Help me choose Espresso Machine

[BoredSysAdmin]

Current equipment owned:
Baratza Virtuoso
Moka Pot
Issue at hand: Currently it takes too much effort to brew more than one "cup"
cleaning bween the cycles makes it extra annoying if on occasion wife asks for a cup of joe
I like the flavor of moka and I developed a decent technique, but I'm ready for next step - aka real espresso

Ideally I'm looking for machine in $500 ballpark which consistently make great pulls without too much effort tuning it and fiddling with it. Another big one - I'd love it to support both ground beans and pods if just quick cup is needed without tinkering with machine.

I found few options, but none seems to excel in all areas
Gaggia 102533 Espresso-Dose Semi-Automatic Espresso Machine, Warm Silver: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining

Ascaso ARC Espresso Machine Dark Black - tank, 110 volts good for Espresso ground AND E.S.E. Pods: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining


The renegade:
Crossland Coffee CC1 Espresso Machine | Seattle Coffee Gear
yes it's more pricy and (no support for pods ?). have some weird design compromises (aka terrible menu) and water tank , but it seems like nothing at this price point have the PID and could consistently make great pulls

Going crazy here:
Breville BES900XL Dual Boiler Semi Automatic Espresso Machine: Amazon.com: Home & Kitchen

I like many good design decisions on this machine - refill water tank from top cover. DB -> great steam ->great milk froth. Again PID will allow great consistency. It looks like it's missing pod support ?


Honestly, currently CC1 is top runner, but I wish it would a bit cheaper
and get a separate pod only machine

Thoughts and ideas are welcome

 

[Swerd]

I know next to nothing about espresso, but in the last year I've geeked out on home roasted coffee. So, I've been wanting to talk coffee with someone. Maybe I'll learn something.

I order green coffee from a small supplier in Oakland, CA, Sweet Maria's, known for good quality coffee and reliably good info in general about all things coffee. I've found that what they recommend has worked very well for me and for that reason alone I offer what they say about about home espresso makers:

Espresso machines are like more things in life; you get what you pay for. You can get a $90 "espresso" machine from Wal-Mart or Costco, and it probably makes a coffee concentrate, but we here at Sweet Maria's would be hard pressed to call that espresso.

No, if you want to make espresso at home, you need a decent machine that has the boiler press to push steam through a compressed puck of coffee. In our experience, you need to spend upwards of $400 to even get close. That is a lot of money! And it does not include a decent grinder, which is absolutely a must if you are trying to make espresso at home. I have always advised folks that if you need to skimp, spend more to get a really good grinder, and maybe less on the espresso machine; the other way round and you are just shooting your self in the foot (or cup maybe?)

We sell only semi-automatic machines, ones that require a separate grinder. There are decent fully automatic machines out there, but you lose a lot of control over the process with a built-in grinder.

You can see what machines they recommend here Espresso Machines | Sweet Maria's Coffee

A much longer write up may or may not be useful for you as you seem to already know a thing or two:
https://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/espresso-definition-basic-techniques

What coffee do you use when you make espresso? I know one person who makes espresso at home and she tried a roasted espresso blend from Sweet Marias and and loved it.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I know next to nothing about espresso, but in the last year I've geeked out on home roasted coffee. So, I've been wanting to talk coffee with someone. Maybe I'll learn something.

I order green coffee from a small supplier in Oakland, CA, Sweet Maria's, known for good quality coffee and reliably good info in general about all things coffee. I've found that what they recommend has worked very well for me and for that reason alone I offer what they say about about home espresso makers:

You can see what machines they recommend here Espresso Machines | Sweet Maria's Coffee

A much longer write up may or may not be useful for you as you seem to already know a thing or two:
https://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/espresso-definition-basic-techniques

What coffee do you use when you make espresso? I know one person who makes espresso at home and she tried a roasted espresso blend from Sweet Marias and and loved it.

Thanks Swerd, Rancilio Silvia is indeed highly recommended machine - it doesn't have PID (only as aftermarket "hack" ) - so it requires many manual preparations, but was on top of my list before I found out about CC1 which helps to automate many of RS's magic tricks done for best extractions (timing, temp etc...)

If I learned anything about coffee is you really want it freshly ground and roasted. Home roasting is not yet an option, but I do next best thing - I buy it locally from local coffee roasting shop.

Like audio - good coffee shouldn't be magic, but at least 90% science. Temperature, Time, Pressure, Coffee beans and grind - if all constant it's more than possible for great coffee cups to be made

The visual guide on the 2nd page is actually very useful.

 

[Swerd]

If I learned anything about coffee is you really want it freshly ground and roasted. Home roasting is not yet an option, but I do next best thing - I buy it locally from local coffee roasting shop.

Like audio - good coffee shouldn't be magic, but at least 90% science. Temperature, Time, Pressure, Coffee beans and grind - if all constant it's more than possible for great coffee cups to be made.

Good, you already know about fresh roasted and fresh ground. They were the major points I wanted to make. All the rest (coffee origin, roast level and method of brewing) is more about personal preference.

If you've found a local roaster then you're in great shape. There may be many of those in NYC. I only know of one, Gillies, in Brooklyn. I bought from them by ID. I thought their roasted products were good, but I eventually went with roasting my own, and Gillies green bean prices were more expensive. I think they do a lot of wholesale business in NY with restaurants.

Gillies Coffee Co.
150 19th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11232

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'm a cheap bastard and this blend so far is my favorite - very smooth and has a nice flavor
Fairway Life Begins at Ladder 40 - Fairway Market
I buy from local fairway store in BK, but they also sell it online ^^

Fairway also runs 10% Cyber Monday promo (only today)

my next best favorite is this place: Fresh Roasted Coffee Beans - Nicoletti Coffee
tiny and old (VERY italian ) mom and pop store - and they know their stuff

 

[Swerd]

Keep us posted on what maker you decide to get, and what your experience is with it.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Did I mentioned I am cheap?
Saeco Aroma Espresso Machine | Seattle Coffee Gear
This is hard deal to pass by - good be good starter machine, before I have space for much larger dual boiler Brevile

 

[Swerd]

The range of prices is bewildering. I wish I could offer some advice based on experience, but I have none. I only brew coffee by drip methods, and I use a cheap $30 twirly blade grinder.

The comparatively low price of the Saeco Aroma makes me wonder what it can't do, or how long it will take to fail. I hesitate to suggest espresso forum websites because you'll get suggestions for an even wider variety of price ranges. It might be similar to those posts here where a holiday shopper is wondering what speakers to get with his $800 budget and some overkill expert says you need to spend at least that much just for a subwoofer, and you really must have two. I wonder what the 18" subwoofer equivalent is for espresso makers ?

Considering what you've already learned, I think you'll probably do fine if you go with your gut instincts.

I'm a little jealous of all the coffee selection you have locally. My local grocery stores have what looks like a large selection, but nearly all of it is dark roast well beyond stale. That's fine for those who developed their taste at Charbuck's, but when I read the label and see the roaster is in Denver and the roast date was 2 months ago, I put it back on the shelf.

The ultimate cheapskate coffee lover buys green coffee beans (~$7/lb) and roasts his own each week .

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Reliability seems to be fine, however at $170 with machine is not without some drawbacks. Most important is steam wand - it's really hard to use.
Pressurized portafilter is pro/con depend who you ask. It makes the pulls quicker and always produces crema. No need to tamper the coffee.
On the neg - you can't quite dial the pressure and a simple mod is needed (break the pressure valve) to make it none-Pressurized pf - Then you get much more control of the pull - ie: grind and tamper strength

Heck, at this price I'll take a gamble. I wont use steam frequently anyhow

 

[bikemig]

I did some research a while ago on expresso machines but ended up punting (I had too many balls in the air as we were moving into a new house). That said, if you like brewed coffee (I do), the chemex system (which looks like something from a 1930s science experiment) makes seriously good brewed coffee: Chemex | Chemex® Coffeemakers & Filters

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

It certainly is possible to make good cup of Joe with Chemex, but the issue of time comes at high cost. I need my coffee cup done in a couple minutes (total prep) not few hours
Never was a big fan of drip coffee in general - I need something with more oumth or as coffee geeks would say - higher extraction

Update:
I ordered Black Saeco Aroma. Will keep you posted as this will be my 1st real espresso machine
Many reviews mentioned good grinder is required for a good cup - I think I got that covered already.

 

[bikemig]

I hear you. My wife can't handle the amount of time it takes to make coffee with a chemex either but she seems fine with it as long as I'm brewing, .

 

[Swerd]

I used a Melitta coffee maker for many years. Its very much like the Chemex, but is in two pieces. It makes great coffee, is cheap to buy, and couldn't be simpler. I still have it.

I had used many different autodrip coffee makers over the years, but I always liked coffee made in the Melitta better. Boiling water in a kettle gets the water at the right temperature for brewing (195° to 205°), and also boils all the chlorine out of the water before you pour it over the grounds.

Most autodrip makers get water only to about ~180°, and the flavor is off. There are now autodrip coffee makers (Technivorm and Bonavita) that do get water to the right temperature, but they're pricey. I've had a Technivorm for at least 5 years and I think its worth the price.

It certainly is possible to make good cup of Joe with Chemex, but the issue of time comes at high cost. I need my coffee cup done in a couple minutes (total prep) not few hours

OK, now I know what you think takes too long and is too complex .

Update:
I ordered Black Saeco Aroma. Will keep you posted as this will be my 1st real espresso machine

Great! Hope you like using it.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The range of prices is bewildering.
....
I wonder what the 18" subwoofer equivalent is for espresso makers ?

Maybe this ?

Franke Sinfonia 1-Step Super Automatic Espresso Machine - Franke Espresso Machines from Whole Latte Love

 

[avnetguy]

Did I mentioned I am cheap?

Then I won't bother to mention elektra ....

Steve

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Then I won't bother to mention elektra ....

Steve

No, you shouldn't, but for uninitiated reader - this is Elektra:

this one is $2500 and manual lever models starting from $1700

 

[Hi Ho]

I've had my Saeco Easy Superautomatic machine for years and it has been a good machine. I had to repair it once when something went wrong in the power supply but this machine has more than paid for itself. I wanted something super convenient and it doesn't get much easier than, add beans, water, and push the button. It took a little tweaking to get the grind right for the blend I use but once it's set I really don't have to mess with it. I get freshly roasted coffee from a local roaster.

I also have a Zojirushi Thermal Carafe Coffee Maker which I love. It makes a cup of coffee in couple of minutes and no hot plate is a big plus.

 

[j_garcia]

For coffee, we use this:

Amazon.com: Clever Coffee Dripper: Kitchen & Dining

with a gold filter. Simple and effective.

 

[TheWarrior]

Bialetti stainless steel stove top espresso for the win!
Bialetti Musa 4-Cup Stovetop Espresso Maker: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining

This is my daily coffee maker, and also serves well for camping too!

I use 2 tablespoons of grounds for each batch in my 6 cup maker, which is equal to one full size coffee cup. If you were to stuff the basket full 3-3.5 tablespoons and remove from heat before the pot is full, that espresso would rival ANY electronic machine and some commercial, specifically the ones with out lever action.

Point is, if you've got $500 laying around and think those electronic machines are worth a damn, forget it! Find a Krups on sale for $100 and call it a day. The electronic ones WILL fail, how much do you want to be out when they do?

You need to step up to a $2000 rotary pump with E61 brew group. Its called that because it was patented in 1961 as a nice simple commercial design that is virtually indestructible. A friend of mine has the Vetrano and I simply have never had a better shot. Lever action is the ONLY way to go so you can control 'blonding.' (a view of the crema as it is being pulled will go from brown to blonde, the lighter it becomes the less flavor is being extracted)

Chris Coffee Service - NEWLY DESIGNED Vetrano Rotary by Quick Mill

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Bialetti stainless steel stove top espresso for the win!
Bialetti Musa 4-Cup Stovetop Espresso Maker: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining

This is my daily coffee maker, and also serves well for camping too!

I use 2 tablespoons of grounds for each batch in my 6 cup maker, which is equal to one full size coffee cup. If you were to stuff the basket full 3-3.5 tablespoons and remove from heat before the pot is full, that espresso would rival ANY electronic machine and some commercial, specifically the ones with out lever action.

Point is, if you've got $500 laying around and think those electronic machines are worth a damn, forget it! Find a Krups on sale for $100 and call it a day. The electronic ones WILL fail, how much do you want to be out when they do?

You need to step up to a $2000 rotary pump with E61 brew group. Its called that because it was patented in 1961 as a nice simple commercial design that is virtually indestructible. A friend of mine has the Vetrano and I simply have never had a better shot. Lever action is the ONLY way to go so you can control 'blonding.' (a view of the crema as it is being pulled will go from brown to blonde, the lighter it becomes the less flavor is being extracted)

Chris Coffee Service - NEWLY DESIGNED Vetrano Rotary by Quick Mill

As mentioned I already use Moka Pot (very, very similar to Musa) but the prep is a bit too long (including cleaning b'ween shots) - After 5 years with it - it's getting long in tooth - I want a new toy. I do like the result, which took me a while to dial for perfect shot, but I'd like higher and more crema, which moka simply can't do

The technique I use I found here:
Moka Pot – Stumptown Coffee Roasters

I've decided on the cheap starter machine right now which I'll learn and next step will be better grinder and much bigger and better machine, which I simply now don't have a space in the kitchen for ether - Will need to upgrade the kitchen to much bigger before switching espresso machine

Thanks for chiming in !