Eminence 6A

[Twexcom]

Hello.

For those that don't already know, local stores here have very few good speakers to choose from, and I have been gathering the parts to assemble new speakers one by one. I already bought one of the tweeters, and am getting the next one next month, and I want to get the midrange at the same time.

The tweeter is to be crossed over at 5,000 hz.

Does anyone know this midrange? The manufacturer's frequency response graph is on the following page, but I don't know if I can trust it as a guideline...

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

 

[j_garcia]

You don't think you can trust the MANUFACTURER'S specs? I'd say they are a good starting point, but individual drivers do vary a little. In that case, get a WT3 Woofer Tester from Parts Express to get the actual readings once you have the drivers.

How exactly have you decided on these drivers? Have you heard them? How do you know they are going to work together? What sort of crossover do you intend to design for them? Looking at that chart, 5Khz is already the point at which that driver starts to naturally roll off, which I am sort of thinking would be not such a great plan.

 

[GranteedEV]

Hello.

For those that don't already know, local stores here have very few good speakers to choose from, and I have been gathering the parts to assemble new speakers one by one. I already bought one of the tweeters, and am getting the next one next month, and I want to get the midrange at the same time.

The tweeter is to be crossed over at 5,000 hz.

Does anyone know this midrange? The manufacturer's frequency response graph is on the following page, but I don't know if I can trust it as a guideline...

Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

a 6" woofer does not want to be crossed over at 5khz. this one looks like it's in breakup above 3khz and either way you'd have a serious disconnect in the off-axis response.

A better idea if your crossover frequency is limited to ~5khz would be to use a small midrange like this:

Faital Pro 3FE20

and a larger midwoofer.

After this, you will still need to develop an actually useful crossover, which i'm not sure you have know know-how to do based on your posts.

 

[j_garcia]

Yes, 5Khz is well above the range that this driver looks like it should be crossed over.

I would highly recommend you go with a pre-designed kit if you are interested in a level of DIY, but designing from scratch is not as simple as I think you are hoping it will be.

 

[GranteedEV]

designing from scratch is not as simple as I think you are hoping it will be.

Exactly. +1

 

[Twexcom]

You don't think you can trust the MANUFACTURER'S specs? I'd say they are a good starting point, but individual drivers do vary a little. In that case, get a WT3 Woofer Tester from Parts Express to get the actual readings once you have the drivers.

How exactly have you decided on these drivers? Have you heard them? How do you know they are going to work together? What sort of crossover do you intend to design for them? Looking at that chart, 5Khz is already the point at which that driver starts to naturally roll off, which I am sort of thinking would be not such a great plan.

I was worried that they were lying. If it is usually accurate, then I will continue to trust them.

 

[Twexcom]

a 6" woofer does not want to be crossed over at 5khz. this one looks like it's in breakup above 3khz and either way you'd have a serious disconnect in the off-axis response.

A better idea if your crossover frequency is limited to ~5khz would be to use a small midrange like this:

Faital Pro 3FE20

and a larger midwoofer.

After this, you will still need to develop an actually useful crossover, which i'm not sure you have know know-how to do based on your posts.

So far, I only bought one part, and that was the tweeter, which was thousands of dollars here (awful economy), and because I already bought that, the tweeter cannot be changed, so I am going to have to choose a midrange that can be crossed over at 5 khz.

The Eminence 6A is supposed to be a midrange...Anyway, remember that these speakers I want are not for bass at all, only midrange and treble, a larger woofer should not be necessary.

The bass isn't part of this discussion yet, that has to be dealt with further down the road when I am ready to buy a pre-made subwoofer.

Can I just buy a small midrange that can work properly at 5 khz similar to the Faital Pro one and use it with that same Eminence?

The Eminence is already too difficult to pay for, and there is a problem with the availability of parts in my area (Jamaica).

I can hardly find anything at all. I am going to have to search for a midrange to supplement the Eminence 6.5 inch one.

Ordering parts online is too complicated and costly for me, and I have to do it through someone else.

 

[Twexcom]

Yes, 5Khz is well above the range that this driver looks like it should be crossed over.

I would highly recommend you go with a pre-designed kit if you are interested in a level of DIY, but designing from scratch is not as simple as I think you are hoping it will be.

I know that it is going to be complicated, and I am willing to gradually work through the process.

WMaX scared me with that warning in the past and I know I am in for a hell of a lot of trouble.

I agree that a pre-designed kit would be easier, but, I don't have much money, and unfortunately, I have never even seen such a thing here...

There is little to nothing available here.

I intend to buy crossovers, though.

This will be a gradual project assembled one piece at a time.

Please bear with me.

 

[GranteedEV]

The Eminence 6A is supposed to be a midrange...

I imagine It will be fine from around ~250hz to ~2khz. That is the midrange essentially.

Due to the high tuning frequency for a vent, it would probably have difficulty blending into a sub IMO.

Well, either way, it's alright as a midbass.

The real issue is that it's not a treble speaker. It's too big and lossy at those frequencies. You need something to handle from 2khz to 5khz.

It's better to have something cover from ~30hz to 5khz.

Since the passband is only ~100hz to ~400hz for a midbass, it just makes sense to use a bigger woofer and get a good integration to the subwoofer.

Can I just buy a small midrange that can work properly at 5 khz similar to the Faital Pro one and use it with that same Eminence?

THe same eminence "can" be used, but it barely gets to 80hz with a vent. If you plan to use a midrange that can get down to 400hz, then it's better IMO to use a bass driver that can get down to 100hz without a vent.

I intend to buy crossovers, though.

When you say that... you do mean active crossovers right?

 

[Twexcom]

I imagine It will be fine from around ~250hz to ~2khz. That is the midrange essentially.

Due to the high tuning frequency for a vent, it would probably have difficulty blending into a sub IMO.

Well, either way, it's alright as a midbass.

The real issue is that it's not a treble speaker. It's too big and lossy at those frequencies. You need something to handle from 2khz to 5khz.

It's better to have something cover from ~30hz to 5khz.

Since the passband is only ~100hz to ~400hz for a midbass, it just makes sense to use a bigger woofer and get a good integration to the subwoofer.



THe same eminence "can" be used, but it barely gets to 80hz with a vent. If you plan to use a midrange that can get down to 400hz, then it's better IMO to use a bass driver that can get down to 100hz without a vent.



When you say that... you do mean active crossovers right?

Ok. The local store has two other choices which I wasn't sure about: The Selenium 8PW3 Woofer: http://lautsprechershop.de/pdf/selenium/selenium_8pw3.pdf

I was worried that the sound quality of the 8pw3 wouldn't be adequate, but I haven't heard it yet.

The other is the Eminence Alpha 8A:
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Alpha_8A.pdf

The Alpha 8A is more expensive than the Alpha 6A, however, if the 8A is better, I will understand and try to scrape up the additional funds for it.

Would a better setup be possible with those two?

It is very important that I can find a way to make do with those three models alone, because I don't have much to choose from.

If there is any way to make it work, I need to know.

Everything I see here is big, cheap, low-quality car speakers like Bumper, Zebra, Nippon America.

About the tweeter, which is: http://www.jblselenium.com/marcas/upload/b3ce77f5cd3f5ebf78f0decca6f2a701.pdf

Just in case that graph helps you to come up with a solution for me.

I haven't looked at the crossovers yet.

Do they have to be active? Or will I be ok with passive?

Thank you for your time.

 

[GranteedEV]

The problem is still the midrange. Going from a 6" midbass to an 8" midbass has some benefits in the lower registers, but it can only work if you've got a (good) 3 or 4 inch midrange to cover the rest.

I haven't looked at the crossovers yet.

Well you couldn't have. The crossover needs to be customized for the drivers' individual frequency response and impedance curve in the finished baffle, as well as their phase interaction.

Do they have to be active?

Not really. But you said you intend to buy a crossover. You can only buy an active crossover (IE DCX2496 or MiniDSP) and get decent results. For a passive crossover you can buy parts, but the actual values are part of the design process. You can't "buy" a design that doesn't exist.

Or will I be ok with passive?

...Assuming you know what you're doing... considering the crossover design is essentially 70 percent or more of the loudspeaker design.

 

[templemaners]

I agree that a pre-designed kit would be easier, but, I don't have much money, and unfortunately, I have never even seen such a thing here...

Please bear with me.

If you don't have much money, why did you spend thousands of dollars on a tweeter (your words) that you don't seem to have a good plan on what to do with it?

I think you need to look harder for finding a kit or an already constructed pair of speakers instead of what you're doing now. It sounds like you're well on your way to wasting your money at this point.

 

[Twexcom]

If you don't have much money, why did you spend thousands of dollars on a tweeter (your words) that you don't seem to have a good plan on what to do with it?

I think you need to look harder for finding a kit or an already constructed pair of speakers instead of what you're doing now. It sounds like you're well on your way to wasting your money at this point.

I really don't have much, in USD it is $26 for that tweeter. I meant that I am buying the parts one by one.

Sort of like: $26 here, then another $26 next month, then the midrange. I can't buy everything all at once.

I'm learning from this. I really do want to learn how to build these things from scratch, and, everyone has to start somewhere, right?

I only got one tweeter so far, and you people are helping me choose the rest of the parts, so this should turn out ok.

 

[Twexcom]

The problem is still the midrange. Going from a 6" midbass to an 8" midbass has some benefits in the lower registers, but it can only work if you've got a (good) 3 or 4 inch midrange to cover the rest.



Well you couldn't have. The crossover needs to be customized for the drivers' individual frequency response and impedance curve in the finished baffle, as well as their phase interaction.



Not really. But you said you intend to buy a crossover. You can only buy an active crossover (IE DCX2496 or MiniDSP) and get decent results. For a passive crossover you can buy parts, but the actual values are part of the design process. You can't "buy" a design that doesn't exist.



...Assuming you know what you're doing... considering the crossover design is essentially 70 percent or more of the loudspeaker design.

Ok, I think I understand now, the active ones are universal, and the universal ones are too specific?

The store owner says that he is getting crossovers shortly. I guess those are active, then.

I just remembered exactly what active crossovers are this morning. I haven't looked into this type of thing in a long time.

Thanks for telling me about the crossover. I want nothing other than an active one now.

There is another store that has crossovers too, I will check their prices as well. They are usually cheaper anyway.

Does the crossover quality have a major impact on the sound quality, or I won't have to worry much about that when looking around in the store?

So I am going to have to get a 3 or 4 inch midrange then.

Now that that is settled, which of the three midbass speakers should I choose? (as I said, there aren't any other choices for me)

Alpha 6A 6.5 inch, Alpha 8A 8 inch, or Selenium 8pw3?

Thank you for your time, and you are definitely helping me learn plenty.

I want to learn about these things. I have been looking for a book.

 

[Twexcom]

By the way, I know people that were assembling enormous speaker systems (multiple thousands of watts). They are not high quality, but, since they require large midranges to be loud, I wonder how they overcome the issue of blending them in with the tweeters, since large midranges tend to have a problem with higher frequencies.

 

[templemaners]

Ok, I think I understand now, the active ones are universal, and the universal ones are too specific?

The store owner says that he is getting crossovers shortly. I guess those are active, then.

I just remembered exactly what active crossovers are this morning. I haven't looked into this type of thing in a long time.

Thanks for telling me about the crossover. I want nothing other than an active one now.

When it comes to crossovers, you can't get specific enough. Active crossovers like the MiniDSP or DCX2496 can be used on a wide range of speakers, provided you know how to program them.

The other thing that you'll need to look into if you get into active crossovers is amplification - each driver is going to need a power source.

There is another store that has crossovers too, I will check their prices as well. They are usually cheaper anyway.

Crossovers have the be designed specifically for the drivers involved. Off the shelf premade crossovers are, to put it kindly, junk.

Does the crossover quality have a major impact on the sound quality, or I won't have to worry much about that when looking around in the store?

This question alone is proof enough that you're in over your head. Yes, crossovers have a huge impact on sound quality.

So I am going to have to get a 3 or 4 inch midrange then.

Now that that is settled, which of the three midbass speakers should I choose? (as I said, there aren't any other choices for me)

Alpha 6A 6.5 inch, Alpha 8A 8 inch, or Selenium 8pw3?

Thank you for your time, and you are definitely helping me learn plenty.

I want to learn about these things. I have been looking for a book.

Look for a book way before you look for a midbass driver.

 

[j_garcia]

You can't just piece together random parts and put them in a box and expect to end up with a good sounding speaker. I could go out and buy the best drivers in the world, but without a crossover to get them to work together they may not (likely won't) sound good together just by slapping them in a box together. Without some basic understanding of how a speaker actually works and at least some minimum gear to test what you are doing, you have no idea what you will end up with.

 

[Twexcom]

By the way, I know people that were assembling enormous speaker systems (multiple thousands of watts). They are not high quality, but, since they require large midranges to be loud, I wonder how they overcome the issue of blending them in with the tweeters, since large midranges tend to have a problem with higher frequencies.

Does anyone know? There has to be a way around this.

 

[GranteedEV]

Does anyone know? There has to be a way around this.

"Ignorance is Bliss"

 

[j_garcia]

Does anyone know? There has to be a way around this.

"Large" midrange doesn't mean anything, it is the capability of the specific driver in question. Just because a driver is larger doesn't mean it won't play higher, though the larger you go, the harder it is to find one that will play well higher up. So if a proper driver is chosen, it may be able to do this.

On the other side of that, and far more likely, is having tweeters that can extend low enough to handle that range or in order to use a larger midbass driver that does not extend as high. OR, as mentioned earlier, having another midrange that is crossed between the tweeter and bass driver, aka a 3-way design. Not every speaker is just a woofer and tweeter.