bare wire or banana plugs

[j_garcia]

I strongly do not recommend those. They're single-use bananas, because the plug is so easily kinked.

The "Nakamichi" plugs with the standard banana end may be fine, but the Z-tooth ones are just crap.



Ditto. My favorite bananas are still the 95-cent nickel-plated ones from PE. If they would come out with a series of those with double set screws I'd never have looked elsewhere...

You can simply insert a pencil or something similar into them to respread them to regain tension. The reality is, ALL banana plugs have exactly the same issue, only these are the simplest ones to get the tension back into.

I've been using BFA style bananas for YEARS. They are most certainly NOT single use; I just recently moved and had zero issues plugging my speakers back in.

 

[Irvrobinson]

This is just a general question for anyone. Why do newer receivers offer the option to Bi-amp your speakers using 2 of the receiver's internal amps, and state in the manual that you will hear an improvement in the sound quality, when a lot of people think there is no benefit?? Is there anyone out there who who uses this feature and does here an improvement in sound??

IMHO, the receivers that offer bi-amping do it mostly because they can, and it looks like a cool feature to many consumers.

There are arguments for why passive bi-amping can provide benefits, but the problem is that most people don't experience these conditions with most home speaker systems, hence all of the warnings that passive bi-amping doesn't make a difference.

For example, if you have a speaker system with a crossover that allows the woofers to be powered separately from midrange and HF drivers it is possible that the lowest frequencies, on some material, could be clipping the amp, and therefore degrading the sound coming through the midrange and HF drivers. I've seen it argued that the lower relative power of receiver amp channels makes this more likely. It strikes me as not impossible, and if you had inefficient speakers that could play very loud, well, I suppose there could be a benefit to passive bi-amping. I'd guess the most likely way for this to occur is if you're applying equalization to boost the bass frequencies. Are you?

Then there's the argument that for some speaker systems with multiple large woofers, or systems that present complex loads to an amp (like phase angles that become capacitive at certain frequencies in combination with low impedance and relative inefficiency) that giving the different sections of each speaker a separate power amplifier results in better sound, due to less stress in some way on the amps. Designs with multiple large woofers, for example, can present the amp with "back EMF", which some think can theoretically negatively impact amplifier performance. (I've never seen measurements that prove this.) These are other "maybe" categories, but do they describe your speakers? Just because a speaker has a lot of drivers doesn't necessarily make it a complex load. On my 1st generation Legacy Audio Focus speakers (ca 1996) I was convinced I got an audible benefit from passive bi-amping, but that was a really weird design that presented a very unusual load on the amps, and they could play very loud, but even Legacy doesn't build them like that anymore. As a counter example, my current six driver per channel Revel speakers don't seem to benefit at all from passive bi-amping.

So the advice that passive bi-amping is useless may be an overstatement, but I think it is a very slight one, if it is.

 

[DS-21]

You can simply insert a pencil or something similar into them to respread them to regain tension. The reality is, ALL banana plugs have exactly the same issue, only these are the simplest ones to get the tension back into.

I've been using BFA style bananas for YEARS. They are most certainly NOT single use; I just recently moved and had zero issues plugging my speakers back in.

I've been using bananas for about 15 years. The only ones that did not "just work" upon re-use have been the "Nakamichi" sawtooth ones.

They also get physically kinked rather than just losing tension. If I saved any of mine, maybe I'll post a picture tomorrow.

 

[j_garcia]

I've been using bananas for about 15 years. The only ones that did not "just work" upon re-use have been the "Nakamichi" sawtooth ones.

They also get physically kinked rather than just losing tension. If I saved any of mine, maybe I'll post a picture tomorrow.

You mean the metal deforms? Like they are just cheaply made? I don't use the Nak plugs, I use different ones and have not had this issue. Thanks for the info.

 

[fuzz092888]

I have to agree with Irv, bi-amping is mostly useless. I've tried it before and I couldn't tell any difference. I've tried in store with a few different speakers, and then at home when I first got my onkyo just for the heck of it. Maybe.....mayyyybeee the speakers played a little louder, but it wasn't a huge, or even a medium sized difference and there were certainly no improvements in sound quality that I could tell.

If I felt my speakers were underpowered I'd just get an external amp that pushed more wpc.

 

[j_garcia]

If I felt my speakers were underpowered I'd just get an external amp that pushed more wpc.

^This is the answer right here. If you need more power...then get more power. Passive biamping isn't the way to go about that.

 

[Grador]

^This is the answer right here. If you need more power...then get more power. Passive biamping isn't the way to go about that.

I completely agree with this point, but I'm wondering: can anyone thing of any reasons why passive bi-amping could have a negative impact? (Assuming identical amplifiers)

 

[DS-21]

You mean the metal deforms? Like they are just cheaply made? I don't use the Nak plugs, I use different ones and have not had this issue. Thanks for the info.

Yes. I wasn't speaking to all Z-tooth plugs. Only those specific ones. Others may well be fine. I can't speak to that, as the "Nakamichi" ones are the only ones I've used.

Likewise, the standard-style bananas from "Nakamichi" may be fine as well. I can't speak to that, having never used them.

 

[DS-21]

I completely agree with this point, but I'm wondering: can anyone thing of any reasons why passive bi-amping could have a negative impact? (Assuming identical amplifiers)

With the same amp, probably not. Just wasted money, and wasted real estate.

With different amps, they could have different gain structures, and the typical audiophile might not have the technical acumen to properly match levels.

 

[slipperybidness]

I completely agree with this point, but I'm wondering: can anyone thing of any reasons why passive bi-amping could have a negative impact? (Assuming identical amplifiers)

More complicated setup = more chances to make a mistake

 

[norml4721]

Bunch of bannanas

Hi :

Electronicly there is no difference between straight wire and bannana plugs. If you use srtaight wire on your amp end make shure there are no stray strands of wire that could cause a short circuit if they touch another wire or ground(the back panel is ground) i used to repair receivers and the older ones had no protection(The newer more expensive ones have protection circuits that shut down the receiver before damage) , I did more expensive repairs for this reason. That is probably why the bannana plug terminals were designed in. Although I am to lazy to buy bannana plugs and wire them myself. I am just VERY CAREFUL when connecting wires.

Best of luck, Norm L

 

[96cobra10101]

I strongly do not recommend those. They're single-use bananas, because the plug is so easily kinked.

The "Nakamichi" plugs with the standard banana end may be fine, but the Z-tooth ones are just crap.

Bummer. Didn't know I bought "crap". Been using them for a year now with 2 different receivers and 2 amps and didn't have any issues or "kinks"? Anyhow, I better replace my "crap" before they get "kinky". Who can argue with 15 years of banana plug experience.

 

[signalshifter]

From Blue Jeans Cable

To Terminate or Not?

While it's common to use banana plugs or spade lugs to terminate speaker cable, one option worth considering is simply using bare wire termination--just buy the speaker cable raw, strip the ends, and insert them into the side holes in the binding posts. Whether this will work in your application depends largely on how big the holes in your binding posts are, and whether you can successfully access them to get the wire properly inserted (not an easy task on many surround receivers). When it's feasible to do, we like to use bare wire termination because it's simple and inexpensive, and because it avoids making additional connection points (e.g. wire to banana plug) which can fail.

 

[j_garcia]

From Blue Jeans Cable

To Terminate or Not?

While it's common to use banana plugs or spade lugs to terminate speaker cable, one option worth considering is simply using bare wire termination--just buy the speaker cable raw, strip the ends, and insert them into the side holes in the binding posts. Whether this will work in your application depends largely on how big the holes in your binding posts are, and whether you can successfully access them to get the wire properly inserted (not an easy task on many surround receivers). When it's feasible to do, we like to use bare wire termination because it's simple and inexpensive, and because it avoids making additional connection points (e.g. wire to banana plug) which can fail.

While this is 100% true, they also sell pre-terminated speaker wires. Bare wire IS the best method, but it isn't always the easiest. If you ever need to move things around, or do any in-home auditioning or change speakers frequently, then you want connectors.

 

[Irvrobinson]

While this is 100% true, they also sell pre-terminated speaker wires. Bare wire IS the best method, but it isn't always the easiest. If you ever need to move things around, or do any in-home auditioning or change speakers frequently, then you want connectors.

I'm a long-time BJC customer, but I don't buy their position on bare wire. Properly and securely terminated bananas or spades will make a more robust connection to a binding post, with more surface area for conduction than you can get with bare wire, unless you could wrap the wire multiple times around the binding post, which you usually can't. I'll take well-designed spades or bananas (or SpeakOns, for that matter) over bare wire every time.

 

[markw]

The only time I'd ever recommend bare wire is when the equipment has those pesky push-to-insert type connectors like was used on vintage gear. I also don't recommend tinning the wire as coppers malleability allows it to make a better connection when the crimp bites down on the wire. Definitely twist it tightly and make danged sure there are no "stragglers".

Fortunately, those connectors seem to be obsolete nowadays

 

[little wing]

^This is the answer right here. If you need more power...then get more power. Passive biamping isn't the way to go about that.

I was just thing about the taking advantage of the bi-amping feature of the receiver.

 

[little wing]

While this is 100% true, they also sell pre-terminated speaker wires. Bare wire IS the best method, but it isn't always the easiest. If you ever need to move things around, or do any in-home auditioning or change speakers frequently, then you want connectors.

good point. connecters are easier to connect and disconnect

 

[j_garcia]

I was just thing about the taking advantage of the bi-amping feature of the receiver.

I understand, but just because it has the feature doesn't mean it will be a benefit, nor does it mean you have to use it. All of the power from a receiver is still coming from the same single power supply, so the benefits are always going to be limited by that. To truly biamplify, you would require separate power supplies for each portion of the speaker, at which point you may as just get one amp with enough power to do the job.

 

[runswithscisors]

While this is 100% true, they also sell pre-terminated speaker wires. Bare wire IS the best method, but it isn't always the easiest. If you ever need to move things around, or do any in-home auditioning or change speakers frequently, then you want connectors.

Oddly enouh, while I was auditioning speakers I noticed that only one store I went into used bananna plugs on their display gear. I had one local place move speakers from the display/showroom to the listening room without a bananna plug anywhere. The one place that did use bananna plugs, the "sales engineer" had a little "tool" he "plugged" the banannas into between speaker changes. I'll asume it was a tensioner/spreader???

Just my observations.