I've never bought a real subwoofer before and need your help (please)!

5

55katest55

Audioholic
1. Your budget. $400(ish)...lower is better though!

2. Size requirements/limits. None.

3. Room dimensions. 13Wx15Lx8H...1560 cubic feet (small). There is a large opening in the back (about 8 ft), and the sub will sit on a wood floor, and likely be in the corner.

4. Primary uses. 100% movies and games, no music.

5. Listening habits. I don't really like to play my stuff loud at all...definitely no where near reference levels. I get to maybe 45-50 on my receiver (mine starts at 0 and goes up).

6. Appearance requirements. None, except for it has to be black.

7. Timeframe. None...I'd like to buy within the next few months.

All I have right now is a 10" Polk HTiaB subwoofer. I have two Polk Monitor70s and a Polk CS2 center, with 4 Onkyo surrounds I'm going to replace later. I was looking at the HSU STF-2, Elemental Design A2 - 300, Emotiva Ultra Sub 12, and Emotiva Ultra Sub 10. Then of course the BIC America F12 and Polk PSW505 (though I am not sure if they even compare to the other subs on this list?).

Thanks a ton!
 
Last edited:
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
BIC PL-200 - Designed by HSU, but better than HSU's entry model - STF-2
$263 SoundDestributors

Keep in mind that most eD subs are build to order and could take a while.
Emotiva subs received highest praises from Pro AH reviews, but Imo for 100% you'd should look for ported sub.
p.s:
Please keep Polks (especially their "subs" of this conversation...)

If you not afraid of size and a bit of DIY: This great kit for the money:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
Wow, thanks for the suggestion, i havent even heard of the PL-200! Looks pretty interesting and right around where i want to be. Though i checked that website and it is actually a bit more expensive.

Im a bit too new at this (and not handy...at all) to do a DIY, though ive definitely considered them.
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
So some people at other forums have been concerned with the fact that i have a large hole opening into the hallway at the back of my room.

However, i absolutely dont care about anyone elses seating position and whether or not they will feel it as good as me, and as long as it sounds even where i am, it doesnt need to be even throughout the entire room. Besides, if people are in there with me, theyll usually sit pretty close to where i am anyway.

Is this an issue?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Can you close the door to that opening? If not, then you have to factor the size of the adjoining area into your "room size" calculation, which may be what they are talking about. The sound will still mainly be contained in your area, but if it is open to another area, output will be affected. I still don't see it as a problem for most of the subs mentioned except Polk :p
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Wow, thanks for the suggestion, i havent even heard of the PL-200! Looks pretty interesting and right around where i want to be. Though i checked that website and it is actually a bit more expensive.

Im a bit too new at this (and not handy...at all) to do a DIY, though ive definitely considered them.
Yes, Like Garcia said - If you ever assembled Ikea furniture - you'd be ok.
Regarding price - see that Make an offer button? ;)
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
haha, you guys are great, thanks for the help!

Would the BIC H-200 compare to any of the other subs listed though (besides the F12 and PSW505, i just put them up there for comparison reasons kinda)?

If i just put a curtain or something up in front of that hole, would that be sufficient, or does it have to be a solid material?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
A fairly heavy curtain will help actually, not unlike a theater, but still not the same as a door or wall. A thin curtain likely won't make much difference.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
If you were primarily listening to music, the HSU, BIC (HSU design) and Emotiva subs would all be great choices. But you said that this is all about movies and games, yes?

With movies and games, playing as low as possible and being able to play with great dynamics tend to be the more important characteristics. By no means are the STF-2, PL-200 or Emotiva subs "bad" subs. But none of them really focus on playing low. Instead, they've gone for better accuracy and nice impact in the 50Hz and above area. That's really important for music - more important than playing super low or loud. So those subs get a lot of praise because they are "musical" subs, but playing really low and giving you that awesome "hit you in the chest", "rumble your couch" experience isn't really what they're about.

The Elemental Designs sub is going to be a little better in terms of giving you better low bass impact. Out of the subs you were considering, and because you want this sub for movies and games, but not music, I'd personally lean towards the eD sub for that reason.

With your budget, it can be a bit tough to really get absolutely everything that you probably want. I would be remiss though if I didn't at least mention the $50 Auralex GRAMMA. Now, I don't know your neighbor situation. If you have zero worries about bothering your neighbors, then you might actually be better off without the GRAMMA isolation riser underneath your sub! Normally, I'm all about reducing structure-borne transmission of sound. Whenever your sub plays, it shakes. And that shaking gets transmitted into the floor where it travels through the physical structure of your whole house! Sturcture-borne transmission is a big part of the reason why you can easily hear bass thump-thump-thumping away in other rooms (or in a neighbor's apartment). So normally, I'm all about using decoupling so that you will bother your neighbors or other people in the house a lot less and because it "tightens" up the sound that you hear in your theater due to reducing those wall/floor/ceiling vibrations and the distortion that comes from them.

In your case though, I'm betting that you're looking for impact and the sense that you sub is really shaking the room and rumbling with explosions and gunfire and whatnot. Having the structure-borne sound will actually heighten that sensation, even though it technically "muddies" the sound and makes it less accurate. With music being of no concern, you'd probably enjoy the physical shaking and "noisier" sensation of a subwoofer that is NOT decoupled via an Auralex GRAMMA.

If you have neighbors though, then a GRAMMA is a must! There's no sense in spending good money on a sub if all you ever get are complaints! You already said that you don't tend to listen very loud. But bass travels. Even at low volumes that your neighbors cannot hear, the bass will travel and still bother them.

So! No neighbor issues? I'd say not to worry about decoupling. Enjoy the sensation of rumbles and shaking with your subwoofer directly on your wood floor.

But. If you have potential neighbor issues, DEFINITELY get a GRAMMA. There is no question that your subwoofer is going to have structure-borne transmission in your case. You're going to be able to hear that bass thumping away in every room of your house. And if you've got neighbors close or attached, they're going to hear it thumping away too! A GRAMMA will greatly reduce that "bleeding" of bass and also give you "tighter" bass in your theater. You might miss the shaking sensation and the bass might actually sound a bit quieter with the GRAMMA in place. But it means more accurate bass. And, more importantly, it means far fewer complaints from the neighbors or other people in the house!

Hopefully, that description will let you decide for yourself whether spending $50 out of your budget will be worth it to you ;)
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
If you were primarily listening to music, the HSU, BIC (HSU design) and Emotiva subs would all be great choices. But you said that this is all about movies and games, yes?

With movies and games, playing as low as possible and being able to play with great dynamics tend to be the more important characteristics. By no means are the STF-2, PL-200 or Emotiva subs "bad" subs. But none of them really focus on playing low. Instead, they've gone for better accuracy and nice impact in the 50Hz and above area. That's really important for music - more important than playing super low or loud. So those subs get a lot of praise because they are "musical" subs, but playing really low and giving you that awesome "hit you in the chest", "rumble your couch" experience isn't really what they're about.

The Elemental Designs sub is going to be a little better in terms of giving you better low bass impact. Out of the subs you were considering, and because you want this sub for movies and games, but not music, I'd personally lean towards the eD sub for that reason.

With your budget, it can be a bit tough to really get absolutely everything that you probably want. I would be remiss though if I didn't at least mention the $50 Auralex GRAMMA. Now, I don't know your neighbor situation. If you have zero worries about bothering your neighbors, then you might actually be better off without the GRAMMA isolation riser underneath your sub! Normally, I'm all about reducing structure-borne transmission of sound. Whenever your sub plays, it shakes. And that shaking gets transmitted into the floor where it travels through the physical structure of your whole house! Sturcture-borne transmission is a big part of the reason why you can easily hear bass thump-thump-thumping away in other rooms (or in a neighbor's apartment). So normally, I'm all about using decoupling so that you will bother your neighbors or other people in the house a lot less and because it "tightens" up the sound that you hear in your theater due to reducing those wall/floor/ceiling vibrations and the distortion that comes from them.

In your case though, I'm betting that you're looking for impact and the sense that you sub is really shaking the room and rumbling with explosions and gunfire and whatnot. Having the structure-borne sound will actually heighten that sensation, even though it technically "muddies" the sound and makes it less accurate. With music being of no concern, you'd probably enjoy the physical shaking and "noisier" sensation of a subwoofer that is NOT decoupled via an Auralex GRAMMA.

If you have neighbors though, then a GRAMMA is a must! There's no sense in spending good money on a sub if all you ever get are complaints! You already said that you don't tend to listen very loud. But bass travels. Even at low volumes that your neighbors cannot hear, the bass will travel and still bother them.

So! No neighbor issues? I'd say not to worry about decoupling. Enjoy the sensation of rumbles and shaking with your subwoofer directly on your wood floor.

But. If you have potential neighbor issues, DEFINITELY get a GRAMMA. There is no question that your subwoofer is going to have structure-borne transmission in your case. You're going to be able to hear that bass thumping away in every room of your house. And if you've got neighbors close or attached, they're going to hear it thumping away too! A GRAMMA will greatly reduce that "bleeding" of bass and also give you "tighter" bass in your theater. You might miss the shaking sensation and the bass might actually sound a bit quieter with the GRAMMA in place. But it means more accurate bass. And, more importantly, it means far fewer complaints from the neighbors or other people in the house!

Hopefully, that description will let you decide for yourself whether spending $50 out of your budget will be worth it to you ;)
No neighbor issues, so i dont have to worry about that! Thanks a lot for the insightful post! I'm not sure exactly what im doing here but i will try and "thank" you! I think i kind of have narrowed it down the the ED A2-300 as well, but if it takes 4 weeks to build im not sure i can wait that long (on top of waiting a couple months to actually order it).

If i had extra money, id get the HSU VTF-2 MK3 sub...but thats almost $600 with shipping.
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
Hmm...the people at Elemental Designs offered me a $15 which is nice. :p I like how they continued to build stuff in America and raise prices a little vs go to China. Thinking strongly about that, i've heard its a good sub for HT.

Otherwise, i'd get the HSU, but instead of the STF-2 I would end up waiting & saving a lot longer and getting the VTF-2 MK 3, which would be superior to any of these subs (and more expensive).
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
Is keeping the couch in the center of the room the best place...? I remember reading somewhere about issues related to standing waves or something on the same lines
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
Is keeping the couch in the center of the room the best place...? I remember reading somewhere about issues related to standing waves or something on the same lines
whoaaa whoa whoa! where else could i move it and have everything be symmetric? if you mean forwards/backwards, its not dead center, but probably close.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
whoaaa whoa whoa! where else could i move it and have everything be symmetric? if you mean forwards/backwards, its not dead center, but probably close.
couch 1/3 of the room length away from the rear wall is generally preferable, but there's no telling what's optimal without measurements.
 
5

55katest55

Audioholic
So, just to be sure, a nicer subwoofer will definitely improve my system, right?

(going from a HTiaB sub to an eD a2-300)
 
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