Import Plot-Only Measurement, there is absolutely, positively, no f'ing way that MSO will show a different result than REW. Anyone making such a claim is wrong.
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    If need be, you can rename the MSO sub channels (to e.g. match the channel names you picked in the miniDSP software) by selecting the channel node in MSO, then pressing F2. This opens up an in-place edit control, much like editing folder and file names in Windows File Explorer. Here's an example.
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    If you make the difference between the maximum and minimum y-axis values (the y-axis span) quite large, both REW and MSO will set the dB per vertical division (which I've abbreviated dB/div) to 10 or even more. But when it's that large, it can tend to make a response look better than it really...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    A few random, unrelated thoughts came to mind: 1) The last time someone had a problem in the big MSO thread with the final measurements in REW not matching MSO predictions, it was caused by a failure to use the acoustic timing reference when making the original REW measurements. I thought I'd...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    If the default sample rate value of 48 kHz was in effect when the biquad files were exported, the filters will be bonkers for the HD (but okay for the non-HD 2x4). To maintain a consistent filter frequency response with changes in sample rate, any system using digital filters (be they biquads...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    Also, in in MSO's Tools, Application Options, choose "Hardware" and ensure that the sample rate is what the 2x4 HD uses, which is 96 kHz. If this was incorrect, you'll need to re-export the biquad files from MSO and re-import them into the miniDSP software. The maximum biquad count for input...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    Yes, the before and after data look suspiciously similar. This suggests that the miniDSP filters might be in an unexpected state. One thing you can try is in MSO, create a new graph and add the three sub channel frequency responses to it. To do this, you choose "Filter Channels" under "Data"...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    If any of these delays come up zero, it's means the optimizer has "hit the stops" and is a sign that allowing negative delays is likely to improve things. The long optimization times suggested in the documentation can be relaxed a bit, because I modified the code to use multi-threading in the...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    The reasons for this craziness have to do with optimizer convergence. For sub-only configurations, the only aspect of sub delays that matters is the relative delay between subs. So if you had an optimum configuration and added 1 msec delay to all subs, it would still be optimum. If you add...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    There's a section in the documentation that talks about restrictions on delays for sub-only configurations. For sub-only configurations with N subs, there can be only N-1 delays. One channel gets no delay, while the others get positive delays. If you have one sub that's more distant from the...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    You created a "subs+mains" configuration, which requires mains measurements to run the optimization. You'll need to create a "sub only" configuration. I see you just posted about not being able to add a delay block to the 3rd sub, so I assume you've got "subs only" vs. "subs + mains" figured...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    Clicking on the camera icon just above the left y-axis in REW does a capture of the graph that you can save to a file.
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    I think that's a fair statement, yes. MSO can determine the sub distance in your AVR (or rather the amount you need to increase or decrease the sub distance from the value that was used in the measurement). This only works with MSO "subs + mains" configurations, though, not "sub only"...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    Let me preface my comments by saying I'm a two-channel guy and have never used Audyssey, so I don't know all its ins and outs. But I'm aware of some of its properties. It appears that you're in a kind of limbo state with regard to Audyssey. You first ran it with two subs, run independently...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    Let me answer your second question first. You should configure your AVR to the single-sub mode. This affects the configuration of your miniDSP. Do you have the 2x4 HD? If so, you'll need to configure its input routing matrix. In the 2x4 HD manual, this is described in section 6.4.3...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    If you're new to REW, it would be a good idea to download the latest beta, which means signing up at AV Nirvana. The latest one as of Sept 19, 2019 is 5.20 beta 24. This will ensure the REW UI looks the same to you as it does to me.
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    I got to thinking this might be a good "MSO beginner's thread." The big MSO thread is cluttered with a lot of information, some of which is now obsolete because of changes that have been made to MSO over the years. I can link to this thread in the MSO documentation. I'm thinking I can, on a...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    Take your time. If you're unsure about anything at all, just ask. That way, anyone else just starting out who might be reading this could benefit from the Q&A.
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    Yes. Here's the general approach. 1) In REW, measure the frequency response from each sub to each listening position using the REW acoustic timing reference feature. For N subs at M listening positions, that will be N * M measurements. Make sure all the filters in the miniDSP are cleared...
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    MSO- Multi Sub Optimizer Beginners Thread

    That's an interesting point. Back in 2006, Todd Welti and Allan Devantier of Harman published a classic article in the AES Journal called "Low-Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers". This introduced the esoteric subject of multiple-subwoofer optimization, for which they provided a...
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