just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
i have been keeping an eye on a panny 3000. at first, it was $2500 with mount and cable. then the cable/mount went away. now the price is $2700.

i know when i first started looking at bd players. the price of my panny seemed to be going up every day. then a new model came out.

isn't this stuff supposed to get cheaper ? i was waiting on a sale. now i have a bad taste, and may not even buy. if i do buy, it won't be a for a lil while = still rebuilding my master bath.

watcha think ?
 
B

Ben_in_COSpring

Junior Audioholic
Prices usually get good around the holidays. If you can wait...
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
i have been keeping an eye on a panny 3000. at first, it was $2500 with mount and cable. then the cable/mount went away. now the price is $2700.

watcha think ?
What keeps you away from the b stock RS2 ? It's less money, after all. Just two years ago, people were paying like +$6k for the thing (or a lot more if they didn't shop well). Less than two years ago, Art Feierman said this about the msrp: "Best black levels and shadow detail of any of the projectors anywhere near its price (and possibly at any price). $7995 MSRP, and worth it".
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
What keeps you away from the b stock RS2 ? It's less money, after all. Just two years ago, people were paying like +$6k for the thing (or a lot more if they didn't shop well). Less than two years ago, Art Feierman said this about the msrp: "Best black levels and shadow detail of any of the projectors anywhere near its price (and possibly at any price). $7995 MSRP, and worth it".
didn't know about em. i am out of the loop right now. i am reading some of your rs2 thread, but i am tierd. so i'm not grasping much. i see they have a 3000 b-stock for about $1900, hmmmm. i'm not in a hurry to buy.
 
S

Sherardp

Audioholic
A B-stock JVC will outperform a Panny 3000U any day of the month. JVC has done the homework from start to finish and offer a very nice line of PJs. From the HD1 which you can find now for around 1500-1800 to the HD750 which is king right now. They simply perform well and no I don't work for JVC. I have had two of the JVCs and will say you really get what you pay for. Stunning image, every time with excellent CS. I'm soon to sell my RS10 and will buy the new upcoming HD950.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
ok. 1 feature of the panny i really like, is that screen memory. i want a 2:39 screen. and then with a 16:9 movie just switch modes. how are the JVC's with this ? lots of tinkering, or a few adjustments ? i wouldn't mind playing with it some to switch it, but i don't want to spend 1/2hr+ to make the change.
and i am not looking to spend more than $3000 on it.
and absolute image quality probably isn't needed. as long as its at least as good as my dlp, i will be tons happy.i am going to be around a 90"ish cih screen.
10' - 11' viewing distance. with the pj directly above me head = so it being quiet is very important. i am reading the other thread.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
does my questions not make sense ? i'm tryin to learn this stuff.

so, say i have a 2:35 screen. "poor mans" CIH is nothing more than zooming to fill that screen, correct? and the panny 3000 does nothing more, other than remember your setting, correct? and "unzooming" puts a cih non-scope picture on that scope screen, but with side bars, correct? and most other pj can do this, but it is just manually, correct ?

thanx
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
does my questions not make sense ? i'm tryin to learn this stuff.
I think we might've thought you would figure it out quickly. Otherwise, you didn't mention anamorphic setup, whether it was desired, or excluded as a possibility.

Also, with the fantastic deal on the now expired RS2, I think most of us were wondering why you were even considering the Pana at that point. Most of us put PQ as a first priority.

so, say i have a 2:35 screen. "poor mans" CIH is nothing more than zooming to fill that screen, correct?
Yes.

and the panny 3000 does nothing more, other than remember your setting, correct?
Yes.

and "unzooming" puts a cih non-scope picture on that scope screen, but with side bars, correct?
I believe it has 3 presets. You'd probably choose them to be 1.78, 1.85, and 2.35-2.40. In other words, you will still have to do some slight adjustments to the zoom + focus if you want to avoid horiz black bars on every movie out there. There are other ARs besides those, if rare. One off the top of my head is The Last Emperor at 2.00, for example. Between 2.35 and 2.40, you will either have minimal black bars on top/bottom, or you will cut a bit of pic out on the 2.35 end, hopefully masked well enough.

Otherwise, with 1.78, 1.85, 2.40, you'd be golden on almost every movie made. Just know that there are some funky ones out there, if rather rare.

When you use the wide screen ARs like 2.40, you are over-shooting the zoom on the screen, and so having that area blacked out very well will most likely benefit you. YMMV. You don't want to have visible distracting light on the wall where the "black bars" now are.

and most other pj can do this, but it is just manually, correct ?

thanx
yes, of course, but some really ARE manual, and some are electric. Mine is manual, and I guess that I could do zoom and focus in less than five minutes, no problem. If you are ok with the "manual" method, getting a PJ with better absolute blacks will make the "black bars" on the wall less offensive of an issue.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
jos
i'm not the brightest bulb in the lamp. so please excuse my ignorance.
can you imagine those that are afraid to ask. and those that do ask, and get answers that can not compare to yours (to put it mildly).

you, have explained it in a way that i can understand. for that, my friend, i am consuming a MAGIC HAT in your honor :):cool:

now

lol, yes, i know about your PQ expectations. i can only aspire. or maybe i shouldn't. "ignorance is bliss' type thing. it is said that the RS2 BS will be back. perhaps i will indulge . but $$$ is becoming as issue for me.

you say, light over spill. i am going to mount my sceen off the wall. idk how much yet. could be 6", could be 2'. so i'm thinkin that the over spill will be negligible, idk.
but i will have to address the CS issue.

in between ratios are not an issue. compromise and call it good.

manual is not an issue. as you say it doesn't take forever. and i get to play with my gear :)


THANX :cool:
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
jos
lol, yes, i know about your PQ expectations. i can only aspire. or maybe i shouldn't. "ignorance is bliss' type thing. it is said that the RS2 BS will be back. perhaps i will indulge . but $$$ is becoming as issue for me.
Yes... but as I've been implying, that RS2 was hundreds less than the best price you've quoted for the Pana in this thread! So, in cases likes this, ignorance really isn't bliss. It really was a case of having cake and eating it. Next up I'm led to believe is the RS10, as far as deals.

you say, light over spill. i am going to mount my sceen off the wall. idk how much yet. could be 6", could be 2'. so i'm thinkin that the over spill will be negligible, idk.
but i will have to address the CS issue.
A 2.40 AR will give you a tad more than 25% of black bars, relative to the 16:9 display. IOW, quite a lot.

manual is not an issue. as you say it doesn't take forever. and i get to play with my gear :)
That's cool, but it's pretty hard to underestimate convenience. FWIW.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I'm a bit confused on this personally...

Less than 92" width, from 10-11 feet is way under THX specifications for screen size.

If the total width which is available to work with is limited to 85" (or less), but you have plenty of height, then I would not recommend or consider a scope format screen at all. Maximizing your screen size to give a 'center of the theater' feel to your setup would be something I would strongly recommend that you consider.

I feel that cinemascope has been HEAVILY marketed to people in an attempt to part them from their cash and that people are getting excited about having black bars on the left and right of their image for HDTV and some movie viewing instead of above/below their image for some movie viewing. Black bars no matter what, and for many people, they are reducing their screen size because the room width doesn't allow them to put in a wider 2.35 screen which would be appropriate.

Just my impression and worry when I hear this discussion.

From 10' you should have about a 80" wide 16:9 screen - about a 92" diagonal. For 2.35, it should be about a 105" diagonal I believe under THX recommendations for center of the theater feel.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
thank you, for your concern. for me, you may be right. i have never seen a 16:9 sceen. i am going to go to a large AV retailer a ways away for me, one of these days. to check out their setups. this will give me a better idea of what i want. as it is now, i don't want a tall screen in my room. my dlp's 16:9 image is just fine for me. letterbox, no way. that is why i am thinking a scope screen a bit taller than what i have, will do the job nicely. and still not have a tall screen in my room. i have found a lot of guys think this way = CIH.

anyway. before i get a screen. i am going to project on my wall. and then rig up some kind of screen. just to test out what i REALLY can live with. then i will DIY what i want.

another one of my concerns, is CC placement. i am anal about have it right on the edge of the picture.a scope movie on a 16:9 screen, the CC will a ways away from the picture. not ideal to me.


jos
yes, i seen the RS10 is next in line. i want to see the pricing on those.
you guys may be hatin on me for this = projectorreview says the RS10 is the comparison for the veiwsonic pro8100. which is at $1300 right now. and, work issues have me REALLY THINKING about $$$$ purchases. SPECIALLY for something i really don't need. and being that this would be my first pj, and i am not as critical as you guys. i may be happy with it.

sure wish there was someone around me that would let me check out their setup. that would help a lot.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
jos
yes, i seen the RS10 is next in line. i want to see the pricing on those.
you guys may be hatin on me for this = projectorreview says the RS10 is the comparison for the veiwsonic pro8100. which is at $1300 right now. and, work issues have me REALLY THINKING about $$$$ purchases.
:confused:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/dla-rs10/summary.php

SPECIALLY for something i really don't need. and being that this would be my first pj, and i am not as critical as you guys. i may be happy with it.
er. dood. the b stock special was LESS money than what you were already considering. For even less money, like $1,300, the last deal was the one BMX told us about, the BenQ 5000 for 1.5k. Of course, it finally sold out.

Otherwise, don't buy a complete POS, ok? It's not like the difference is subtle, OK? I'm talking blowing everything you've ever seen out of the water like recently for 2.3k. I mean everything. Any theater you've ever been to in your life. Capiche?

I have a friend who is a DGA director. He says it's the nicest pic he's ever seen.

I have another friend who used to work at Todd AO. Though it's been some years ago, my PJ looks better than the one they had at work. The RS2 is even better than mine!

sure wish there was someone around me that would let me check out their setup. that would help a lot.
You live near Chicago. There has got to be opportunity there.

Sigh.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Wow, I looked a little bit back on that link, and saw this RS10 vs Infocus IN83 DLP. Holy cow. He says:

"...between the JVC DLA-RS10 (on the right) and the InFocus IN83 on the left. Neither have a dynamic iris. So, what you see, is what you get. The IN83 sports a Darkchip4 processor, which is, I believe as good as DLP gets in terms of black levels (without adding a dynamic iris). There's no comparison between the two projectors, the JVC blows the InFocus away..."



(The photo was taken with a time exposure just long enough to bring up the background of the JVC so you can see it along side the InFocus. Note, the white vertical streak toward the left side of the RS10's dark image is actually light leakage from the InFocus
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
thank you, for your concern. for me, you may be right. i have never seen a 16:9 sceen. i am going to go to a large AV retailer a ways away for me, one of these days. to check out their setups. this will give me a better idea of what i want.
That's a pretty good idea, but keep in mind that you should ask them about their setup and what they are using. Make sure to ask to see 16:9 and 2.35 material on the screen if you can and ask about how much things in there cost. Seeing a $15,000+ setup when you have a $5,000 (total) budget is not going to be a true apples-to-apples comparison.

as it is now, i don't want a tall screen in my room. my dlp's 16:9 image is just fine for me.
If this is the case, then I am thinking that you should go with a 16:9 screen, maximizing the width if that is all your room allows, then letting the screen have black bars when it goes to 2.35:1. This isn't the same as the old letterbox DVDs, but will have black bars above/below the image when viewing 2.35 material. The difference is that you don't gain anything (at all) when you have a small screen and CIH - it makes no sense at all. Especially when you consider that the full 16:9 frame is what the projector is designed to deliver.

In wide rooms with plenty of viewing angle available, going to a wider 2.35 screen with zoom/lens capability can produce excellent results, but in a tighter room, the 16:9 screen is what will fit better and give you a far more immersive experience when you watch 1.85 films or normal HDTV viewing (think football games with the friends). You don't LOSE screen size with 2.35:1 when you do this because you are working with constant image WIDTH instead of constant image height, which for your room, sounds ideal.

that is why i am thinking a scope screen a bit taller than what i have, will do the job nicely.
HUH? Sorry, this sentence confuses me. A scope screen is 2.35:1 and is less tall than a 16:9 (1.78) screen and will reduce the size of your best quality image (1.78).

and still not have a tall screen in my room. i have found a lot of guys think this way = CIH.
I find that a lot of marketing has been spent in the last 2-3 years to convince people that CIH is worth spending $20,000 on, and people have been looking for cheap ways to recreate it for $3,000. This leads to rooms which really just end up being blunders and most custom home theater installers do NOT go with 2.35 unless the customer can actually afford to do it properly and has a room which can accomodate the setup properly. Just doing it because it is cool... Well, you know the saying: "If all your friends jump off a bridge..."

anyway. before i get a screen. i am going to project on my wall. and then rig up some kind of screen. just to test out what i REALLY can live with. then i will DIY what i want.
I strongly encourage this and think this is an excellent solution.

another one of my concerns, is CC placement. i am anal about have it right on the edge of the picture.a scope movie on a 16:9 screen, the CC will a ways away from the picture. not ideal to me.
If you really want the best impact, then I would research DIY AT screens or look into getting an AT screen and get your center channel where it really belongs. If you have a box CC already, then consider a mechanism to raise/lower it.

Obviously, the first step is getting the projector and ensuring it has the flexibility in lens and placement to meet your needs. Most DLP models do NOT have this flexibility, most current LCD models do, and most LCoS models do.

If you are working at about 100" diagonal or so at 16:9, then the JVC models, if you can find one, are easily the best option out there, but the Panasonic with automatic zoom is a no brainer for the poor-mans anamorphic.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
ok, guys. i am drinkin right now. so i won't say too much.

jos
look about 3/4 the way down, where it gives comparisons .

Viewsonic Pro8100 vs JVC RS1x

Here too, the Viewsonic has a slight advantage in brightness, but this time, in "brightest" modes. On the other hand, the RS1x is more film-like, and has significantly superior black levels. Audible noise is not an issue for either, and the JVC has no flaws even remotely as significant as the Viewsonic's "yo-yo" dynamic iris. The Pro8100, however, produces a slightly sharper, crisper image. Considering that the JVC DLA-RS1x is less expensive, like the Epson Pro Cinema 1080 UB, it has a real advantage over the Viewsonic, except where lumens are critical.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/viewsonic/pro8100/proscons.php

yeah man. i DON'T what a POS. that IS way i am askin you guys.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
oops, i posted the wrong quote

Viewsonic Pro8100 vs JVC RS2

The RS2 simply put, is the best projector in the price range, although more expensive. In this case, the Viewsonic has the brightness advantage in both "best" and "brightest" modes, and has the edge in sharpness, but, after that, it's all JVC! I see the RS1x, not the RS2 as the direct competitor for the Viewsonic.
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
":confused:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/dla-rs10/summary.php"

look at this one, also.
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/viewsonic-pro8100-lcd

..............................



er. dood. the b stock special was LESS money than what you were already considering. For even less money, like $1,300, the last deal was the one BMX told us about, the BenQ 5000 for 1.5k. Of course, it finally sold out.


yeah, thats for what i was thinking of spending. now, idk. and i didn't know about the benq 5000.
............

Otherwise, don't buy a complete POS, ok? It's not like the difference is subtle, OK? I'm talking blowing everything you've ever seen out of the water like recently for 2.3k. I mean everything. Any theater you've ever been to in your life. Capiche?

no, i don't want a pos. thats why i am asking.... and theaters, the pictures don't impress me.

...................


You live near Chicago. There has got to be opportunity there.

i'm sure there is. if only i could find em.

btw. sorry for the crappy multiquote :eek:
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
UPDATE

your going to hate me. but hear me out.

i bought the VeiwSonic pro8100.
reasons :

quietness = extremely important to me.
price. and with prices coming down so fast. i didn't want a $2500 machine, turning into a $1000 machine in a matter of months. that is exactly what has happened to a ae3000 resale. if i had bought a ae3000 2 months ago, and i almost did. i would now be kicking myself around the block.

i have the unit mounted 2' above my head. in econo mode, it is DEAD QUIET !
normal mode, can be heard a little during dead quiet scenes.

this machine has a lot of features. i have a DIY S-I-L-V-E-R mix. sprayed on a 4'x8' thrifty white board. mounted 13" from the wall, no boarder.

the image quality, to me, is just FANTASTIC ! lots of detail, blacks are plenty good. colors, man, the colors are just AMAZING. SPEED RACER , last night, i was like :eek:. no other projector i have seen(thats not a lot), rs1 being one of them. can't touch what i have, for how each was set up.

i have a video up. the image quality in this vid, the whites are washed out. but it gives an idea what i have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzIjkoqoz40

anyway
THANX for all your advice. it DIDN'T fall on deaf ears. i just weighed all my issues. pulled the trigger. and, so far, i have exactly what i wanted = actually much more. as i didn't expect the image quality to be this good. as evidenced by the other fp i had seen.

oh. yes. this has a calibration on it.
 
Last edited:
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Well done, congrats, and welcome to the world of FP. Man, your theater has really come along. :)

For me, I find the flashing lights pretty distracting, as well as the reflections off the speakers/subs. You seem to be pretty handy... I might consider building a false wall of sorts... maybe even with a recessed "shadow box" of sorts. Frame something up, use acoustically transparent material, and all of a sudden no electronics or speakers in sight. :) Just an idea ...
 
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