HDMI CEC 4K Home Theater System Help

[nefarious]

After being totally frustrated and being led down the Garden Path by sales staff just looking for a quick commission perhaps you can help me please and thank you
I presently have a late 2011Panasonic TC-P50ST30 50 inch 3D Plasma TV that also has HDMI ARC. Also it is connected to the same vintage Panasonic Blueray 3D DVD player to enable Netflix. Also being connected to the HDMI ARC port I can turn both devices on and off with just the TV remote and access all apps on the Bluray through the TV.
As many know the speakers in these sets are beyond horrible to the point of being good for 2 things:
Nothing and F@#%all!
Now after all these years of suffering with the treble turned up and bass in the negatives due to buzzing and razzing I have decided I want a suitable home theater system BUT like others I know mentioned compatibility with the Panasonic and suitable for later upgrades AND not requiring 3-4 remotes! I contacted Panasonic and finally found one individual that actually knew something instead of a Monkey reading from a google screen. My set is HDMI ARC and Panasonics Viera and this fellow mentioned ARC became HDMI CEC and now 4K from 2016 and later.
Panasonic home theater systems are now discontinued in Canada but not elsewhere so I have to choose a different brand!
What are my options and are there Home Theater systems that can be connected to a network using an Ethernet connection that can handle apps such as Kodi and Netflix as a work around for an older set with limited apps? Limited requiring the DVD Bluray being needed and I would prefer a very good Home Theater system over a sound bar!

 

[markw]

I don't really understand what you're after but yes, most internet capable AVR's can connect to the your LAN using an ethernet cable. ...and wireless as well.

 

[Leemix]

Are you looking for a home theater in a box type or a receiver + speakers etc?

Also HDMI Audio Return Channel is separate from the CEC control signals (i dont remember exactly what CEC is short for) and CEC often go by different names for different brands and also how they implement it is not always the same which makes it more difficult for the consumer. 4k is a family of video signals and doesnt really have anything to do with arc/cec.


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[nefarious]

Actually from what I was told Consumer Electronics Control CEC is now a standard format like OBD2 is for automotive.
wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Control
Now here is a perfect example of exactly what I'm looking for BUT don't forget what I mentioned earlier
Panasonic_SC_BTT195
What did I mention earlier? Panasonic has discontinued Home Theater Systems in Canada but it is available in other countries. NOW what do other manufacturers have available that is a more modern equivalent of this Panasonic SC-BTT195 from 2012? As mentioned earlier my late 2011 Panasonic has ARC the forerunner of CEC and CEC allows multiple devices to be all run off of one device through communicating via CEC or in my case HDMI ARC. Also these more advanced Home Theater Systems have internet capabilities. I can get one of these used off of eeevilPay but this would be from the United States and looking on FarceBook is a Shitshow because many sellers put ABSOLUTELY no details down including the stupid Make and Model so I can at least check the specs! Home Theater for sale just doesn't cut it! That is of course if they even know what a Home Theater System is? Some throw a basic audio home stereo in the same category and now we wade through these as well. I could use the same thing through the optical cable adaptor having to manually turn on/off my Technics home stereo from 1978 or a lousy ghetto blaster. There are now HDMI CEC 4K theaters out there that will work on older sets like mine and if I get one it may as well be modern for later upgrades to my TV. I could also post links for more info but I'm not allowed.

 

[nefarious]

I forgot to mention I'm totally clueless on what an AVR is other than what we used to stick in a Sat Reciever for emulation

 

[lovinthehd]

I forgot to mention I'm totally clueless on what an AVR is other than what we used to stick in a Sat Reciever for emulation

Avr is an audio video receiver...

 

[markw]

Here;s what CEC is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Control

AFAICT, it turns on and off ancillary devices connected to a nexus (an AVR) via HDMI. It sometimes outsmarts itself. When I turn on my Vizio TV and want to watch the cable box, (which was the last thing I was watching) sometimes it also turns on my Sony 4k player.(which is also plugged into the AVR) and switches the AVR to that input. Sometimes, it recognizes my Roku, which is also plugged into the AVR, and switches to that input.

So, have to go to the AVR and select the desired input.

Yeah, it works, but sometimes it outsmarts itself.

Oh, an AVR, or Audio Video Receiver, is most likely the nexus of a modern home theater system, into which all sources are routed and from there, routed to a TV,

 

[nefarious]

Thanks for all of your help! After reading this I realized what I'm looking for is an AVR or in reality a complete Home Theater system with an AVR! Now there is mention of HTIB home theater in box systems? I guess I need an AVR with multiple HDMI inputs, ARC or CEC and 4K capabilities for future capabilities after all TV won't last forever. Given this what do you find is best and worst? Brands I have never heard before such as Onkyo and of course Yami, Pioneer, Panasonic (not avail other than older used) etc. and I would assume the AVR is the one that gives full internet/network capability as well and hopefully better than my Pan that doesn't have Netflix or Kodi capabilities. It's almost to the point of using an older but fairly good computer for an entertainment center with a basic or older limited home theater system as Win10 has a Netflix app and Ubuntu has a Kodi app that works well. It wasn't hard for me to set up and get going at all.

 

[ParadiseSound]

I will try to help you by going back to when I first set up my system to correct that horrible sound coming from my tv speakers. That was in 2013 and I had no technical knowledge at the time. I didn’t have a Panasonic tv, I had a Sony and am in the US. I bought a Pioneer AVR and researched for 3 front speakers to connect to it, left right and center. I followed instructions to connect speakers to AVR and then ran an HDMI cable from the HDMI ARC port on the AVR to the same on the TV. In the initial setup on both the tv and AVR, I turned on HDMI CEC. To watch tv, I changed the input to whichever HDMI ARC port I had plugged the AVR into.
If the tv is a smart tv that you have connected to the internet, you can select your APP, like Netflix, Amazon Video, etc that way. If your tv is not a smart tv, get a device that is, like a Roku, Blu-ray Player, Appletv, connect this device to the internet, connect it to an HDMI input on your AVR. You can then turn your tv on, your AVR on, your device connected to the internet and select the APP you want to watch, Netflix, etc. My setup works by using the tv remote to turn everything on (because I set everything to turn “HDMI CEC On”) when I power up the tv but I do have to then switch to using the AVR remote to select my internet device to switch input to my internet device. You could get one of those universal remotes and program it to be able to use one remote for everything but I haven’t.
As far as 4K goes, just get the AVR that has 4K passthru so you will be ready when you get a 4K tv but without a 4K tv, you won’t have 4K capabilities on anything. I hope all this info helps.

 

[Leemix]

Make sure a reciever is HDCP 2.2 compliant, or you will not be avle to get most of the 4k content through it. Recievers from the last 3-4 years are ok but good to make really sure because a 4k sticker or so doesnt actually say anything and the earliest gear that was sold as 4k didnt have hdcp2.2 and therefore arent avle to show or pass through protected content which is most everything (bluray,netflix etc.)


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[nefarious]

Again thanks a bunch! I tried to present things as clear as possible with the limited knowledge instead of this thread and how it began
://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/audio-terms-bs-and-not-bs.114254/
And it would appear with what I presented and what replies I got things are turning around.
My present Panasonic TC-P50ST30 isn't 4K but at least it is 3D HD with amazing resolution playing Bluray and another bonus is HDMI-ARC and is a Smart TV but with older limited capabilities. ParadiseSound I can access the Internet but there is no Netflix app avail so I use my Pan Blueray DVD that has this through the HDMI ARC and I can turn both on using the Pan TC-P50 remote. ParadiseSound how would you rate your Pioneer AVR? I see a few of them for sale and they are also 4K and also a so called high rated is Onkyo especially AVR with numerous HDMI ports and expandibility especially in a home theater setup. There are numerous Home theater systems for sale that are used including a Panasonic SC-BTT195 5.1Ch 1000Watt Smart Network 3D Bluray but this is around 2012 vintage and the app and capability situation might be limited due to this. Tempting at $155 USD plus shipping but the poor and stingy pay twice. Also many of the Home Theater sys are obviously out dated junk being dumped.

 

[nefarious]

Also I assumed (a dangerous word) that I could just hook up speakers to the 20 watt output of my Pan TV not realizing they force us into needing an amplifier when 20 watts would be more than enough for some basic external speakers which would be better than the crap inside.

 

[Leemix]

Also I assumed (a dangerous word) that I could just hook up speakers to the 20 watt output of my Pan TV not realizing they force us into needing an amplifier when 20 watts would be more than enough for some basic external speakers which would be better than the crap inside.

Those tv audio circuits and amplifiers are probably very specialized to work with the speakers in the tv so might not do well at all on normal speakers and would possibly burn out very easily.


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[Leemix]

What budget do you have for this?


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[nefarious]

Here is a great example of what works BUT is most certainly obsolete in today's standards:
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-SC-BTT195-5-1-Channel-1000-Watt-Speakers/dp/B0078GCLU6

Leemix regarding the budget($500-$1000+ is what I have rolling around between my ears) I guess what is great, has many options such as the required and necessary ports I.E. HDMI (equiv. Or better) can be used for Internet accessability and apps without difficulty, 4K or better for future upgrades and expandable or upgradeable without much difficulty. The above example shows what will work somewhat well but is from 2012/14 and some issues are reported including YouTube etc. but is a great example of what I'm looking for. Used are about $150+ and shipping and new varies on Amazon.com for about $600 or less. That price on Amazon warrants looking for a more modern alternative that can do much more for perhaps the same $ more or less. I was concidering one on eeevilPay for $155 plus shipping as a possibility but this is working with limited knowledge.
Also one thought of the ePay unit is we have a set of speakers to work with but there are other systems out there that are out dated with limited use but have a great set of speakers.
This TV (TC-P50ST30) has HDMI, HDMI-ARC and an optical audio port as well and yes the so called Viera but this is just a manufacturers name.
I will throw these ideas out here as I obtain more info found here. Sort of stabbing around but like others mentioned there is much jargon and limited info that has to be found. As it is one talking head I spoke with where I purchased the Panasonic from said he sold many of the sets I have was totally unaware it had HDMI-ARC!! I said I can crank it around on the stand and look at two ports, one HDMI, and one HDMI-ARC! Now was the time to move on and gather REAL information so here I am.

 

[nefarious]

Make sure a reciever is HDCP 2.2 compliant, or you will not be avle to get most of the 4k content through it. Recievers from the last 3-4 years are ok but good to make really sure because a 4k sticker or so doesnt actually say anything and the earliest gear that was sold as 4k didnt have hdcp2.2 and therefore arent avle to show or pass through protected content which is most everything (bluray,netflix etc.)


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And thanks for this info!! I did a Google regarding this and quite a bit pops up! My TV isn't 4K but that doesn't mean I won't have one in the future! Also there are a number of very reasonably priced AVR that have this and has been around since 2014. Also if the AVR isn't capable a 4K TV can't make use of 4K.

 

[Leemix]

Unfortunatly there is no fully future proofing in this hobby but one way to somewhat futureproof and also get better sound is to get a reciever and speakers +sub. That way the reciever is the only thing that really needs changing when new stuff becomes neccessary. For low cost, home theater in a box is an inexpensive option thats easy to use and takes up less space, but its usually limiting in many ways.


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[nefarious]

Leemix, markw and ParadiseSound what are you currently using? As suggested earlier I guess piecemeal is probably the best way to go and as an easy start finding an outdated Home Theater system with great speakers at typical very low prices is a good? option to get started. Also at a glance you can probably tell what is a very good AVR. Let me guess again, the AVR is a stand alone whereas a HTIB is the reciever, network interface, and amp all in one?

 

[Leemix]

Leemix, markw and ParadiseSound what are you currently using? As suggested earlier I guess piecemeal is probably the best way to go and as an easy start finding an outdated Home Theater system with great speakers at typical very low prices is a good? option to get started. Also at a glance you can probably tell what is a very good AVR. Let me guess again, the AVR is a stand alone whereas a HTIB is the reciever, network interface, and amp all in one?

HTIB is often basically a reciever sometimes with an integrated dvd or blu-ray player and speakers including a (sub)woofer.
An AudioVideoReciever is a preamplifier/processor and amplifiers in one. They usually have a network interface now but for sound only so no netflix or such, that is usually handled by external devices like appltv/roku/blurayplayer(connected with HDMI to reciever) or with a new smart tv(sound through AudioReturnChannel to the reciever)
A good option is to buy 2 (and possibly the center) decent speakers(not HTIB ones) and a reciever and start with that. Then later add a sub and surround speakers. This is generally more expensive then a HTIB option in total but a lot can be bought used or with a good deal or open box from reputable vendors.
It all comes down to what you really want and want to spend your money on. A HTIB system can give a lot for the money you spend also if thats something you will be happy with.

My system is far from inexpensive. Its made of quite pricy but not insanely expensive separates. Main bits are the processor Marantz av8805, amp Parasound a31 for fronts and an old parasound for the surrounds. Audio Physic Scorpio 25 main speakers and AP Orea center. Old Jamo concert 8 as surrounds. 3x Arendal Sound sub1 subs. I live in Norway so we have some different gear/versions here compared to the US but a lot is the same also.


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[markw]

I use a Marantz SR-5011.

A Vizio 55" 4k TV is connected via it's ARC port, to the ARC enabled monitor port on the Marantz.

A Sony UBP-X800 4k Blu-Ray player is plugged into the Marantz vis HDMI. When I turn this on, the Marantz automatically selects it's input to that.

Also, I have a Roku 4k stick plugged into another HDMI port on the Marantz, obviously via HDMI.

Finally, I have a cable box (Suddenlink) connected to it, via HDMI, as wall.

I use the cable TV remote. One device selection on the cable remote (cbl/sat) selection turns on the cable box, Another selection (TV) turns on the monitor and a source.

Now, my rub with CEC is that usually I'll want to watch cable. Usually this works if that was the last source before it was powered down,

But, what sometimes happens is that CEC may turn on the BRP and go to that source, Sometimes, it'll select the Roku, which is always powered on. Sometimes, it'll be a good boy and go right to the cable.

All I have to do to correct this is select the proper source on the receiver. It's not a deal killer but it can be a pain in the tuchus,
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