Emotiva separates A-700/MC-700 OR Denon AVRX4300H for a 7.2 setup

[2channel lover]

I like the fact that you use the word "prefer", and not stating that one is better than the other. I have tried both, and still owned both, AVRs and separates. I am not sure which one I prefer, but for HT, my next upgrade would likely be a downgrade to something like a X4300H or even the newer X3400H, with power amps since they are there already. Even in my separate 2 channel systems, I have hard time forcing myself to believe the separates sound better than my Denon AVR. I am 99% certain, that most people, if not all, would not be able to tell the difference as long as the gear are operated well within their power limits. Still, I have no intention of giving up any or my gear, separates or AVRs, switching them around is fun.

Some separate advocates state the two box system has less floor noise, distortion, better channel isolation separation, etc...maybe those things are legit, maybe they're not. I've never had a quality AVR, the $300-$400 big box Onkyo option for 75-80 wpc (2 channels driven)...Connecting the Outlaw monoblocks...I noticed immediate tighter, punchy bass.. But for me going separates, it's more so longevity. One thing is pretty common, the internal parts of a AVR are under more duress with the amps/capacitors, etc generating heat...for that reason, I'd rather put the control and power in separate boxes if possible.

 

[PENG]

Some separate advocates state the two box system has less floor noise, distortion, better channel isolation separation, etc...maybe those things are legit, maybe they're not. I've never had a quality AVR, the $300-$400 big box Onkyo option for 75-80 wpc (2 channels driven)...Connecting the Outlaw monoblocks...I noticed immediate tighter, punchy bass.. But for me going separates

I don't know which AVRs you have heard, but the one I refer to is the Denon AVR-3805. I replaced my AVR-4308 with separates but luckily I kept the old 3805 that I now used in one of my 2 channel system. I compared that AVR with my separates including the Halo A21, and I am happy with either one, neither one produced tighter/punchier bass.

You can see the measurements of the 3805 in the linked website below without registering. If you registered you can view the results of the higher end Denon AVRs and many high end separates tested between 2004 and 2014.

http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/download/reports/aug04/denonavr3805.html

it's more so longevity. One thing is pretty common, the internal parts of a AVR are under more duress with the amps/capacitors, etc generating heat...for that reason, I'd rather put the control and power in separate boxes if possible.

I believe that too. I never worry about the older models such as the 7.1 D&M or Yamaha AVRs but the newer 11 channels packed with so many gadgets worry me enough that if and when I downgrade back to AVR, I would likely just go with a low cost X3400H.

 

[2channel lover]

I don't know which AVRs you have heard, but the one I refer to is the Denon AVR-3805. I replaced my AVR-4308 with separates but luckily I kept the old 3805 that I now used in one of my 2 channel system. I compared that AVR with my separates including the Halo A21, and I am happy with either one, neither one produced tighter/punchier bass.

You can see the measurements of the 3805 in the linked website below without registering. If you registered you can view the results of the higher end Denon AVRs and many high end separates tested between 2004 and 2014.

http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/download/reports/aug04/denonavr3805.html



I believe that too. I never worry about the older models such as the 7.1 D&M or Yamaha AVRs but the newer 11 channels packed with so many gadgets worry me enough that if and when I downgrade back to AVR, I would likely just go with a low cost X3400H.

AVRs...I'm not really familiar with the models particularly older models...I've learned more about AVR models on here than I've researched in 30 yrs

I've sold it now, but my Onkyo was a dog compared to the monoblocks. Granted, I pushed it pretty hard, but if I played it for more than an hr or two it was always hot to the touch...yes, tighter, more punch on the bottom end than the AVR....I'm thinking the newer, more powerful AVRs, I wouldn't tell any difference either.

My 1st Hifi (I'm not counting my 8track/tuner/turntable) components were a NAD stereo pre amp and a H&K 2 ch power amp. The Onkyo is the only AVR I've owned. I don't have a big problem with AVRs, but if I were to buy one, I'd go with a lessor units that has all the surround modes and features and preouts to add separate power later.

Units like the Denon 6300 are beasts, but that's a lot to put in one box.

 

[KEW]

I've never had a quality AVR, the $300-$400 big box Onkyo option for 75-80 wpc (2 channels driven)

If it was $300-$400 MSRP, that is pretty low on the scale. What speakers were you driving?
However, I do think the combination of an AVR with some external amplification would be ideal.
Also consider something like a 3000 or 4000 series Denon AVR and letting it power the surrounds while using external amplification for the fronts. For highest value, I could see a Denon 3/4000 AVR combined with an Outlaw 5000. The Outlaw makes a kickass 2 or 3 channel amp and the Denon would be coasting with only the surrounds to drive.
I have a hard time buying something like the Marantz AV7702mkII because I know in another decade the technology will offer something I want. It is the only component that I can safely bet will become "obsolete" in 10-15 years.
I thank you for helping subsidize the development of technology for the next generation of AVR's, but would advise going with an upper mid-level AVR instead of flagship pre-pro in the future.
On the other hand, if you've got the coin, why not? Dr Mark (aka TLSGuy) has one and he doesn't compromise on audio!

 

[2channel lover]

If it was $300-$400 MSRP, that is pretty low on the scale. What speakers were you driving?
However, I do think the combination of an AVR with some external amplification would be ideal.
Also consider something like a 3000 or 4000 series Denon AVR and letting it power the surrounds while using external amplification for the fronts. For highest value, I could see a Denon 3/4000 AVR combined with an Outlaw 500. The Outlaw makes a kickass 2 or 3 channel amp and the Denon would be coasting with only the surrounds to drive.
I have a hard time buying something like the Marantz AV7702mkII because I know in another decade the technology will offer something I want. It is the only component that I can safely bet will become "obsolete" in 10-15 years.
I thank you for helping subsidize the development of technology for the next generation of AVR's, but would advise going with an upper mid-level AVR instead of flagship pre-pro in the future.
On the other hand, if you've got the coin, why not? Dr Mark (aka TLSGuy) has one and he doesn't compromise on audio!

I bought the Onkyo just before the crash...wife wanted surround...the 804m have been the fronts for the last two decades...I wasn't in the financial position to get a B&W CC so I bought one that was decent and the 5.1 ch processor for movies...yes, it was about $300-350.

To be appreciated. My wife thinks I like gadgets and to some degree I do but, I'm really more into the music...the stuff that makes it happen its pretty cool, the more you learn, the better off you are on many levels...technology...I like multichannel music...never thought I would...the surround modes, I didn't go for the max of the mkii's channel processing...the next level, whatever that is, probably won't intrigue me in the same way it might you.

I'm not pro separates and anti AVR....it's not a debate for me as to which is a better value/performer, of course the AVR wins in all practicality...you make great points, it's merely a preference.

 

[KEW]

I bought the Onkyo just before the crash...wife wanted surround...the 804m have been the fronts for the last two decades
To be appreciated. My wife thinks I like gadgets and to some degree I do but, I'm really more into the music...the stuff that makes it happen its pretty cool, the more you learn, the better off you are on many levels...technology...I like multichannel music...never thought I would...the surround modes, I didn't go for the max of the mkii's channel processing...the next level, whatever that is, probably won't intrigue me in the same way it might you.

I'm not pro separates and anti AVR....it's not a debate for me as to which is a better value/performer, of course the AVR wins in all practicality...you make great points, it's merely a preference.

I could not find 804m's via Google. I did find this for the 804 Nautilus (Soundstage review):

A sensitivity of 89dB/W/m is quoted. However, the impedance reportedly dips down to the 3-ohm range, so an amplifier capable of providing a healthy amount of current and control would probably be best for the Nautilus 804s

I just think there is a good chance your Onkyo didn't have the ability to properly drive your speakers. That would certainly explain why you realized such a difference.

Which multi-channel mode do you use for music and what type of music? I haven't looked into that!

 

[2channel lover]

I could not find 804m's via Google. I did find this for the 804 Nautilus (Soundstage review):

I just think there is a good chance your Onkyo didn't have the ability to properly drive your speakers. That would certainly explain why you realized such a difference.

Which multi-channel mode do you use for music and what type of music? I haven't looked into that!

804m...the matrix line was the pre-'98 era of the 800 series...The Nautilus was replacing my speakers...I've been buying close deals a long time......of it's time, the 804m was a review darling...it had a different mid, still kevlar, but also a different tweeter from the Nautilus line.

MC...SACD has been the only format so far on the Oppo 205...on the mkii, the mode is multi-channel analog, but some music sounds better via hdmi....DSOTM is great multichannel engineering...of course the content lends itself to surround. Another really good one Dire Straits...Brothers In Arms...Diana Krall is good in multichannel as well. Not every song works in multi-channel, especially when it comes to rears, but sometimes it might be something as simple as the 2.1 which opens up your mids a bit.

I've said I wanted to buy a few blu ray concerts at some point...that would be another format.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

neither one produced tighter/punchier bass.

Well, we can't have this. You need to be more biased.

I listened to my new SVT towers some more last night and played with the Denon X3100 Crossover setting. I compared 80Hz to 120Hz. And I believe the 120Hz produced tighter/punchier bass. I really wanted to go with the 80Hz. But after last night, I'm going to have to go with 120Hz XO.

So I think MAYBE the XO can produce tighter/punchier bass. MAYBE. So perhaps certain AVRs or PrePros might have different bass management implementation. Who knows?

 

[PENG]

Well, we can't have this. You need to be more biased.

I listened to my new SVT towers some more last night and played with the Denon X3100 Crossover setting. I compared 80Hz to 120Hz. And I believe the 120Hz produced tighter/punchier bass. I really wanted to go with the 80Hz. But after last night, I'm going to have to go with 120Hz XO.

So I think MAYBE the XO can produce tighter/punchier bass. MAYBE. So perhaps certain AVRs or PrePros might have different bass management implementation. Who knows?

When I do AB comparisons I always set the AVR to pure direct, no subs no nothing..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When I do AB comparisons I always set the AVR to pure direct, no subs no nothing..

A long time ago I owned a Pioneer PrePro. I remember comparing it to my Acurus Preamp, and I could tell a big difference, which lead me to believe that the Pioneer PrePro didn't really have a BYPASS or DIRECT mode.

Maybe it's because the Pioneer was just old and didn't have DIRECT mode or it was faulty.

But it made me wonder if a few other PrePros out there may not have a true DIRECT mode.

So on a FEW PrePros, you may think you're comparing in DIRECT mode, but you may not be actually comparing in DIRECT mode for whatever reasons.

 

[Aman]

I also, because of another thread, just found out that PSA has a pair of XV15se's for sale in their Outlet store for $700 each. He may drop another $50 off if you buy a pair. That is a great deal on a couple of solid vented subs. Here is Josh Ricci's review of the XV15 which is the model previous to the XV15se. They are virtually the same sub, but the XV15se has a slightly better driver, IIRC!
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/xv-15-subwoofer

Sent a message to Tom from PSA last Friday who sent me a link where I could order 2 for $1499. Should have the XV15se by end of this week!!!

 

[PENG]

A long time ago I owned a Pioneer PrePro. I remember comparing it to my Acurus Preamp, and I could tell a big difference, which lead me to believe that the Pioneer PrePro didn't really have a BYPASS or DIRECT mode.

Maybe it's because the Pioneer was just old and didn't have DIRECT mode or it was faulty.

But it made me wonder if a few other PrePros out there may not have a true DIRECT mode.

So on a FEW PrePros, you may think you're comparing in DIRECT mode, but you may not be actually comparing in DIRECT mode for whatever reasons.

I think you could be right about the newer models. Time to email D&M.

 

[Aman]

Thank you everyone! The home theatre is finally ready. I am uploading some pics here. Below is the list of components that went into making this room.

Denon avr x4300
outlaw 7100
2 psa xv15se sub
For Speakers, I went all KEF
3 KEF CI4100QL
4 KEF CI200ER
2 KEF CI160 2L
EPSON 5040UB projector
Acoustic treatment from mixmaster acoustics.
Panamax PM4300

I am loving it!

 

[KenM10759]

Stunning room, must sound terrific!

BTW, have you considered a thick rug over some of that bare floor to reduce reflected sound?

 

[Aman]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I have thought of exactly that. The rug has shipped. Should have it by the end of the week. Will also have some bean bags on the rug.

I have one slight issue though. I have a little hum from the right sub when turned to little over half the full volume. When I take it down the hum is inaudible. I am sure its still there but I cant hear it. I have verified the cable connections and they look alright to me.

Do you have any other suggestions aside from the carpet?

 

[KenM10759]

That's highly likely to be a ground loop hum. You should first check your power cord to the sub. If it's a three prong one, swap it for a two-prong style. If it's a two-prong, try a three. Get a better cable for it. Search this forum for threads about the subject, it's a VERY common one.

http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz

Start there.

 

[2channel lover]

Thank you everyone! The home theatre is finally ready. I am uploading some pics here. Below is the list of components that went into making this room.

Denon avr x4300
outlaw 7100
2 psa xv15se sub
For Speakers, I went all KEF
3 KEF CI4100QL
4 KEF CI200ER
2 KEF CI160 2L
EPSON 5040UB projector
Acoustic treatment from mixmaster acoustics.
Panamax PM4300

I am loving it!

And you should!!

Well done, looks great and I've always been a KEF fan...I'm sure it sounds great too!

Congrats!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Congrats. Should be very proud of your room. Great equipment. Great looking Room.

 

[agarwalro]

I have one slight issue though. I have a little hum from the right sub when turned to little over half the full volume. When I take it down the hum is inaudible. I am sure its still there but I cant hear it. I have verified the cable connections and they look alright to me.

Does it hum with just power connected to it? Is it still variable with gain knob?

That's highly likely to be a ground loop hum.

Since the hum volume is affected by sub's gain control, I would assume it to be a noisy sub amp.