Newbie question - safe Home Theater

G

Gogu

Audiophyte
First, I'm not an "audiophile". In fact my ears are not what I'll call HiFi. My problem is as follows:
I want to buy myself a Home Theater system. I went to the shop. I was explained that I have to start by choosing the main speakers and advised to go home, come with my own CD, put it in the CD player and start switching between the 72 pairs of speakers on display to chose the ones that I like.
I stayed half an hour to test with the shop CD and, while there were certainly some good and some bad speakers, the choice is impossible for me to make.
TOO MUCH INFORMATION for my taste.

I definitely do not like a full theater system that comes including some small speakers which sound like crap even for me and tries to make up by putting a big bass speaker.
But I also do not like spending twice the money for the extra 0,001% fidelity.

So, my question is: in the world of audio systems (I want to be able to hear music from Blue Ray - so probably this would be a 7.1 system), is there any "safe choice" that sounds "good enough" or even "good" for music and movies ?
Can anyone recommend such a configuration ? (Most importantly - speakers).


Also, a separate question - the speakers I've seen (main speakers, not the subwoofer) all have a response that starts from 35-40 Hz (shop specifications). I remember that 20 years ago a "normal" speaker for a stereo system was listed as starting from 20 Hz, some of them even from 16Hz. What happen during that time - did the definition of these numbers changed (the starting frequency of the response curve means now something different than 20 years ago) ?

Thanks in advance for your answers. And, please don't start a flame war with which is the best system, I just need one in the "good" range.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Many of the old speakers that listed such impressive looking frequency responses did not specify how much deviation in level there was over the range they claimed. With most speakers today, the standard is to specify +/- 3dB, though you will want to always look for some such specification in order to be able to compare such things between different speakers. Simply put, most speakers of the past had specifications that made the speakers seem like they were better than they were.

Also, with a home theater, there is no need for deep bass in all of the channels, as one typically uses a subwoofer to handle the deep bass (usually about 80 Hz and lower), so having main speakers that are flat down to about 60-70 Hz is typically good enough, as one sends the deep bass with such speakers only to the subwoofer. This bit of information can save you quite a bit of money, as a person who is not picky can buy bookshelf speakers for all positions, and then buy a good subwoofer (I like SVS) to handle the bass. It is also good information for people who are picky about sound quality (but do not require deafening sound levels), as they can buy better bookshelf speakers for their money than buying floor standing speakers of the same price.

As for your first question, you should tell people how much you are willing to spend, and give a better indication of how picky you are. "Good enough" for one person is very often not good enough for someone else, even if both claim not to be very picky.
 
G

Gogu

Audiophyte
I can spend 800 - 2000 euro for speakers and A/V receiver.
About how picky I am - none of the bookshelf speakers sounded good to me, while a lot of the floor speakers sounded ok. It was not only the lack of bass - some of the floor speakers sounded better also in the high frequency - it was like the sound was fuller and had more dynamic range.

To have a better idea what was the available choice - you can look at the speakers from correct.nl
During the half an hour or so I heared the Klipsch speakers. The floor type were priced 299 - 799 / piece. The ones with different speakers size (not the column type with identical speakers) sounded better, but I was unable to hear a difference between a 299 , a 499 and a 799 euro speaker (shop price, on the net there are lower prices). The amplifier was a Yamaha, the music was from the nineties (not classical or jazz).

My initial ideea was to go and buy an A/V receiver Denon, Onkyo or Harman Kardon with the speakers that come with it. I had the surprise that for the 5.1 and 7.1 models none of the above come with speakers. There were some Sony and Panasonic with 5+1 speakers, but they sounded bad.

I know in computers it is a saying - no one was fired for buying IBM. I was expecting that also for audio there are some safe choices, but after searching on the net every model searched had unhappy users and bad reviews for particular types of music/environment.

PS: 20 Watts per channel is good enough for me - I don't want to demolish the house. The minimum power for the receivers was 50 W/channel. Also my ideea is that the speakers introduce the most distorsions in an audio setup, so it's wise to buy better speakers. My intention is to buy the speakers for life and change only the amplifier over the years. I would pay also 799 or more for one of the main speakers but only if I would hear a clear difference or have a valid reason to do it.
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I can spend 800 - 2000 euro for speakers and A/V receiver.
About how picky I am - none of the bookshelf speakers sounded good to me, while a lot of the floor speakers sounded ok. It was not only the lack of bass - some of the floor speakers sounded better also in the high frequency - it was like the sound was fuller and had more dynamic range.

To have a better idea what was the available choice - you can look at the speakers from correct.nl
During the half an hour or so I heared the Klipsch speakers. The floor type were priced 299 - 799 / piece. The ones with different speakers size (not the column type with identical speakers) sounded better, but I was unable to hear a difference between a 299 , a 499 and a 799 euro speaker (shop price, on the net there are lower prices). The amplifier was a Yamaha, the music was from the nineties (not classical or jazz).



My initial ideea was to go and buy an A/V receiver Denon, Onkyo or Harman Kardon with the speakers that come with it. I had the surprise that for the 5.1 and 7.1 models none of the above come with speakers. There were some Sony and Panasonic with 5+1 speakers, but they sounded bad.

I know in computers it is a saying - no one was fired for buying IBM. I was expecting that also for audio there are some safe choices, but after searching on the net every model searched had unhappy users and bad reviews for particular types of music/environment.
If you are that picky your budget is far too low.

Obviously you are in Europe so seek out some good UK brands, like Spendor, Harbeth, PMC, ATC, Monitor Audio, Mordaunt Short, Naim and Quad. ATC have some really nice small bookshelf speakers for instance. Tannoy are also worth and audition.

I'm not recommending B & W in your price range. I'm very underwhelmed by the lower end of the B & W product range.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I can spend 800 - 2000 euro for speakers and A/V receiver.
About how picky I am - none of the bookshelf speakers sounded good to me, while a lot of the floor speakers sounded ok. It was not only the lack of bass - some of the floor speakers sounded better also in the high frequency - it was like the sound was fuller and had more dynamic range.

Very often, producing deeper bass gives a speaker a "fuller" sound. As for the treble, many brands of speaker use exactly the same tweeter in a bookshelf speaker as they do in the same line of floor standing speaker, so I have a hard time going along with your claim about that, though it could be you were listening to different lines of speakers from Klipsch, and that could explain it. Of course, if the speakers were positioned all on the floor, then that would also explain things, as bookshelf speakers should be placed on something high enough to put the tweeter at or near ear level (when listening), because treble tends to be quite directional.

As you may surmise from this, a company may have different model "lines", such that you may like one and not another. In the past, the best Klipsch speakers have been in their "Heritage" lineup (e.g., Klipschorn, La Scala, Belle Klipsch, etc.), though I see from visiting their website that they now have some even more expensive models that they claim are better. (It is about time they came up with something that they think is better than a speaker introduced in the 1940's!)


To have a better idea what was the available choice - you can look at the speakers from correct.nl

Some of the brands I am not familiar with, so I cannot comment on their relative quality. I would be curious to hear some of the higher end Dali speakers, as I personally tend to like ribbon speakers. But as I have never heard any Dali speakers, I cannot comment on their quality.

Klipsch tends to be a very polarizing brand, with many people either loving them or hating them, though I personally am more in the middle, as I can admire their virtues while not wanting them. Boston, B&W, Definitive Technology, Energy, Infinity, Jamo, JBL, and KEF have all made some pretty good speakers at one time or another. But I cannot tell you which of these you would like the best, nor can I tell you that they would be better than some of the other brands with which I have no experience.

Speakers really are a very personal choice, as there is no such thing as a perfect speaker, and so it is a question of which vices bother one the most, and which ones are ones that one can tolerate.

To help you in your decision regarding the upper end of the sound, if you ever listen to music that does not have much bass, you can try that out when comparing bookshelf speakers with floor standing models. And when you compare, try two things: A bookshelf speaker from the same line as the floor standing speaker, and also try a better bookshelf speaker that costs about the same as the floor standing speaker.


During the half an hour or so I heared the Klipsch speakers. The floor type were priced 299 - 799 / piece. The ones with different speakers size (not the column type with identical speakers) sounded better, but I was unable to hear a difference between a 299 , a 499 and a 799 euro speaker (shop price, on the net there are lower prices). The amplifier was a Yamaha, the music was from the nineties (not classical or jazz).

You absolutely need to listen to some other types of speakers. Some people love horns, and other people hate them. You should listen to some other speakers for comparison to see if either of those descriptions fits you. But do not become wedded to one type of speaker or another, as what really matters is how it sounds, not what is used to make the sound. And, obviously, not all horns sound alike, and not all domes sound alike, and etc.


My initial ideea was to go and buy an A/V receiver Denon, Onkyo or Harman Kardon with the speakers that come with it. I had the surprise that for the 5.1 and 7.1 models none of the above come with speakers. There were some Sony and Panasonic with 5+1 speakers, but they sounded bad.

I know in computers it is a saying - no one was fired for buying IBM. I was expecting that also for audio there are some safe choices, but after searching on the net every model searched had unhappy users and bad reviews for particular types of music/environment.

PS: 20 Watts per channel is good enough for me - I don't want to demolish the house. The minimum power for the receivers was 50 W/channel. Also my ideea is that the speakers introduce the most distorsions in an audio setup, so it's wise to buy better speakers. My intention is to buy the speakers for life and change only the amplifier over the years. I would pay also 799 or more for one of the main speakers but only if I would hear a clear difference or have a valid reason to do it.

Of the three brands you list for receiver, I would go with Denon. I would also consider Yamaha and Marantz, but Denon is fine, and fits well with your idea that "no one was fired for buying IBM" idea, at least for receivers. Denon is generally well regarded and respected for receivers.


A thing about the power: How much you need depends upon which speakers you choose, as some require more power than others. With Klipsch speakers generally, I would tend to agree that more than 20 watts would not be necessary in a normal room at sane volumes, but with some speakers that would not be nearly enough power. But as you observed, you are likely to end up with more power whether you need it or not. Still, it is a good idea to make sure that whatever you choose will be enough for the particular speakers you end up with. So don't buy the receiver before you have selected your speakers.
 
G

Gogu

Audiophyte
Ok. If I understand the advices correctly, I'll have to bring some cd's and spend some hours in the shop before deciding what to buy. Also I have to be prepared to spend some more money.
Regarding the speakers that I listened to, there were some floor speakers and some bookshelf speakers on two shelfs, one at ear level, one higher. Each speaker (pair of speakers) had a number and putting the number in a mixer switched the output on those speakers.
I have no clue which bookshelfs were in the same line as the floor speakers so probably I compared apples with oranges.

Thanks for the advices.

One last question - If I find a pair that sounds better in the shop will it sound the same at home or does the environment make any difference? Is it possible that some speakers which would have a lower ranking on my list in the shop would sound better at home ?
I ask that because once I choose the speakers I'll probably have the choice between buying from a shop with higher prices but with a nice return policy and one with lower prices but no returns allowed.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ok. If I understand the advices correctly, I'll have to bring some cd's and spend some hours in the shop before deciding what to buy. Also I have to be prepared to spend some more money.
Regarding the speakers that I listened to, there were some floor speakers and some bookshelf speakers on two shelfs, one at ear level, one higher. Each speaker (pair of speakers) had a number and putting the number in a mixer switched the output on those speakers.
I have no clue which bookshelfs were in the same line as the floor speakers so probably I compared apples with oranges.

Thanks for the advices.

One last question - If I find a pair that sounds better in the shop will it sound the same at home or does the environment make any difference? Is it possible that some speakers which would have a lower ranking on my list in the shop would sound better at home ?
I ask that because once I choose the speakers I'll probably have the choice between buying from a shop with higher prices but with a nice return policy and one with lower prices but no returns allowed.
The room could certainly change things. However a speaker that sounds to you really good at the dealer is unlikely to sound terrible at home. The better and smoother the speaker and the tighter the bass the less likely you are to find a big difference when you get home. I should add a speaker line to the list and that is PMC.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top