Anyone know how to calibrate a Transducer (Buttkicker, Clark Synthesis)

[Steve81]

I thought 75 db is 75 db is 75 db. Am i wrong in this?

You're wrong in your interpretation; you'll still calibrate the Funks the same way, but at some point where you would have turned up the volume and the Polks would have been out of steam, the Funks will keep on giving more output. The Funks will also dig considerably deeper than the Polks. In no uncertain terms, you will have a very different experience.

 

[gmichael]

Fuzz - Well, now you know why I bought the Funk Subs.
I bought the Polk when that was all I could afford.

But it's not like the Polk Subs don't produce sound. How loud do you put your subs? I have my subs calibrated at 75 Db.
Do bigger subs give more vibration at 75 db than smaller subs?
I thought 75 db is 75 db is 75 db. Am i wrong in this?

You calibrate your subs & speakers at 75 db to make sure that they match
each other. Sometimes you'll turn your volume down and they will all be less
than 75 db. Other times you will turn the volume up (or there might be an
explosion, or loud note etc) and you'll go over 75 db. The Polks will run out
of steam very fast. The 18.3's will keep up with the action much better. They
will also reproduce frequencies much lower than the Polks. Just wait, you'll
see.

 

[fuzz092888]

Fuzz - Well, now you know why I bought the Funk Subs.
I bought the Polk when that was all I could afford.

But it's not like the Polk Subs don't produce sound. How loud do you put your subs? I have my subs calibrated at 75 Db.
Do bigger subs give more vibration at 75 db than smaller subs?
I thought 75 db is 75 db is 75 db. Am i wrong in this?

I agree with the other guys.

Let's put it this way, a Prius and a Ferrarai can both do 45 MPH, but they provide a much different experience at that speed and when you step on the gas, one peters out and the other roars forward. The Funks will hit harder and fill the space much better. You're basement is a cavern compared to a lot of spaces and you need to be able to pressurize that entire space in order to get a nice tactile feel from your subs. The polks just don't have enough grunt to even begin to think about doing that.

 

[Grador]

I thought that was a new question. Ok, how about this - yes or no.
To calibrate the buttkicker, I put turn the buttkicker off and put a 40hz wave through the subs and look at what the reading says on a SPL meter at the sitting position.
Then I turn the sub off and put a 40hz wave through my buttkicker and adjust the buttkicker so the SPL meter matches what the subs read on it.

Yes, or no?

Sure, if you can first explain to me a few things. What sound are you measuring with your Sound Pressure Level meter? If you can describe what sound you're measuring with the BKs then explain to me why you want the number to match?

 

[gmichael]

I'm tapping out guys. Good luck.

 

[jay21112]

Sure, if you can first explain to me a few things. What sound are you measuring with your Sound Pressure Level meter? If you can describe what sound you're measuring with the BKs then explain to me why you want the number to match?

Not a clue. That's why I'm confused. Is there another instrument used besides a SPL meter? Is that where I'm going wrong?
Or are you just watching me flail in the water, thinking "I told him to just see how an explosion feels and adjust it to that; and he keeps trying to go swimming in the deep end. Serves him right."

 

[jay21112]

I agree with the other guys.

Let's put it this way, a Prius and a Ferrarai can both do 45 MPH, but they provide a much different experience at that speed and when you step on the gas, one peters out and the other roars forward. The Funks will hit harder and fill the space much better. You're basement is a cavern compared to a lot of spaces and you need to be able to pressurize that entire space in order to get a nice tactile feel from your subs. The polks just don't have enough grunt to even begin to think about doing that.

Very interesting. I keep learning as I go with HT, and today it's very apparent that I still have a lot more to learn.

I was excited to get the Funk's before. Now I'm even more excited. I wish I had the cash to get 4 of them to replace the two polk's too. Going to have to wait a bit for that though...

 

[Steve81]

I wish I had the cash to get 4 of them to replace the two polk's too. Going to have to wait a bit for that though...

Somehow I think you'll be satisfied with two, unless you're seriously deranged.

 

[Grador]

Not a clue. That's why I'm confused. Is there another instrument used besides a SPL meter? Is that where I'm going wrong?
Or are you just watching me flail in the water, thinking "I told him to just see how an explosion feels and adjust it to that; and he keeps trying to go swimming in the deep end. Serves him right."

I'm tapping out guys. Good luck.

Whelp, going to have to join you here. Seems like I'm talking to a wall.

 

[jay21112]

Whelp, going to have to join you here. Seems like I'm talking to a wall.[/COLOR]

Oh boy. Sorry for being so dense. I'd like to say it's because I was looking at this between patients today, but in truth I'm probably just that dense. Thanks for trying. I'll go pop in Clash of the Titans 2 and try to calibrate the buttkicker. I think that's the most bass heavy flick I have in my collection.

 

[TLS Guy]

Not a clue. That's why I'm confused. Is there another instrument used besides a SPL meter? Is that where I'm going wrong?
Or are you just watching me flail in the water, thinking "I told him to just see how an explosion feels and adjust it to that; and he keeps trying to go swimming in the deep end. Serves him right."

Yes, that is what we are telling you. An spl meter will be useless to measure your butt buster. That device is designed to induce fluid pressure changes in your backside and not generate sound waves in a gas.

One other issue. The speed of sound in air is 1100 ft/sec, in your butt it is 4995 ft/sec. So if your buttkicker vibrates at 20 Hz then the frequency of the sound in your butt is 90 Hz. So that is why you feel it as a faster vibration than 20 HZ. If it is 10 Hz frequency, the frequency in your butt is 45 Hz. However this is not different than the frequency transmutation that a sub would produce in the body. That is why those deep tones from a sub appear to vibrate through out your body at a higher frequency, because they do.

 

[jay21112]

Ok, I sat down with dinner and re-read this whole thread, and I think I understand now, and understand why I wasn't comprehending what you all have been saying.
Here goes my last try:

I think I'm confused...because I don't feel anything from my Polk Sub. So I've had no idea what you guys were talking about when you said calibrate the buttkicker to the sub. I was thinking that you were saying calibrate the SOUND of the 40hz test tone played through the sub to the SOUND of 40 hz test tone played through the buttkicker. However you were saying to calibrate the FEEL of the 40hz test tone played through the sub to the FEEL of the 40hz test tone played through the buttkicker. I wasn't understanding this because I can't FEEL a 40 hz test tone through my sub, so my brain kept thinking SOUND.

Then when the polk sub bashing began and you guys kept saying how I'll FEEL a difference with the Funk audio subs, it started to click.

So, do I have this right now:
Play a 40hz test tone through the sub (with the transducer off) and see how it FEELS from the seated position.
Then play a 40hz test tone through the transducer (with the sub off) and calibrate that FEELING to the sub feeling?


And one more thing, I think I realize why you keep saying we can't calibrate the buttkicker. Because sound moves through air and we understand the properties of air and how it affects sound. IE: Air is constant in the equation. But tactile sensation moves through our bodies and we don't understand the properties of our bodies because every body is unique. So we can't calibrate something through a medium that has such a high variability.

I swear, if I'm still lost I'm going to hang myself. Because I really feel like I had a eureka moment just now. (Kidding about the hanging, but I'll be really angry and probably go a few rounds on the punching bag to vent some steam).

 

[fuzz092888]

How much longer until you take delivery of the Funk subs?

 

[jay21112]

I ordered just before the new year, to get in before the price increase. Delivery was supposed to be Feb 1, but from emails with the owner, it sounds like the poor guy has been on death's door a few times this year (I may be exaggerating, but he has been really sick). So he's pushed back delivery to about first week in April. I'm currently in the process of running a new 20 amp circuit to the room to handle them.

 

[Adam]

Wow, this thread took off today. There were like six posts when I left for work.

So, while there's more that's been said, I think that I'll say what's been on my mind since the original post: just set it to what you like. I think that's the best way to go. After all - you bought them to get more enjoyment out of your system, right? Well...nothing says enjoyment like setting it up in a way that you, well, enjoy.

I understand wanting to calibrate them, though. If the company that makes them can't help, I'd suggest contacting that IMAX theater and seeing if they have any helpful info.

 

[majorloser]

And one more thing, I think I realize why you keep saying we can't calibrate the buttkicker. Because sound moves through air and we understand the properties of air and how it affects sound. IE: Air is constant in the equation. But tactile sensation moves through our bodies and we don't understand the properties of our bodies because every body is unique. So we can't calibrate something through a medium that has such a high variability.

Correct. As I stated earlier you will need to set the crossover point and even the delay for the transducer at different points than the subwoofer. But there is no real metric for these adjustment except your own perception between to vibrations in your rear end and the sound you are hearing. Do they happen at the same time and does the vibration equate to what you think the vibration should feel like. The whole idea of the transducer is to produce the expect vibration levels of strong bass without the high volume levels. Yes, you can get powerful subwoofers to shake the whole house at ear shattering volumes. But sometimes it may not be practical, like late at night when others are sleeping. Hey, I'm all for multiple massive subwoofers. I have been known to be up at 3:00 am with a friend measuring levels in my yard next to my house with an dB meter to see how high we could get (after a couple bottles of absinthe).

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok, I sat down with dinner and re-read this whole thread, and I think I understand now, and understand why I wasn't comprehending what you all have been saying.
Here goes my last try:

I think I'm confused...because I don't feel anything from my Polk Sub. So I've had no idea what you guys were talking about when you said calibrate the buttkicker to the sub. I was thinking that you were saying calibrate the SOUND of the 40hz test tone played through the sub to the SOUND of 40 hz test tone played through the buttkicker. However you were saying to calibrate the FEEL of the 40hz test tone played through the sub to the FEEL of the 40hz test tone played through the buttkicker. I wasn't understanding this because I can't FEEL a 40 hz test tone through my sub, so my brain kept thinking SOUND.

Then when the polk sub bashing began and you guys kept saying how I'll FEEL a difference with the Funk audio subs, it started to click.

So, do I have this right now:
Play a 40hz test tone through the sub (with the transducer off) and see how it FEELS from the seated position.
Then play a 40hz test tone through the transducer (with the sub off) and calibrate that FEELING to the sub feeling?


And one more thing, I think I realize why you keep saying we can't calibrate the buttkicker. Because sound moves through air and we understand the properties of air and how it affects sound. IE: Air is constant in the equation. But tactile sensation moves through our bodies and we don't understand the properties of our bodies because every body is unique. So we can't calibrate something through a medium that has such a high variability.

I swear, if I'm still lost I'm going to hang myself. Because I really feel like I had a eureka moment just now. (Kidding about the hanging, but I'll be really angry and probably go a few rounds on the punching bag to vent some steam).

You have grasped the important points now.

 

[jay21112]

You have grasped the important points now.

Whoohoo!
Just took me 24 hours and about 8 people to explain...

 

[Grador]

You know get why you cannot measure, but if you do exactly what you say you're going to you still aren't "calibrating" and could be setting them up suboptimally. If you see how your sub feels, then match the kickers all you're doing is ensuring that your kickers are ~doubling what you feel. This is an arbitrary aiming point, not a calibration.

As Adam said, you bought these to enhance your experience. Set them to a point you feel your experience is most enhanced.

 

[jay21112]

Hey, One last question. Kinda off topic to the original post, but on topic to the conversation.
Once I put the Funk subs in the room, do I level match all 4 subs even though the Funk's are much more powerful compared to the Polks?
I have the Polks in the rear, 6.5 feet behind the sitting position, and the Funks in the front, 15 feet to the sitting position.

Do I still level match them all to calibrate them?