preamps and sound quality

[walter duque]

Bass is good actually.... I run a psb sub for HT but they kick well and tight for stereo music. I do need to upgrade my sub down the line though for HT... I want a bigger punch! Thinking SVS one day.

I think you need a couple of good subs and you're good to go.

 

[walter duque]

Bass is good actually.... I run a psb sub for HT but they kick well and tight for stereo music. I don't use a sub for music. I do need to upgrade my sub down the line though for HT... I want a bigger punch! Thinking SVS one day.

It seems to me that you are disappointed with your speaker purchase. You spend a lot of money for very little and you're trying to justify it. Not saying that they are not good speaker, don't get me wrong, but certain people have certain needs. I need speakers (if needed) that can put out 110 db+ all day long and can handle tremendous power.

 

[GranteedEV]

. Compare a Rav4 to a Audi SUV... The audi is going to be the more comfy ride. Not the exact analogy but you get the point. So why do companies like Mcintosh make their $5k+ amps when someone can go out and buy a cheaper amp like a Yamaha (which is a great product - I used to own one before my Elite) if they don't improve something in your listening experience?

Look, here's the deal. Returning to your own auto analogy, let's change it to sedans.

A yamaha might be like a Toyota Camry. Truly nothing special. A high power McIntosh is no doubt more like an LS600h in comparision...

Now here's the deal. Your speakers are like a school zone. Who cares what speed your car can do on the autobahn, if you're in a school zone? Sure, the mcintosh might get you an extra stare from envious people, but in that school zone are you really going any faster?

Some speakers truly do benefit from high power electronics, but they need to be able to take the power and they need to be the sort that benefits from the power.

Okay, so you might ask, what's the difference between $2000/pr Emotiva XPA-1 1000wpc monoblock amps and the 10000/pr equivalent mcintosh amps?

Well for starters, place of construction. One is made in asia and the other is made in north america.

Beyond that, i don't want to say it outright, but I think you know what I think. Name recognition is a significant part of this industry. I've seen $1000 worth of amp sold for around $6000.

Now you're thinking "luxury cars are just a better experience than non luxury cars... ain't it the same with amps?"

... all I can say is, amps are amps. You're not sitting in it.

 

[walter duque]

Beyond that, i don't want to say it outright, but I think you know what I think. Name recognition is a significant part of this industry. I've seen $1000 worth of amp sold for around $6000.

Grant, you are so right check this out Verastarr Audio - Studio 6.4 Amplifier 8k and the OEM's (which happens to be a friend of mine) AB International Amps - Amplifiers $1850.00. Same amp different faceplate.

 

[GranteedEV]

Definitely - purchasing from companies that OEM for other companies is a very smart choice.

I'm pretty sold on my next amp being dual DIY Hypex NC400

Though i'd kill for the chassis of a Marantz Reference series

 

[moves]

These are interesting arguments. I wish I could do a blind test to see for myself... I wonder if there is someone in here who could try and refute your arguments. There are tons of review people who review all these different equipment and have unique things to say about each one. Why is it that they can see the difference?

 

[walter duque]

These are interesting arguments. I wish I could do a blind test to see for myself... I wonder if there is someone in here who could try and refute your arguments. There are tons of review people who review all these different equipment and have unique things to say about each one. Why is it that they can see the difference?

It seems to me that the bottom line is, that you are dissapointed with the choice of speaker you purchased and now you are trying to convince yourself that they should and could sound better. Face it, we all make mistakes. Now that does'nt make them bad speakers. I have been wanting to buy a pair of these 82WC for years. I have been purchasing my speakers from this company for about 15 years. The owner want even sell them to me because he knows they will not fullfill my demands and they are great speakers build for a clientel with certain demands.

 

[jinjuku]

These are interesting arguments. I wish I could do a blind test to see for myself... I wonder if there is someone in here who could try and refute your arguments. There are tons of review people who review all these different equipment and have unique things to say about each one. Why is it that they can see the difference?

Post what city you live in. You never know when a member lives close. If you lived in Louisville I could bring over 4 or 5 amps

Try Emotiva but be prepared to pay shipping if you return. Go to Guitar Center and pick up a Crown XLS 1000 DriveCore. Heard nothing but great things about that amp. They have good return policy.

Just DO SOMETHING to answer that nagging questions of the Yamaha in the back of your mind.

 

[GranteedEV]

These are interesting arguments. I wish I could do a blind test to see for myself... I wonder if there is someone in here who could try and refute your arguments. There are tons of review people who review all these different equipment and have unique things to say about each one. Why is it that they can see the difference?

All amps are not the same.

If a person has 84db / 4 ohm 3-way speakers.with dual 10" long throw aluminum woofers, it'll quickly drive most receivers to their limits as ot probably has impedance dips below 2.5 ohm. Combined with the low sensitivity and high power handling, an ordinary amp will clip and warp the sound easily. A tube amp will clip even quicker but warp the sound more gracefully. An OTL or SET amp will warp the sound before it's even clipping. A high powered well designed amp will on the other hand sound reasonably effortless with strong dynamics. The audiophile reviewer will pick the most warped sound as his reference for sonic purity.

Beyond that, there are subtle distortions that can be heard at low listening levels in some lesser class ab amps. In the rest of the amps in the world they are just so insignificant that they can't be identified reliably under controlled conditions - time and time again.

the biggest difference I heard going from a receiver to an outbound 500wpc @ 4ohm amp was a bit more relaxation at high levels, but my speakers benefit from it because they have plenty of radiating surface area. Even then, my speakers and room far and away remain the source of 95%+ of the distortion in the system no matter what amp. Once I make the switch to a 15" acoustic elegance woofer, my systems' ability to handle power will skyrocket, but the need for power will drop exponentially as those things'll hit reference level peaks at my seat with 80 watts. without even getting started.

And some...most reviews.. are just full of B.S. from people with imagination. Maybe they heard a new detail. is that because of the amp or just the different listening session?

 

[agarwalro]

I've seen $1000 worth of amp sold for around $6000.

Grant, you are so right check this out Verastarr Audio - Studio 6.4 Amplifier 8k and the OEM's (which happens to be a friend of mine) AB International Amps - Amplifiers $1850.00. Same amp different faceplate.

Also, the Lexicon player which was a re-badged Oppo!!!!

Suckers .

 

[jinjuku]

It seems to me that the bottom line is, that you are dissapointed with the choice of speaker you purchased and now you are trying to convince yourself that they should and could sound better. Face it, we all make mistakes.

Just to be fair to Moves he may need to remove the Yamaha from the amplification equation to garner a bit more insight in to figuring out what or what may not be going on.

It's a credible step in certain circumstances and a step that should be low to no cost to do. What I want Moves to take away from this is that the cost of curiosity is not often free, but it also doesn't mean it has to be expensive.

OT question: What is the track he has on the website playing when you go to the Coherent Phase product page?

 

[agarwalro]

I'm pretty sold on my next amp being dual DIY Hypex NC400

A long time back I was toying with the idea of using the UcD's to make my Axioms into active speakers. (Just for kicks and fun experimentation on passive vs active speakers.)

I'm still looking into it and now I am curious if the DM Philharmonic's can be made into active ones! (Again, to use as a curiosity assuaging experiment on passive vs active crossovers and differences in sq.) I am sure this is going to be my next project since I got rid of my previous setup.

 

[GranteedEV]

Also, the Lexicon player which was a re-badged Oppo!!!!

Suckers .

Funny you should mention that

I am sure people will attack this player as a "rebadged" Oppo, so I went out and bought an Oppo BD-83 SE in order to fairly compare the two. First off, there is no comparison between the build quality of the two players. The Oppo is lighter and the buttons have a far less solid feel to them. The Lexicon is a taller, much heftier unit. Black levels were close, but the Lexicon had a more natural contrast and color palette than the Oppo. More importantly, the Lexicon was nearly totally silent when loading discs and changing tracks. Those familiar with the Oppo know it is a rather noisy player when loading discs, switching tracks and scanning, even sometimes for no apparent reason. The drive is in the Oppo is noisy enough to catch my attention during quiet passages in movies, while the Lexicon is inaudible during use at all times.

this guy thinks the lexicon had more natural contrast and color palette.

Even though it's the exact same product in a different chassis.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... There are tons of review people who review all these different equipment and have unique things to say about each one. Why is it that they can see the difference?

Well, it is like this: seeing the difference is easy, hearing a difference is the hard part.
Those reviewers you are reading are not doing a bias controlled listening comparison, hence, their review is worthless as to sound quality but good to know what flexibility, options it has.

 

[PENG]

What's a BR concert disc?

Something like this:

Herbert von Karajan Memorial Concert

http://www.amazon.com/Herbert-von-Karajan-Memorial-Concert/dp/B001OBT3FC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319154745&sr=8-1

It is a Blu Ray Disc.

I suggest you try a couple of high quality CDs such as:

Telarc Digital - Copland Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, Fanfare for the Common MAN

Reference Recordings RR-11CD - Symphonie Fantastique

These two CDs sound clearly better than many of my classical SACDs. As I said before, I find the quality of the media makes more obvious sound quality difference than that between amps. For more simplicity, just compare the HD sound tracks to the DD or DTS of the same disc, I would hear more difference than that between say my AVR and my separates. So your speakers may sound their best already with your AVR/amp but if you want to hear better SQ, go buy yourself some high quality CD, SACD, BR (blu ray) disc and enjoy your Totem speakers.

 

[PENG]

Just to be fair to Moves he may need to remove the Yamaha from the amplification equation to garner a bit more insight in to figuring out what or what may not be going on.

It's a credible step in certain circumstances and a step that should be low to no cost to do. What I want Moves to take away from this is that the cost of curiosity is not often free, but it also doesn't mean it has to be expensive.

I agree, in fact I think it is quite possible his speakers could sound slightly better under certain listening conditions (also depend on the source media quality/contents) if he simply add a 250WX2 amp to the 867. I definitely believe it does not have to be a McIntosh MC252.

 

[moves]

Something like this:

Herbert von Karajan Memorial Concert

http://www.amazon.com/Herbert-von-Karajan-Memorial-Concert/dp/B001OBT3FC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319154745&sr=8-1

It is a Blu Ray Disc.

I suggest you try a couple of high quality CDs such as:

Telarc Digital - Copland Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, Fanfare for the Common MAN

Reference Recordings RR-11CD - Symphonie Fantastique

These two CDs sound clearly better than many of my classical SACDs. As I said before, I find the quality of the media makes more obvious sound quality difference than that between amps. For more simplicity, just compare the HD sound tracks to the DD or DTS of the same disc, I would hear more difference than that between say my AVR and my separates. So your speakers may sound their best already with your AVR/amp but if you want to hear better SQ, go buy yourself some high quality CD, SACD, BR (blu ray) disc and enjoy your Totem speakers.

are these the cds you are talking about? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019M1UW0/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk3

and

Classical Music Orchestras Recorded by Reference Recordings

the one titled VARUJAN KOJIAN and the UTAH SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA and it has a red cover?

 

[moves]

I agree, in fact I think it is quite possible his speakers could sound slightly better under certain listening conditions (also depend on the source media quality/contents) if he simply add a 250WX2 amp to the 867. I definitely believe it does not have to be a McIntosh MC252.

Sorry what's a 867 lol? Sounds like a police code!

 

[jinjuku]

Sorry what's a 867 lol? Sounds like a police code!

Yamaha RX-V867 receiver. Some one is thinking this is the receiver you currently have (?).

 

[GranteedEV]

I agree, in fact I think it is quite possible his speakers could sound slightly better under certain listening conditions (also depend on the source media quality/contents) if he simply add a 250WX2 amp to the 867. I definitely believe it does not have to be a McIntosh MC252.

Crown Audio XLS 1500 DriveCore Stereo Power Amplifier XLS1500