Sub for music, 1 high power, or 2 lower end?

[feller21]

I have rescently decided on Paradigm Monitor 7's after listening to a ton of hi and lo dollar speakers. I prefered them over Def Tech, even their sub in speakers. Basically they sound the best to me after a long research period. I know they will lack on the low end for music. I don't care about surround home theater formats. I'm wondering if I should get 1 hi$ high wattage subwoofer, or 2 midlevel subs. Remember, my focus is on music. Also, years ago I heard Sunfire sub(1500$) that slammed. They have lower end subs 500ish, where togo next? Am i better off with a high wattage 500to1250 watts and up or 2 250ish subs for the best music assistance? Sunfire instantly draws my eye, as does Paradigm, Def Tech, HSU,SVS,EPIK, KEF(appearance). I have no space or placement issues. 1 or 2??? My instinct tells me that 2 250 watt subs will outperform 1 1000 watt sub for performance and accuracy. Help!!!

 

[GranteedEV]

you're right, 2 quality subs will outperform 1 better sub...

If what you're after is accuracy, I recommend a pair of rythmik F12s, 800 each so two will cost you 1600

 

[feller21]

How are the E55ti?

 

[GO-NAD!]

I wouldn't use wattage as a gauge of quality in a subwoofer. I can think of 2 factors off the top of my head that make wattage irrelevant: sensitivity of the design and enclosure type. A sealed enclosure typically requires significantlly more power to achieve the same output.

If you can place 2 subs in ideal locations, they can definitely even out the FR in the room. I assume that this is for music only? If so, you would be leaning more towards output, rather than extension.

Do you have a budget in mind?

 

[shadyJ]

I would go with two subs for a music system, if only to combat localization. Co-locate the subs next to your mains for the best effect, and wire the subs via the speaker cable for that specific channel if you really want to be a purist. This is what I would do.

 

[feller21]

Go Nad Budget.

Yeah I have a budget of 800 to 900 because I'm going to keep my Sonance center so I can spend a little more. Yes this is for music performance. I listen to hard rock, alternative. I'm more into accuracy in low frequency then boom or bang. I have only listened to a few subs and I'm always hesitant to buy from online dealers like svs,hsu,epik etc. Is there any specific numbers or things I should be looking at specifically in the specifications? My room is 12 by 20 and is not enclosed, therefore I thought 2 400$ subs would be the way to go. But realistically I would like to buy just one that is designed more for musical accuracy than home theater as a space saver. But it's hard to listen at specialty stores cause they all have different setups and room sizes and I only have 2 stores to listen at, 1 has Boston, Paradigm, B&W. The other store has Def Tech,Jamo,Polk,MTX,Klipsch. I would lean towards the Paradigm but I wasn't blown away until we got way out of my price range. All suggestions welcome.

 

[shadyJ]

If you can make the stretch, check out a couple of these Emotiva Ultra Sub 12 or a couple Elemental Designs A5s-300 subs. There are 10" versions of both but the 12"s will hit harder and go lower. Either option would cost $1k shipped for both subs. If you want to stick closer to your budget, get a couple Hsu VTF1 subs which are on sale for black friday. Being ported, they will have a bit more midbass punch than the 12"s mentioned above, especially if you run them in max output mode. They won't go as deep, but they might actually make more sense for you given your listening tastes. By the way, the Emotiva sub does not have speaker cable level inputs, so you would need a sub output on your receiver for that one.

 

[feller21]

If I went that route, I would set the subs rt next to my towers and wire them directly to the speakers? I like this! I could get 2 smaller subs so that helps me in my quest, small footprint for sure. Do all subs allow this direct hook up as you suggested? Any subwoofer suggestions?
Thx
Feller21

 

[dalumberjack]

you could get 1 vtf-15H. With the new Q control and other mechanics you can get it right where you want it to sound in your room. Just a thought

link:
http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html

 

[shadyJ]

If I went that route, I would set the subs rt next to my towers and wire them directly to the speakers? I like this! I could get 2 smaller subs so that helps me in my quest, small footprint for sure. Do all subs allow this direct hook up as you suggested? Any subwoofer suggestions?
Thx
Feller21

Yes, you get the idea. Some subs allow this hookup, subs with speaker cable inputs and outputs. Looking back at the subs I recommended, it only looks like the Hsu sub has that capability. The Emotiva sub doesn't have any speaker level jacks at all, and it seems like the ED subwoofer only has speaker level inputs but not outputs(?) which seems strange to me, as you wouldn't be able to go back out to your speakers. You might want to shoot ED a email to confirm if that's the case if you are interested in those subwoofers, because my understanding of that subwoofer might be off a bit.

Dalumberjacks suggestion of the VTF-15H wouldn't have a small footprint, but it would have multiple times the output of any of the subwoofers I mentioned, even if those subs are in pairs. If you like to rock out hard from time to time, the VTF-15H might be the way to go. It'll have excellent sound quality, being a hsu sub, and it will get very loud with low distortion. The drawback with this approach is that it risks weighting the bass to where ever the sub is located in your room, ie localization. But then again you could save up to get another one to even the sound out, but then again these are large subs and will eat up real estate. Two of those would be just insane. But AWESOME.

 

[feller21]

Rel

Thanks Shady J for input and research, and everybody else who has given thoughts. A friend mentioned I look at REL, so I did. I would only be able to get one but they are an option. KEF makes a couple subs that are slim, attractive, containing passive woofers and are wirable to speakers for my ideal set up. I have heard bad things about KEF so I'm hesitant. No one has endorsed my Sunfire sub original post. Have they gone downhill? I think as I take advice and look at products recommended I get closer to total confusion. Truth is I have to admit that with my Paradgm Monitor 7's(haven't got em yet) is that I want to extend their frequencies and get a full audible spectum. So size and design is becoming more important to me than I originally stated. 2 slim and powerful subs that can be tied to my Paradigms is the way I need to go. Anyone know about Mirage, NHT, Jamo.I appreciate all the advise and I know that the internet order companies are probably the way to go. Got to take achance once in awhile. (SVS,HSU,EPIK,OUTLAW, I wish to hell I had a Sunfire dealer within 100 miles cause I was awed years ago. I want an American made sub. Crazy, lazy, yada

 

[j_garcia]

Right at your price point is also the Epik Empire, but "small footprint" is kind of a relative factor I consider it small because it is a lot smaller than my previous sub.

 

[shadyJ]

REL and Sunfire are good brands, but with respect to internet direct companies they really don't offer the greatest performance for the money. Neither do most other subs sold at brick and mortar stores, like KEF, Klipsch, Velodyne, etc. By cutting out the middleman and focusing on performance rather than aesthetics, internet direct sub makers have really left the larger brands behind in value. And by the way, as far as I know, most of the internet direct subs are american made. I know that ED, Hsu, SVS, Rythmik, and Epik are, and I think so is Outlaw. Not sure about Emotiva.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Have you considered the possibility of DIY subs? If you have even basic woodworking skills and access to some power tools, building a subwoofer is relatively simple.

I'm pretty good with woodwork, but I wouldn't have considered building my own subs, had it not been for some of the guys in this forum. If you can build a box, you can build a subwoofer. If are willing to at least entertain the idea of building your own, this driver and amp combination would be perfect for your needs:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-460

and

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-750

If you post in the DIY section what you want to do, one of the guys will come up with enclosure size that you need. Then, keeping within your budget, you can have a pair of subwoofers that would probably be superior to any commercial subwoofer you will find.

Some food for thought...

 

[feller21]

Wow, I will contemplate building one. I will check those links. I have a friend who is big on building car boxes so he could help me. Thx!

 

[feller21]

How do u like the Monitor 9's? I only heard the 7's and the 11's and I likes the 7's better. Maybe I should consider the 9 over the 7.

 

[GranteedEV]

Have you considered the possibility of DIY subs? If you have even basic woodworking skills and access to some power tools, building a subwoofer is relatively simple.

I'm pretty good with woodwork, but I wouldn't have considered building my own subs, had it not been for some of the guys in this forum. If you can build a box, you can build a subwoofer. If are willing to at least entertain the idea of building your own, this driver and amp combination would be perfect for your needs:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-460

and

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-750

If you post in the DIY section what you want to do, one of the guys will come up with enclosure size that you need. Then, keeping within your budget, you can have a pair of subwoofers that would probably be superior to any commercial subwoofer you will find.

Some food for thought...

Might as well go higher end on the drivers... I'd probably recommend the CSS Trio12 or SDX-15mk2 or Exodus ShivaX2 or Tempest-X2 or TCsounds LMS-R and feed them plenty of power... those are true SQ subs with minimal distortion!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Might as well go higher end on the drivers... I'd probably recommend the CSS Trio12 or SDX-15mk2 or Exodus ShivaX2 or Tempest-X2 or TCsounds LMS-R and feed them plenty of power... those are true SQ subs with minimal distortion!

My recommendation was based on feller21's budget. As for high end, the Dayton RS series have a well-earned reputation as a quality driver for a great price. I'm happy with mine and if TLS and Annunaki give them the thumbs up, that's good enough for me.

I don't see any need to increase his budget - especially since it's for music only and he doesn't need the deeper extension. I'd rather not send him down mission creep road.

 

[feller21]

DIY not for me

After consideration, I won't be building my own sub. Even knowing the benefits. I've kind of narrowed it down to a few subs. The Epik Legend, NHT B12d, Boston Acoustics Reflection(great reviews and specs), several Paradigm models that would match my fronts. Or Elemental Designs A5s 300. Elemental Designs are made right here in Iowa so I am kinda leaning that way. Of course I will be getting 2 of each of these subs unless I hear of a single sub that would be better than 2 of the above mentioned. Anybody own any of these subs give me the lowdown.

 

[shadyJ]

Remember for your purposes you need the correct type of inputs on the subwoofer. Not all subs take high level inputs (speaker cable), which it seems like you will want to use. For instance the NHT sub you are considering does not, and I don't think the Boston Acoustics does either but I am not certain about that one. The Epik and ED subs do take high level inputs.

Another sub you might want to consider is the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Compact, which just went on sale in a combo pack with a wireless adapter, for $424. It has free shipping and is not a large subwoofer either. It has high level inputs so you could wire it in a parallel circuit with your speakers, and it also has high level outputs unlike the other subs to make it that much easier. The wireless adapter in the combo pack is a $150 value itself, so if you didn't use that you could resell it for a nice sum.

The Hsu VTF1 just went on a black friday sale, if you wanted to save money but not sacrifice output, that is a good way to go. It also has high level inputs and outputs.