Help with a new system: $1500-$2000

[ankurdesai]

I'd like to install a decent home theater in our living room as soon as we clear escrow. I'd like to spend about $1500-$2000. A few notes:

1. Room design is a little funny. Basically, there's a fireplace in a half wall that kind of separates the living room from the dining room; the only logical place for the TV is above that fireplace. (I am too new to post a link, but if anyone is interested in seeing a picture, please let me know and I will build up my post count.) It's kind of an open concept-- the dimensions of the viewing space are approximately 15X12. Ceilings about 12 feet high.

2. I am going to have this stuff professionally installed; I might like to have the components in a closet somewhere. Can anyone tell me how much I should expect to spend on mounting TV and in-wall wiring of components to a closet about 75 feet away from the TV?

3. Aesthetics will be important to my wife, so I would appreciate recommendations that take that into account. What that means is that I will make small compromises on price and performance based on looks-- but I won't make huge ones. I might want ceiling speakers, if they'll sound good. Wall-mounted front and center channels will probably make more sense for our room aesthetics than floorstanding ones.

4. Components are pretty standard. I have a display, cable box, Blu-Ray, AppleTV. Need a universal remote, as well as speakers / receiver.

5. We will almost 100% use the system for watching TV and movies. No gaming and very little music.

Thanks in advance for your excellent recommendations.

 

[Steve81]

Hi there, and welcome to the forums.

Before you start getting bombarded with speaker suggestions (and there are many brands out there to choose from in your price range), it might help to get an idea of what you have experience with already. A lot of this comes down to subjective opinion, and IME one man's meat is another man's poison.

Also, I see you've noted the dimensions of the listening space, but that you have an open floor plan. Is it possible to get dimensions of the entire space as well? This helps in selecting a suitable subwoofer.

Finally, one comment on your plans with respect to the equipment closet: a 75+ foot distance for HDMI cables and speaker wire is probably not a great idea.

 

[ImcLoud]

I wouldnt go 75 ft away with you avr, that is far...

As far as speakers and avr, you have the budget to go with something decent, but in my experience the wall hanging and ceiling speakers dont fall into the category...
I hate to post with out recommending anything so here you go... Over budget but it is where I would be aiming...



Denon AVR this is just an example choose the one that has the options you want- DENON AVR-1912 7.1ch Network A/V Home Theater Receiver w/ Airplay | Accessories4less
3 of these Newegg.com - Definitive Technology Mythos Eight On-Wall Main and Center Channel L/C/R Loudspeakerr (Black) Each
these for surrounds- Newegg.com - Definitive Technology Mythos Gem Compact Main or Surround Speaker (Black) Pair

Sub depends on your overall room size, Im thinking small room stf2 big room vtf2 {hsu research}

But like I said that will put you over at $2600+

If you want to stay under $2000, this wouldnt be bad. Around $1900--
VTF2 sub $615, denon avr $320
2{l r}- Newegg.com - Open Box: Definitive Technology Mythos Two On-Wall or Table top Speaker Each
1center- Newegg.com - Definitive Technology Mythos Three Table Top and On-Wall Center Channel Speaker Each
pr of these for surrounds, WHARFEDALE DIAMOND DFS BI-POLE SURROUND SPEAKER (PR) at Music Direct

 

[ankurdesai]

Thanks

Got it, and thanks for the welcome. For clarity, what I mean is that the wires would have to run through the walls for 75' -- in other words, they would have to go around 3 walls, with a total distance of 75'. I suppose an installer could also do it through the ceiling, which would diminish the length significantly, perhaps to around 25' or so.

I'd say the whole floor plan for living room and dining room combined is around 25' X 17' (it's not quite a rectangle, as parts of it are wider than others, but that's probably close on average).

I have almost no experience with hi-fi speakers, so I don't have a lot to guide myself on this front. What brands do you think I should try to sample? Anyone know of a good shop in the Santa Monica area I should visit to get a sense of what my tastes are?

 

[ankurdesai]

Denon 1912

Regarding the Denon 1912-- do I need AirPlay if I already have an AppleTV?

The 1712 is only $250 at a4l, and I'm not sure I see a huge difference between it and the 1912-- how important are the ethernet firmware upgrades?

 

[Steve81]

Got it, and thanks for the welcome. For clarity, what I mean is that the wires would have to run through the walls for 75' -- in other words, they would have to go around 3 walls, with a total distance of 75'. I suppose an installer could also do it through the ceiling, which would diminish the length significantly, perhaps to around 25' or so.

That will definitely help.

I'd say the whole floor plan for living room and dining room combined is around 25' X 17' (it's not quite a rectangle, as parts of it are wider than others, but that's probably close on average).

So we're working with a fairly large space then. Because the listening space itself is relatively small, you don't necessarily need ultra-high output from either the speakers or the subwoofer to hit respectable volumes at the listening position; however, with a total space of that size, you'd probably be best served with a good sized ported subwoofer that can dig deep without needing much boost from room gain (which I wouldn't expect much of).

I have almost no experience with hi-fi speakers, so I don't have a lot to guide myself on this front. What brands do you think I should try to sample? Anyone know of a good shop in the Santa Monica area I should visit to get a sense of what my tastes are?

I'm not familiar with the area, but to toss out a few brands you can give a listen to:

For Klipsch, B&W, Def Tech, JBL, Polk, and Infinity, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to find something to sample. Moving into brands that tend to be a little harder to find (not that you're necessarily going to find the top end offerings of the aforementioned brands in a Best Buy), you can look for Paradigm, KEF, PSB, and NHT for a start.

 

[Steve81]

Regarding the Denon 1912-- do I need AirPlay if I already have an AppleTV?

No, the AppleTV will let you stream music.

 

[ankurdesai]

Another thought

Another consideration (and I apologize for the indecisiveness-- I am just starting this project today) is that perhaps I would like to have a flexible system that I can add to over time. The down payment for the house is taking a lot out of my budget, but when I can afford more I would like to be able to consider upgrading instead of just replacing. To that end, I am considering getting a receiver with pre-outs; also thinking about getting a 7.1 channel model so I can add speakers in the future. 7.1 receivers with pre-outs tend to be a few hundred dollars more expensive than the Denons you guys have already recommended, so I was also thinking of skimping a bit on the speakers to save some bread. Something like this:

Marantz SR5007 ($600 at a4l)
EnergyTake Classic 5.0 ($250 at crutchfield)
Hsu VTF-2 MK4 ($550 at mfr website-- does anyone know of a better deal?)

Total $1400. I think that way I will have a receiver / sub for the long-term, and can always upgrade with an amp and get nicer speakers when the budget allows.

How's that look?

 

[Steve81]

I think that way I will have a receiver / sub for the long-term, and can always upgrade with an amp and get nicer speakers when the budget allows.

The only modification I would make would be to get a good pair of speakers over a so-so set of five speakers to start with. You'll end up further ahead in the long run, and IMO good 2.1 beats mediocre 5.1 every time. Other than that, it's a path I'd guess more than a few here have taken.

 

[ankurdesai]

EnergyTake

So are the EnergyTakes going to provide so-so 5.0? The reviews are pretty good-- but then again the price is low enough that I should probably be skeptical.

What about those Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers? Are they an upgrade?

 

[Steve81]

So are the EnergyTakes going to provide so-so 5.0? The reviews are pretty good-- but then again the price is low enough that I should probably be skeptical.

It's relative. Compared with your average HTIB, the Energy Take 5 is pretty good, and they have received good reviews. Compared with a well executed product at 10x the price though, you can't expect miracles.

What about those Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers? Are they an upgrade?

Those who've tried them seem to be impressed. Unfortunately, I can't claim to have spent much time listening to them, let alone compare them to anything in something resembling a useful manner. I'd expect they'd provide a significant upgrade in a lot of aspects to the little Energy speakers, but I'll let others chip in here.

 

[ankurdesai]

Picture of the room

Is here:

I hope you can see what I mean by kind of a half-wall. The fireplace in the middle there divides the living room from the dining room-- but it doesn't close off either room completely.

I think that room arrangement eliminates floorstanding speakers-- the Tv is going to be above the fireplace, so there's nowhere for speakers of that size to go without having them sort of "hang out" awkwardly at the end of that half-wall.

 

[Steve81]

I'd start thinking about picking another spot to center a system... What does the other side of the room look like?

 

[ankurdesai]

Gotta make the best of a bad situation

The sofa has to go on the opposite wall-- it is a large sectional. There unfortunately isn't anywhere else to go with the setup. I'm also not really willing to make structural changes to the house itself (i.e., ripping out the fireplace, replacing those windows with a wall). I agree that it's a suboptimal situation.

 

[ImcLoud]

So are you set on wall hung or can you go with towers or bookshelfs?

I was thinking you needed wall hung speakers...

If you can go with towers or Bookshelfs, there are tons of options...
instead of spending money on the take system, I would go with a pair of ascend bookshelfs, either 170's 340's or 200's what ever you can afford, at least when you add on they will serve a purpose...

 

[ankurdesai]

I don't think I can do towers, but I can probably do bookshelves mounted to the wall. Or will those need to be a few feet away from a wall?

 

[ImcLoud]

I don't think I can do towers, but I can probably do bookshelves mounted to the wall. Or will those need to be a few feet away from a wall?

All of the ascends would except the 200's, I have heard the 200's in a complete surround sound system and they sound awesome {especially if you are 0 misic}... Not a bad option.. Cost would be around $700 for 5 of them..

As for the hsu sub the best price is $550 plus shipping, there was a b stock but probably gone by now..

If you went with 5 htm200se's you could always move them 5 200's to surround duty {l & r surround, l & r rears, and rear center} when you talk your wife into letting you get a 340se front stage , I can not say I heard a better home theater front stage than the 340's, I love mine, and the more power you put behind them the better they sound, just awesome speakers, they are essentially bookshelfs, and you can plug the port hole, especially if you are crossing them at 80hz... I have my center plugged, and it sounds great, the port gets you down low a little better, but mine are crossed at 100 so, I dont need them to make bass... although they do it well...

The only reason I didnt recommend them earlier is because you said you wanted something that looked good, these are plain jain cabinets, nothing fancy, squared corners, vinyl covered, and full face grills... Perfect for a dark theaters but if you are looking for something furniture grade, keep looking...

Also take a listen to the Wharfedale Diamond 10 bookshelfs, they sound really good, and their good looking speakers too...
My wife didnt want speakers in our formal parlor and she hardly complains about the wharfedales, there cabinets are very attractive..

 

[ImcLoud]

This is an awesome deal- Only around $700, I have listened to all of these except the center, VERY nice stuff... Should be able to audition somewhere near you...
And the rosewood looks awesome, thats the finish I have in the picture above...
WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10 CC (ROSEWOOD) **DEMO** at Music Direct
WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.1 ROSEWOOD **DEMO** at Music Direct
WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10 SR SURROUND SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

 

[ankurdesai]

Those Wharfedales look awesome.

So it looks like there are 3 main choices:

Pioneer A. Jones Phase 2 (4 BS-22, 1 C-22) = 5 speakers, $360 MSRP (I can probably dig around and find them a bit cheaper)

Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 = 6 speakers, $710 from Music Direct

Ascend HTM-200s = 5 speakers, $720 from Ascend's website.

I take it the Ascends and Wharfedales are much nicer than the Pioneers, right?

Looks like I've got some reviewing to do!

 

[ImcLoud]

I do prefer both the wharfedale and ascends over the pioneers, but the pioneers are half the price...
And the wharfedales are 5 speakers also...
The ascends are probably going to be the toughest to audition, they are id so you would have to have them shipped to you and then ship them back if you didnt like them and be responsible for all shipping costs...

I would take the WD's over the ascends {looks alone, sound quality is a tough call, Ive never a/bed them but I say the 200's}, and as far as the pioneers vs the WD's, I would spend the extra few hundred and buy them open box from music direct, they are built much better, the rosewood looks really nice, and they do sound really good... I would say that is a good step up, and you are really getting speakers that normally cost almost $1000 for around $710... I have bought demo stuff from MD before including my Jollida tube amp, and it was brand new in the box, even the supposedly demo wadia dac I bought from them came in a sealed box never opened ...

I like flat- warm, defined speakers, I dont worry about low bass much because I run subs in almost every system, IMO, I would rather let a 12 or 15" SUB woofer in its own cabinet with its own amplifier handle the bass vs an 8" woofer mounted in the same cabinet as my drivers and tweeters sicking up all that channels power for lows.

I hate anything bright sounding {and for some reason that is where a lot of the popular companies are going lately} and too forward mostly I find this to be in my tweeter preference, most of the speakers I prefer have soft / silk tweeters, metal tweeters and horns usually make me tired of listening fast. Where I can listen to my 2.2 or theater system for 12 hours with no fatigue..

So if you are looking for something neutral and laid back than take my advice on what to audition... If you want a more in your face kind of sound, Energy, Klipsch, B&W, and a few others offer plenty of selection...

Metalic tweeters do have their strong points, they reproduce high pitched noise very well, cymbals sound super real through an Audex gold tweeter...
And if you ever change your mind about the towers WD Diamond 10.6's sound awesome...