Living Room Center Channel

fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Well since this is related to the center channel build I'll dump this in here. Weighed my options between new table saw, track saw, circular saw guide/extension, or new fence and wound up here.



 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
I wish I had the garage space for a table saw. That's my reason for going with track saws - although they make dealing with sheet goods effortless! It's just a pain to get perfectly square cuts, and they are not easily repeatable.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
But get yourself some dust extraction! I also use an overhead air cleaner - they REALLY cut down on the dust collecting on everything.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
I wish I had the garage space for a table saw. That's my reason for going with track saws - although they make dealing with sheet goods effortless! It's just a pain to get perfectly square cuts, and they are not easily repeatable.
This is really the first time I've had enough space to set this up semi-permanently. There was awhile there when I was considering switching over to a track saw. I'm pretty excited to get this fence put on, I only ordered it like two years ago.

But get yourself some dust extraction! I also use an overhead air cleaner - they REALLY cut down on the dust collecting on everything.
I use a shop vac connected to the dust extraction, but the basement is horribly dusty anyways. I was thinking the same thing and have been looking at a few different models. Looking at the Wen and a Jet, but open to other suggestions.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
This is really the first time I've had enough space to set this up semi-permanently. There was awhile there when I was considering switching over to a track saw. I'm pretty excited to get this fence put on, I only ordered it like two years ago.

I use a shop vac connected to the dust extraction, but the basement is horribly dusty anyways. I was thinking the same thing and have been looking at a few different models. Looking at the Wen and a Jet, but open to other suggestions.
You have to shop air cleaners by the cubic feet of the space they operate in. I have the Shop Fox W1830 and it works very well in my space. You have to position it to be able to rotate the air with in the space, any good instruction manual should show that in the diagram.

But don't necessarily shop by brand, as that model is resold under any of the names you mentioned, as with pretty much any size model you choose!

I like the washable inner filter, as that cuts down on expendables. And then I just search for any old paper filter that fits!
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
After years working on construction sites, I just got used to working outdoors. So now, all my stationary tools have wheels and I set up shop outdoors for the day. I have a hundred yr old oak out back that allows just enough shade. Love leaving the airborne bits outside.

The other thing is daylight. The notion of not casting shadows on straightedges and other marking tools is another benefit.

Finally, finish work. Water the lawn a day or two ahead and manage dust free varnish coats. I noticed this when working on boats having to put multiple coats of spar varnish. That other than occasional bug doing the backstroke in it, very little frustration with regard to dust. A multi-coat varnish finish is really tough to beat. Trying to achieve this indoors in anything less than a washed out pro finish booth, is an exercise in futility.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
For an air cleaner, one important consideration that often goes overlooked is the exhaust velocity/dispersion.
Many of these units blast a narrow stream out at high enough velocities to stir up dust that has already settled, which is not helping your lungs! Settled dust is safe dust until it gets air-born.
Check to see how focused the exhaust is, the less focused, the less velocity. Also some units have much bigger ports which should reduce the focus/velocity of the airstream.
I discovered this problem after I had bought my 2 air cleaners (generally you want to be pushing the air in a circle around your entire shop, so the second unit helps ensure "global" circulation instead of the circuit only happening in a small section), so I adapted as best as I could by buying a third and running them on low when I was in the shop. When I left the shop, I would turn them on high with a 2 hour timer. Fine dust has a "float time" of about 30 minutes in still air and you should be turning over the volume of air in your shop about 6-8 times per hour.
Be sure to mount them where you can reach the controls. I think most have R/C's these days, which is worth the extra cost in many situations.

Here is a basic guide to air filtration/cleaning (but no mention of the fact you can stir up dust).
http://www.rockler.com/how-to/woodshop-air-filtration/

With that said, if your situation allows and when the weather allows (not 5 degrees outside), set up a cross flow and use a heavy duty shrouded window fan to draw air across the shop and outside (think of an attic fan for functionality). If you can do sanding and move other dust-making operations near the window fan, getting the dust completely out of the shop is always best. Same is true of dust collector; if you can set a valve to redirect to outside when weather is warm enough. Just remember, the make-up air has to come from somewhere. Your wife won't be happy if that somewhere is the chimney upstairs and you are drawing ashes and soot into the house. Lastly, if you can exhaust outside, consider where your exhaust window is located. There will be an accrual of wood dust on the plants (or whatever) outside that window (especially after rain or morning dew). A quick spray down with a garden hose will take care of it, but that is probably not something you want to add to your shop routine every time you use it. WAF matters, but if you only need to hose it down for family/friend gatherings, that is not too great of a burden.
Sorry, I may have rambled a bit too far, but wanted you to get a full picture.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I should add, please take this seriously.
I started a bit too late and I guess my sinuses (or maybe it is wood allergies?) are compromised because it doesn't take much wood dust and my nose gets congested and I usually get a sinus infection.
If I need to do some woodworking, I now have to look like this:

It does the job, but takes time to put on/take off, is generally cumbersome, and noisy.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
For an air cleaner, one important consideration that often goes overlooked is the exhaust velocity/dispersion.
Many of these units blast a narrow stream out at high enough velocities to stir up dust that has already settled, which is not helping your lungs! Settled dust is safe dust until it gets air-born.
Check to see how focused the exhaust is, the less focused, the less velocity. Also some units have much bigger ports which should reduce the focus/velocity of the airstream.
I discovered this problem after I had bought my 2 air cleaners (generally you want to be pushing the air in a circle around your entire shop, so the second unit helps ensure "global" circulation instead of the circuit only happening in a small section), so I adapted as best as I could by buying a third and running them on low when I was in the shop. When I left the shop, I would turn them on high with a 2 hour timer. Fine dust has a "float time" of about 30 minutes in still air and you should be turning over the volume of air in your shop about 6-8 times per hour.
Be sure to mount them where you can reach the controls. I think most have R/C's these days, which is worth the extra cost in many situations.

Here is a basic guide to air filtration/cleaning (but no mention of the fact you can stir up dust).
http://www.rockler.com/how-to/woodshop-air-filtration/

With that said, if your situation allows and when the weather allows (not 5 degrees outside), set up a cross flow and use a heavy duty shrouded window fan to draw air across the shop and outside (think of an attic fan for functionality). If you can do sanding and move other dust-making operations near the window fan, getting the dust completely out of the shop is always best. Same is true of dust collector; if you can set a valve to redirect to outside when weather is warm enough. Just remember, the make-up air has to come from somewhere. Your wife won't be happy if that somewhere is the chimney upstairs and you are drawing ashes and soot into the house. Lastly, if you can exhaust outside, consider where your exhaust window is located. There will be an accrual of wood dust on the plants (or whatever) outside that window (especially after rain or morning dew). A quick spray down with a garden hose will take care of it, but that is probably not something you want to add to your shop routine every time you use it. WAF matters, but if you only need to hose it down for family/friend gatherings, that is not too great of a burden.
Sorry, I may have rambled a bit too far, but wanted you to get a full picture.
They are designed to "blast a narrow stream out at high enough velocities to stir up dust that has already settled". That is why I mentioned the need to mount them in such a way so that the air is rotating in a circular pattern - you effectively create your own jet stream so all those bits end up in the filter. And as you point out, certain shops or sized shops, benefit from multiple air cleaners working in unison.

TOTALLY AGREE with the need for any wood worker's protection, including those working outdoors, to have eye, ear, and respiratory protection! Because I use an air cleaner, I seldom open the garage door while wood working, and use cheap lamps and the garage door lights to eliminate shadows. When I cut fiber cement outdoors, I still use my vacuum system (that crap does not need to reach my lawn) and wear full protection.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I suggest sizing down the sheet with a circular saw first. I normally oversize a little so I can flush trim route. I use an Emerson straight edge for circular saw work. I actually is useful for other work too.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
They are designed to "blast a narrow stream out at high enough velocities to stir up dust that has already settled".
Are you saying the engineers/designers intended to stir up dust as a design objective?
Trying to remember which companies are better at managing their exhaust, I found this article:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdfFREE/011213054.pdf
If you go to the end where they comment on the units they reviewed, both JDS and Powermatic have diffusion filters on their exhausts.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Are you saying the engineers/designers intended to stir up dust as a design objective?
Trying to remember which companies are better at managing their exhaust, I found this article:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdfFREE/011213054.pdf
If you go to the end where they comment on the units they reviewed, both JDS and Powermatic have diffusion filters on their exhausts.
Note that the two fastest cleaners in that review do not use exhaust filters. I am sure there is some application where the exhaust filter is more relevant, but for Fuzz's purposes, an exhaust filter would simply add another filter to purchase.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Lol! So you bought the PM1200 with the third filter?
Yup, I read a bunch of reviews including the one KEW linked and ended up on the powermatic. What sold me were the user reviews who had bought it and posted in forums about the unit. They didn’t seem to have the noise issues noted in the article, plus the third filter never needs to be replaced just rinsed or blown out. They also noted how good powermatic was to work with and how they back up their products.

I can’t find the article, but I believe it was the Wood Whisperer who did a little test with his hanging air filter and actually argued against stirring up dust that had settled. I don’t remember all the details or if it was him or someone else, but they had an air quality meter and seemed to be arguing for letting dust settle and running the air filtration when you were out of the shop IIRC.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
The objective is to get the dust out of the air.
Whether it has settled or ends up in a filter doesn't matter.
The test that the Fine Woodworking article ran included thoroughly cleaning the room after each test as one of the controls. If you do this, then I would accept that stirring up dust that has already settled is not a major concern (because there is very little or no settled dust). However, most shops have lots of settled dust which is best left alone.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Yup, I read a bunch of reviews including the one KEW linked and ended up on the powermatic. What sold me were the user reviews who had bought it and posted in forums about the unit. They didn’t seem to have the noise issues noted in the article, plus the third filter never needs to be replaced just rinsed or blown out. They also noted how good powermatic was to work with and how they back up their products.

I can’t find the article, but I believe it was the Wood Whisperer who did a little test with his hanging air filter and actually argued against stirring up dust that had settled. I don’t remember all the details or if it was him or someone else, but they had an air quality meter and seemed to be arguing for letting dust settle and running the air filtration when you were out of the shop IIRC.
Powermatic is a class act. They are usually very reliable, but if you have a problem, their CS mindset seems to be to make sure you leave the experience glad you bought Powermatic (despite the failure!). IOW, they often do more than "just" meet you expectations.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Forgive my skepticism, I just feel such an air cleaner is intended to increase filter sales, barring some purpose I am not thinking of.

Yes, the Festool guy is nickel and dime-ing air filters! :eek:

I run both dust extraction and the air cleaner simultaneously, and if it was a heavy sanding day or something, I use the timer to run for several hours after work is completed. Dust accumulation on horizontal surfaces is pretty minimal as a result.

Just be sure to wear protection! Lol!
 
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