Budget Sub Help/Comparison

R

raezo

Audioholic Intern
I have recently purchased Denon AVR 890 and Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2.

I am debating on how to complete the set, it will be with either 3 more of the SP-FS52 or 1 SP-C22 and a pair of SP-BS22

If you have any advice on that, I welcome it. I listen to 80% music and the rest divided between games and movies.

The real question here is a budget sub. I love my new pioneers but my old speakers had 12 inch woofers in them so i am definitely missing some of that, sloppy or not.

Right now I am considering these three......
AE12-08
Carnival 9
Bic Formula F-12

If a comparison could be made that would be helpful. Maybe a better alternative in the price range? Also, If I spent X more, what would be a better buy?
 
R

raezo

Audioholic Intern
Update: Just Ordered a pair of SP-BS22.
Now just need a sub to rock a 4.1 setup for a while.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
The subwoofer is, IMO, the one place in a surround sound system where you should really never skimp. Reproducing deep bass is difficult, and there's just no getting around physics. It takes what it takes, and it isn't cheap.

My advice: if you can't afford around $350 for a subwoofer, go as inexpensive as you possibly can so that you can save up that much quicker, and upgrade to a $350+ subwoofer in the future. I consider something like the HSU STF-2 or BIC PL-200 to be the bare minimum for genuinely good bass. And I consider around the $550 mark with the HSU VTF-2 MK4 or Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus or Rythmik FV12 (if it ever comes back in stock) to be the least expensive subwoofers capable of "doing it all", by which I mean they can genuinely play down to 20Hz, they can play accurately and linearly, and they can play loud without distortion.

Dropping from the $550 subs to the $350 subs forces you to lose a little bit of extension (around 25Hz instead of 20Hz) and some output. But at least you can still get high quality bass that is accurate and linear, and still quite loud without distortion.

Dropping below $350 tends to mean some pretty big sacrifices though. You start to really obviously lose extension (serious roll off in the 30Hz range insead of 25Hz, and 20Hz is completely out of reach). You start to give up linearity and accuracy. And you start to get some pretty serious distortion, especially at louder levels. It doesn't have to be terrible, but there are almost always some pretty obvious compromises being made.

So I suggest going as cheap as you can if you can't afford $350. I tend to recommend the Onkyo SKW204 . It's actually a surprisingly good little subwoofer - always manages to bring a smile to my face :)

At $90 from accessories4less, it's a great deal. But they're sold out at the moment I'm writing this. A4L tends to get stock of the SKW204 from time to time. They always sell out quickly. So if you decide to go with this Onkyo sub, just keep an eye on accessories4less every day, and grab a unit as soon as it's available in stock!

You can find the SKW204 for around $145 at Amazon and the like, but at that price, it's not as good of a deal. What makes the SKW204 make sense to me as a recommendation is being able to spend under $100 for a sub that, while obviously not as good as the $350 or especially the $550 subs that I've mentioned, it's still pretty good, and will at least deliver fairly accurate, punchy bass that nicely fills in the low end for movies and music. By spending under $100, you allow yourself to save up in order to afford one of those $550 subs. It's a very small bite out of your wallet, so it's easy to accept any short-comings, and you can easily make your money back if you decide to sell the SKW204 when you upgrade. If you spend closer to $200 right away, you don't really get any sonic benefits - those subs are still heavily compromised and obviously not as good as the $350 or $550 subs. But with $200 gone, it's harder to accept the short-comings, and you're less likely to get that full amount back if you sell it.

So, that's my advice, in any event :)
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Dropping from the $550 subs to the $350 subs forces you to lose a little bit of extension (around 25Hz instead of 20Hz) and some output. But at least you can still get high quality bass that is accurate and linear, and still quite loud without distortion.
Just for a little additional perspective:

A few extra Hz or dB doesn't sound like a lot on paper. Because of how human hearing and the dB scale work however, they are significant.

Take a 6dB increase in output: that equates to double the sound pressure. Now its possible you've read that it takes a 10dB increase to double perceived loudness, but you've got to consider that bass is something you feel as well as hear. In that sense, a doubling of pressure can be very significant indeed. It can be the difference between a punch to the chest from me, and a punch to the chest from a pro boxer.

With respect to Hz, due to the way the ear operates, its important to keep in mind how they relate to octaves. 19,995Hz to 20,000Hz is utterly insignificant in this respect. However, 20Hz to 25Hz represents a third of an octave step. 25Hz to 32Hz is another third of an octave step. Looked at from that angle, those 5Hz from 20 to 25 are roughly comparable to the range between 16kHz to 20kHz, except that due to the "feel factor" of bass, you'll miss them a lot more if they're gone.
 
Last edited:
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
If you have any advice on that, I welcome it. I listen to 80% music and the rest divided between games and movies.

The real question here is a budget sub. I love my new pioneers but my old speakers had 12 inch woofers in them so i am definitely missing some of that, sloppy or not.

Now just need a sub to rock a 4.1 setup for a while.
Weigh everything out - and be sure of your decision.

However, the real question was for budget subs - and also you listen
to 80% music. For me, I am not concerned about 20 hz extension for
music. And I do not recommend subs, that I consider would give you
cheap bass.

For me, there are only about 2 or 3 subs that I would look at in your
price area - and the Acoustic Energy is one of them - that is a nice
looking sub, that looks/seems to be well built - their earlier version
did not get much so-call praise > so they went and redesigned and
built a new one. And, this thing weighs 40.7 lbs un-boxed > I would
keep it on a short list of options. Good Luck with your decision.
 
Last edited:
R

raezo

Audioholic Intern
The subwoofer is, IMO, the one place in a surround sound system where you should really never skimp. Reproducing deep bass is difficult, and there's just no getting around physics. It takes what it takes, and it isn't cheap.

My advice: if you can't afford around $350 for a subwoofer, go as inexpensive as you possibly can so that you can save up that much quicker, and upgrade to a $350+ subwoofer in the future. I consider something like the HSU STF-2 or BIC PL-200 to be the bare minimum for genuinely good bass. And I consider around the $550 mark with the HSU VTF-2 MK4 or Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus or Rythmik FV12 (if it ever comes back in stock) to be the least expensive subwoofers capable of "doing it all", by which I mean they can genuinely play down to 20Hz, they can play accurately and linearly, and they can play loud without distortion.

Dropping from the $550 subs to the $350 subs forces you to lose a little bit of extension (around 25Hz instead of 20Hz) and some output. But at least you can still get high quality bass that is accurate and linear, and still quite loud without distortion.

Dropping below $350 tends to mean some pretty big sacrifices though. You start to really obviously lose extension (serious roll off in the 30Hz range insead of 25Hz, and 20Hz is completely out of reach). You start to give up linearity and accuracy. And you start to get some pretty serious distortion, especially at louder levels. It doesn't have to be terrible, but there are almost always some pretty obvious compromises being made.

So I suggest going as cheap as you can if you can't afford $350. I tend to recommend the Onkyo SKW204 . It's actually a surprisingly good little subwoofer - always manages to bring a smile to my face :)

At $90 from accessories4less, it's a great deal. But they're sold out at the moment I'm writing this. A4L tends to get stock of the SKW204 from time to time. They always sell out quickly. So if you decide to go with this Onkyo sub, just keep an eye on accessories4less every day, and grab a unit as soon as it's available in stock!

You can find the SKW204 for around $145 at Amazon and the like, but at that price, it's not as good of a deal. What makes the SKW204 make sense to me as a recommendation is being able to spend under $100 for a sub that, while obviously not as good as the $350 or especially the $550 subs that I've mentioned, it's still pretty good, and will at least deliver fairly accurate, punchy bass that nicely fills in the low end for movies and music. By spending under $100, you allow yourself to save up in order to afford one of those $550 subs. It's a very small bite out of your wallet, so it's easy to accept any short-comings, and you can easily make your money back if you decide to sell the SKW204 when you upgrade. If you spend closer to $200 right away, you don't really get any sonic benefits - those subs are still heavily compromised and obviously not as good as the $350 or $550 subs. But with $200 gone, it's harder to accept the short-comings, and you're less likely to get that full amount back if you sell it.

So, that's my advice, in any event :)
I don't know if I would ever spend $500 on a sub. There's something inside me that is just hating the thought of that. The acoustic Energy Sub is in the $250 market. What would be a good sub in the $350 range? Spending $100 on a sub is definitely enticing ill keep an eye on that. Anyone else have ideas on subs in the 250-350 range?

I've already been told this is probably not the route i want to go but I feel I should at least bring it up since I have the speakers so, how does it stand up to the previous mentioned subs SW-8MK2
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Are you familiar with the term "as impressive as a flea's fart in a hurricane"? That's what too little sub in too large of a room sounds like compared to a top notch sub that's properly sized to the room. The difference is meh just sorta there non-tactical bass and feel it in your bones BASS and sloppy bass vs tight bass. Of course if you're in an apartment with grumpy neighbor issues you may not be able to take advantage of the dramatic improvement a good sub makes.

Without some idea of the total volume of the room including any spaces open to that room I have no clue what the minimum should be but I suggest not skimping on the subwoofer if you can possibly avoid it.
 
Last edited:
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I've already been told this is probably not the route i want to go but I feel I should at least bring it up since I have the speakers so, how does it stand up to the previous mentioned subs SW-8MK2
I would not touch that sub.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
The HSU STF-2 is easily my top pick for a $350-ish subwoofer. The BIC PL-200 is also not bad.

As I said, you're giving up a bit of extension and output with the STF-2 as compared to the $550 and up subs, but at least you're still getting high quality bass, and a very large and noticeable improvement over the cheaper subs.

The STF-2 is a subwoofer I recommend very often. It strikes a great balance between price and performance and rarely disappoints while being obviously better than less expensive subs, and thus a very good value and easily appreciated :)
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
The acoustic Energy Sub is in the $250 market. What would be a good sub in the $350 range? Anyone else have ideas on subs in the 250-350 range?
The Acoustic Energy is not a $250 sub, that is the close-out pricing
of the subwoofer. It use to have a list price of $749. Depending on
the map location, the street price may have been lower than $749.

The sub choice and decision, is up to you.
 
R

raezo

Audioholic Intern
The Acoustic Energy is not a $250 sub, that is the close-out pricing
of the subwoofer. It use to have a list price of $749. Depending on
the map location, the street price may have been lower than $749.

The sub choice and decision, is up to you.
I ended up ordering the acoustic energy woofer. I'm hoping this turns out to be a great sub. Hopefully since it was previously a higher cost, it will have better quality parts than other subs in the $250 price range. I am excited about the double woofer. Wish I could find some reviews on it. Thanks again for the help, should have it in a couple days.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I ended up ordering the acoustic energy woofer. I'm hoping this turns out to be a great sub. Hopefully since it was previously a higher cost, it will have better quality parts than other subs in the $250 price range. I am excited about the double woofer. Wish I could find some reviews on it. Thanks again for the help, should have it in a couple days.
You can look here
Group Test: Compact speaker systems - AVReview Speaker reviews
 
R

raezo

Audioholic Intern
Random question.... The sub came with a little fuse taped to the power chord in a plastic baggie. Any idea what its for? I haven't turned the sub on or anything. I don't see anything about it in the very short manual and I don't see anything obvious that tells me.... hey a fuse might go here.
 
H

hizzaah

Full Audioholic
I know on my sub there's a fuse access on the back panel. I'd imagine that one is just a spare, but see if you can find the fuse access. On mine it's a little circular thing that you push in, turn, then it slides out with the fuse..
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Random question.... The sub came with a little fuse taped to the power chord in a plastic baggie. Any idea what its for? I haven't turned the sub on or anything. I don't see anything about it in the very short manual and I don't see anything obvious that tells me.... hey a fuse might go here.
That should be a replacement fuse - if the sub blows a fuse.
Check where the power cord is connected to the sub, it may
be located around that area. If not, then the location may be
inside the back of the sub. I would worry about that later, if
you blow a fuse.

You can always contact Acoustic Energy
http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/Default.aspx?pagename=Contact--Acoustic-Energy

http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/Default.aspx?pagename=Contact-us-form-Acoustic-Energy
 
Last edited:
R

raezo

Audioholic Intern
Thanks much it was a spare fuse. So i have the RCA hooked up to the sub pre out on my AVR, the power light is on, i have the volume on the sub halfway. im getting no sound from the sub. The voltage thing on the back is set to 115. the phase is set to 0 (i dont know what that is). Any ideas here? my 4 speakers are working fine.
 
H

hizzaah

Full Audioholic
Make sure the sub is turned on in the receiver settings.. If you ran the auto calibrate thing before plugging in the sub it may have defaulted to off
 
R

raezo

Audioholic Intern
Make sure the sub is turned on in the receiver settings.. If you ran the auto calibrate thing before plugging in the sub it may have defaulted to off
I see the sub is on in the settings but i dont see it in the display. I'm at a loss here
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I see the sub is on in the settings but i dont see it in the display. I'm at a loss here
Go back in the menu for sub selection - and try
setting it to, LFE + Main

Also, are the speakers set to small or large, and what is the
crossover setting in the receiver?
 
Last edited:
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top