Moving HT to a New Room

[Ares]

I have been talking about moving my gear from this glorified closet of a room to a much larger room since last year....well the time has come and I for one can't be much happier. Now I'm asking for suggestions, recommendations and just plain old advice on several areas such as speaker placement, seating placement and last but not least acoustical treatments. Which is something that is on my list this tax season I'm forgoing any AV upgrades this year for acoustical treatment so I will be talking to the guys over a GIK real soon.

The included PDF will have all the measurements of the new room and if I forgot one let me know and I will get that ASAP.

Thank You

Tony.

 

[yepimonfire]

is the room an open room or is there a door?

 

[Ares]

There isn't a door on either end of the room.

 

[yepimonfire]

do you want to extend the setup all the way back to the wall?

 

[Ares]

I have yet to setup any gear since I'm unsure on how to properly utilize this room, so I asking if you guys where in my situation how would you go about it. As of right now the room is empty.

 

[yepimonfire]

well the next question is is this 5.1 or 7.1?

 

[Ares]

The setup that's in my Sig.

 

[yepimonfire]

if i were you, i would go about it somewhat like this, red=fronts blue= whatever you intend on setting you equipment on, i would assume setting the center on it. the purple is the sub, the green is the surrounds. i would then suggest placing a sofa or chair or whatever you intend to sit on in the middle slightly more towards the surrounds. this is just what i would do.

 

[Ares]

I like it but my only concern is with the front right speaker being close to that doorway, my daughter comes running through there all the time and I want to limit the chance of her taking out the speaker, herself or both. What about flipping it around to the other side of the room, of course giving the console about two feet of clearance on the backside due to the radiator.

 

[yepimonfire]

see, the issue i would find with that is the weird bend into the other room would give you strange room acoustics, i can't tell exactly, but last time i had a setup similar to that, the speaker closest to a wall always sounded louder and fuller due to reflections, and the bass had huge holes. if this is an issue i would just park the fronts up close to the sides of the entertainment center.

 

[Ares]

Let's say, I decided to put the setup on that side of the larger opening would using something like GIK's screen panel as a temp wall help with some of the strange acoustics you mentioned. Now I plan on buying treatments for this room to help out with any weirdness that's going on with the acoustics in this room I understand it's not a cure all but it should help.

 

[yepimonfire]

i would say if you treated all of the walls, an i do mean all of them considering its one large room apparently, it would reduce or eliminate the problems in the high to mid frequencies, the biggest thing i am concerned about is overcoming the bass issues, it would take three foot deep material to capture just a 50hz wave, i guess you could try placing the sub on the wall with the radiator and see how it sounds. IMO, when a sub is placed either to the sie or behind the front speakers everything sounds off and out of phase to me, so i have always felt the need to place the sub in line with the fronts, i guess you could try placing it in a different area but i would recommend using a lower XO point, say 60hz. the sub is going to be the biggest issue, no realistic amount of acoustic material is going to be able to entirely capture the LF's. your wall idea would work in the mid to high frequencies but the bass would go right through it as if it wasn't even there.

 

[yepimonfire]

actually, if the receiver has some sort of room correction able to calculate distances it may solve the phase issues in the bass. the sub is just something you are going to have to play with, im guess by putting the sub on the wall with the radiator that you are going to have a few "good spots" in the room where things sound halfway normal rather then a fairly even response throughout the room. another way to solve that issue is by using multiple subs, but subs are not cheap unfortunately.

 

[Ares]

My receiver uses Audyssey, that radiator eats up a lot of real estate but from the edge of it to the wall it's about 2' so the sub would fit with some room to spare, but your right I will have to crawl to find the best spot in the room. Going the dual sub route would work unfortunately that would mean buying two new subs since they stopped making the 6i or if I'm lucky my dealer happens to still have one in stock.

 

[yepimonfire]

actually in your case i would use four subs being that all four of them interacting would create enough destructive interference to counteract room problems. like i said it would solve your problem but be very costly. i would just do the room treatments and find the best location for the sub.

 

[jostenmeat]

I like it but my only concern is with the front right speaker being close to that doorway, my daughter comes running through there all the time and I want to limit the chance of her taking out the speaker, herself or both. What about flipping it around to the other side of the room, of course giving the console about two feet of clearance on the backside due to the radiator.

I am liking this idea, because you can have better spread between the speakers, and no worries about daughter vs speaker battles. Trying to get more spread with the door-wall means that you might get tempted to shove the speaker into the corner, and that's a bad thing. The other side lets you move the spread over to the left a bit, and with at least some space perhaps from the corner.

Of course I worry about the radiator's heat with components a tad bit, but now I am wondering if it is a small blessing in disguise if it might force you to have the speakers further from the front wall. IMO, most setups I see have the speakers too close to the front boundary, but this is a personal preference thing mixed with my own limited experiences.

As for placement of traps, you can pick b pape's brain. Less using measuring equipment, you can just use your ears. Add and place according to subjective taste. You can get an idea of what kind of HF issues you might be dealing with by clapping/shouting/singing/yelling, and banging pots n pans in there. Of course do it now, but also again after the room starts getting filled with the furniture and what not.

You can even just bring in a stereo pair on the left, temporarily, and start cranking some stuff to see what you might be up against. You never know, it might sound very good too. I wish my ceilings were 9'.

 

[Ares]

I am liking this idea, because you can have better spread between the speakers, and no worries about daughter vs speaker battles. Trying to get more spread with the door-wall means that you might get tempted to shove the speaker into the corner, and that's a bad thing. The other side lets you move the spread over to the left a bit, and with at least some space perhaps from the corner.

Of course I worry about the radiator's heat with components a tad bit, but now I am wondering if it is a small blessing in disguise if it might force you to have the speakers further from the front wall. IMO, most setups I see have the speakers too close to the front boundary, but this is a personal preference thing mixed with my own limited experiences.

As for placement of traps, you can pick b pape's brain. Less using measuring equipment, you can just use your ears. Add and place according to subjective taste. You can get an idea of what kind of HF issues you might be dealing with by clapping/shouting/singing/yelling, and banging pots n pans in there. Of course do it now, but also again after the room starts getting filled with the furniture and what not.

You can even just bring in a stereo pair on the left, temporarily, and start cranking some stuff to see what you might be up against. You never know, it might sound very good too. I wish my ceilings were 9'.

I have come to a decision that I would place the setup on the window side of the room. So daughter vs speaker will never happen also since the backside of the TV console will be 2' away from the front side of the radiator it force the front to be 3' to 4' from the front wall. The one kink is I still haven't figured out seating placement yet, I would have taken measurements of the empty room with REW and posted them but my daughter decided to use my mic as a swizzle stick for her juice a couple days ago.

I had a conversation with Bryan yesterday and earlier today an his recommendation was to place the gear window side, along with some choices for some treatments that would help with this room which are the following:

• GIK Screen Panel (2) for the left opening leading into the utility room.
• GIK Monster Bass Traps (2) placed on the back wall.
• GIK 242 Panels (1 box) for early reflections of the right wall-I might get an extra box I'll explain why further down.
• GIK Tri-Trap (1 box) for the front right corner.

The reason I'm considering the extra box of 242 panels is that Bryan suggest I might want to do a DIY solution to address the front wall using 2" OC703 but it's not an option since the wife has seen GIK offerings and like's them so any attempt at DIY would be met with: why doesn't your panels look like theirs and that's not how theirs looks.

 

[jostenmeat]

I have come to a decision that I would place the setup on the window side of the room. So daughter vs speaker will never happen also since the backside of the TV console will be 2' away from the front side of the radiator it force the front to be 3' to 4' from the front wall. The one kink is I still haven't figured out seating placement yet, I would have taken measurements of the empty room with REW and posted them but my daughter decided to use my mic as a swizzle stick for her juice a couple days ago.

I'm thinking about 9' away from the front (window) wall. Close to ballpark here, if the TV is 3.5' away, the added 6.5' gives you a 28.8 degree viewing angle (on the cusp of being able to resolve full 1080p, THX being 36 degrees, my preference being bigger yet). I'd try to get to at least 30 degrees. Anyways, at about 9.2' would you hit 38% room length (from the rear in this case) and that's the ideal starting point as far as axial mode issues. It should be able to all work together fine.

Having your speakers that far out, well if your experience mirrors mine, you will get the most out of your PSBs. When I finished a repair project on a T55, I threw them em in the LR, several feet out, and they've never imaged better than in that fleeting situation.

I had a conversation with Bryan yesterday and earlier today an his recommendation was to place the gear window side, along with some choices for some treatments that would help with this room which are the following:

• GIK Screen Panel (2) for the left opening leading into the utility room.
• GIK Monster Bass Traps (2) placed on the back wall.
• GIK 242 Panels (1 box) for early reflections of the right wall-I might get an extra box I'll explain why further down.
• GIK Tri-Trap (1 box) for the front right corner.

Just curious, is Bryan assuming that you are up near the back wall? If so, I can understan why the Monster traps would go back there, and there may not be a bigger proponent of getting off the back wall than he is, and he'll tell you to treat the heck out of it otherwise.

The reason I'm considering the extra box of 242 panels is that Bryan suggest I might want to do a DIY solution to address the front wall using 2" OC703 but it's not an option since the wife has seen GIK offerings and like's them so any attempt at DIY would be met with: why doesn't your panels look like theirs and that's not how theirs looks.

If looks ARE important, I would get the framed type. As owner of some 242s and 244s (all hidden), the uncovered fabric edges are not true/straight, and don't pass the ultra sexy test, IMO. A great value, but again if looks are important, get the framed type . . . or better yet the art panels.

 

[Ares]

I'm thinking about 9' away from the front (window) wall. Close to ballpark here, if the TV is 3.5' away, the added 6.5' gives you a 28.8 degree viewing angle (on the cusp of being able to resolve full 1080p, THX being 36 degrees, my preference being bigger yet). I'd try to get to at least 30 degrees. Anyways, at about 9.2' would you hit 38% room length (from the rear in this case) and that's the ideal starting point as far as axial mode issues. It should be able to all work together fine.

Having your speakers that far out, well if your experience mirrors mine, you will get the most out of your PSBs. When I finished a repair project on a T55, I threw them em in the LR, several feet out, and they've never imaged better than in that fleeting situation.



Just curious, is Bryan assuming that you are up near the back wall? If so, I can understan why the Monster traps would go back there, and there may not be a bigger proponent of getting off the back wall than he is, and he'll tell you to treat the heck out of it otherwise.



If looks ARE important, I would get the framed type. As owner of some 242s and 244s (all hidden), the uncovered fabric edges are not true/straight, and don't pass the ultra sexy test, IMO. A great value, but again if looks are important, get the framed type . . . or better yet the art panels.

I don't believe Bryan assumes that the LP will be that close to the back wall, applying the 38% rule from the back wall would place the seating area 5'3.5" off the back wall, Bryan said that placing 2 Monsters on the rear wall would address bass cancellations off of the rear wall. If I had the room on the rear wall he would have suggest a third Monster. The ones with the frames are they the 242 elites? Josten I just need sexy not ultra sexy I tried ultra sexy once and it caused me to get married and I have been paying for it ever since.

So after all this I will have 2 tri-traps in the front corner, 2 screen panels for the left opening, 2 242 panels for the first reflections of the right wall, 4 panels for the front wall and 2 Monsters for the rear wall with all that the price isn't bad. All that's left is paint scheme I'm thinking a flat neutral gray and flat black with some burgundy accent's where's Alex when you need him? he's suppose to good at decor....I mean home theater design.

I not sure if it was you that was talking about modding the T55's if it was, did you do it and do you have pictures?

 

[jostenmeat]

The T55 was a reclamation project. I got the speaker(s) at dealer's cost, with the understanding that I get any parts needed for free as under warranty. The repaired tower is now my center speaker behind acoustically transparent screen. I could have used the other tower, but I thought it cool to use the repaired half after the help I received here. It works great.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68668

For black paint, I've used Behr Mouse Ears paint, a Disney color. However, I was disappointed in its reflectivity. I mean, it did wonders, don't get me wrong, but if I did it over I'd try something different. I'd probably try Benjamin Moore flat black as a hopefully ideal compromise between flatness and ease of painting/touchup. The black hole paint is supposedly Rosco Supersaturated Velour #6003.

For other colors that I don't know anything about, you can paint all the candidate samples on a board, let em dry, then start playing with it under a light source. Look for reflectivity. See, flatness is key.

So dark and flat colors will help your video, but not nearly to the dramatic extents as with front projection (where every $25 of flat black paint is like adding $1,000-$2000 to your projector budget). Since you're willing to go dark, I hope any display upgrade might be FP. You can get a great PJ under 2k now, free bulb, CMS perhaps, etc, and you can build a Seymour screen for a few hundred, and that's including the false wall and velvet. Well anyways, if you were so inclined, I might start looking at perhaps having it oriented "downward" into the utility room. I don't know the dimensions, not looking right now back n forth, don't know for sure that it's totally unobstructed, or what it's in there presently. I didn't offer the FP rec because I think you said furniture was already on the way, and I just don't expect non-FP users to actually consider black paint.

Yeah, the Elites, boy they really do jump up a lot in price. You get one less in the box, but pay a hundred more. Well, maybe this pic might give you an idea of the edges of regular non-Elites, from left are 242, 244, different brand . . .