screen help

[mike c]

1) can a screen be mounted away from the front wall i.e. hanging from the ceiling ... would it swing and sway?

2) can you guys recommend some screens (online would be preferrable)?

3) if i was to want an acoustically transparent screen ... would that sacrifice picture quality?

 

[BMXTRIX]

1) can a screen be mounted away from the front wall i.e. hanging from the ceiling ... would it swing and sway?

Generally speaking, fixed on-wall screens should be treated as such. Yet, you may still do this. If you do this with a screen not designed to be mounted away from the wall, you will want to come up with a way to weight the bottom of the screen to help it avoid room drafts.

The only reason a screen would move if there is enough airflow in the room to get it moving, and the more a screen weighs, the harder it is to get it to move.

Tab-tensioned, motorized screens from quality manufacturers use fairly lightweight material with a HEAVY bar at the bottom. This means that even a breeze gets something moving, the bar pulls it all downward and tight and motion stops very quickly... Unless there is a lot of air movement.

2) can you guys recommend some screens (online would be preferrable)?

www.carada.com is one of the best you can get at any price, and is cheap for the quality you get.
www.draperinc.com
www.dalite.com
www.stewartfilmscreen.com
http://www.elitescreens.com/

If you are on a really tight budget and considered do it yourself options, then www.htdepot.com has some very inexpensive offerrings that are of pretty solid quality.

3) if i was to want an acoustically transparent screen ... would that sacrifice picture quality?

It can if you go to cheap. But, newer AT screens have holes in the fabric which are designed to mate with 1080p projectors nicely. You do get something like 10-20% light loss from AT screens, but this is actually not horrendous and should simply be considered with whatever projector you get, and can be corrected with a 1.3. gain screen.

Similar to how the acoustics of the room plays a huge part of how your audio will sound in the room, the color of the room and all furniture plays a huge part in the visual quality of the projector. Dang it! It's a theater, paint it like your theater, not your family room!

Read some of my screen FAQs here...
http://www.bigscreenforums.com/forum_topic.cfm?which=3448

Look at how lighting affects display quality here...
http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

Always consider screen size as a reference between THX viewing standards and your personal preferences for theater viewing.

That is - screen width = .66x your viewing distance. If you sit at 12', then you want a screen 8' wide, or about 110" diagonal. BUT! If you prefer sitting towards the back of a movie theater, you may want something smaller, and if you like sitting towards the front of the theater you may want something a bit larger. 110" would be similar to sitting in the center of a properly designed movie theater.

 

[mike c]

so does Carada for example have an AT screen? (looking at their site now - doesn't look like it)

more info:
this is a dedicated HT. gray ceilings, dark red walls, lights out when watching, all windows boarded up permanently

so do the prices on these sites include the heavy metal thing at the bottom, or should i be looking in the "accessories" department of those sites?

 

[BMXTRIX]

so does Carada for example have an AT screen? (looking at their site now - doesn't look like it)

No - I've mentioned this to them several times.

so do the prices on these sites include the heavy metal thing at the bottom, or should i be looking in the "accessories" department of those sites?

Typically, fixed wall mounted screens aren't really designed to hang from the ceiling, and would require you to come up with your own solution. Only motorized, tab-tensioned screens have the heavy metal bars at the bottom by default.

Really, fixed screens are designed for on-wall hanging like a picture would be. It might be worth looking at the instruction manual for some of the screens you are looking at to see if it would work in your setup.

I've never personally tried hanging a screen away from a wall which was designed for on-wall usage, but if I did, I would probably use blocking to extend it from the wall instead of hanging it from the wall freely.

 

[lsiberian]

I basically sit on axis with my speakers and have my screen directly above the speakers. It works very well and the screen is plenty big for me. Plus when I get a reclining couch it will be nice to be able to watch movies reclined some.

I don't think an AT is necessary for most rooms.

 

[AVRat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike c
so does Carada for example have an AT screen? (looking at their site now - doesn't look like it)

No - I've mentioned this to them several times.

Did they offer a response?

 

[rmk]

1) can a screen be mounted away from the front wall i.e. hanging from the ceiling ... would it swing and sway?

2) can you guys recommend some screens (online would be preferrable)?

3) if i was to want an acoustically transparent screen ... would that sacrifice picture quality?

I use a powered screen and it hangs from the ceiling with no swinging and swaying but then, I don't have multiple big a$$ ported subs blowing wind on my screen either. Also, unless your ceilings are low having the screen that high could be a problem.

AT screens will never look as good as non-perf/weave, so unless you have to hide the speakers or some other good reason, it is better to stay with non-AT.

Carada would be a good non-AT option.

Seymour if you want AT

 

[BMXTRIX]

Did they offer a response?

I think I heard something along the lines of "We are always evaluating our future business products." or something to that nature.

Pretty typical response, but nothing really solid. I think Carada has some great stuff, but they are a bit behind the curve for variety in their product line up. Great stuff, but would love to see more of it from them if possible.

 

[jostenmeat]

1) can a screen be mounted away from the front wall i.e. hanging from the ceiling ... would it swing and sway?

What rmk said! I'm not worried about breezes, but I would worry about the subwooferage you own. Your best chances would be so that the drivers aren't nearby and firing directly into/at it.

2) can you guys recommend some screens (online would be preferrable)?

I think my screen is awesome, the Dalite High Power Model C. It is inherently heavier because of the emulsified glass beads. Mine was so darn heavy, it took three people to mount. Mine has the roller attached directly to the front wall studs, but here are options:

floating mount for model C
http://www.dalite.com/products/product_flash/floatingMountingBracket/

Ceiling trim kit
http://www.dalite.com/products/product_flash/ceilingTrimKit/

while I don't know how much these options cost, the screen itself is extremely affordable. Very high gain, when on-axis. Fast drop off in brightness when considerably off axis. You wanna stay within 20 degrees or so, if you can. What's cool is that you can extend your pipe (projector) lower as the bulb ages. That's what I'm doing now, 75 sq ft screen, 800 hours on bulb, and still looks jaw dropping at low lamp. (High lamp way too loud anyways).

Projector People sells them. I had mine custom ordered in black, no problem, with CSR.

3) if i was to want an acoustically transparent screen ... would that sacrifice picture quality?

Depends who you ask. I would think that an "audioholic" would be the first person to make any existing sacrifice towards audio. I tell you having my dialogue better locked to the screen would be the single biggest improvement to my HT I can think of right now. Just a matter of how much I'd be sacrificing in video... hard to predict, especially with the size I have . . . (and forget the costs!).



EDIT: Mike,

how big of a screen are you looking at?

what is the purpose of ceiling mount, especially if considering non-AT?

If AT, you could still build a false wall, and have a "wall mounted" screen.... ?

 

[Vracer111]

What is the purpose for wanting the screen off the wall - needed distance to seating/cost savings for a smaller screen at a closer distance?

 

[mike c]

the room is too narrow to get a screen big enough for my distance.
my current screen is 108" i'm sitting 13' away.
it's currently mounted on a "blackboard" type thingy.
i spent 500 bucks on my screen. i notice the screen during plain light colored scenes ...

granted, i've never seen a decent screen in my life though ... but i feel that the screen is the weakest link in my video chain.

i was thinking that the front left and right are taking space for what could be say a 120" screen.

 

[rmk]

the room is too narrow to get a screen big enough for my distance.
my current screen is 108" i'm sitting 13' away.
it's currently mounted on a "blackboard" type thingy.
i spent 500 bucks on my screen. i notice the screen during plain light colored scenes ...

granted, i've never seen a decent screen in my life though ... but i feel that the screen is the weakest link in my video chain.

i was thinking that the front left and right are taking space for what could be say a 120" screen.

I have a suggestion re screen quality. Request samples (at least 12"X12") from several screen manufacturers. Then pause several movie scenes while having one of your "minions" hold the sample up to your existing screen. Have them slide it over the surface so that you can see the differences in contrast and clarity. Make sure to get samples of several gains as well as both white and gray screen material.

This simple test will reveal much.

 

[jostenmeat]

mike c, you have multiple HT threads in the member system subforum, and they're pretty long to boot. Could you post a few pics in this thread?

I will say that I pretty much never, ever notice my screen. It totally "disappears", IMO. Yes, upgrade!!!

 

[mike c]

i use the same screen on both HT's ... but we don't even use the other one.


(ignore the shine from the topglass on the two subs, i'm moving my subwoofers around)

hmmm ... getting samples to the philippines ...

 

[jostenmeat]

EDIT: Mike,

how big of a screen are you looking at?

what is the purpose of ceiling mount, especially if considering non-AT?

If AT, you could still build a false wall, and have a "wall mounted" screen.... ?

108"? It seems* to me that you could put a bigger one in. You can also move the backboard thing forward. Or you can sit closer, unless the acoustical compromise is too much.

Regarding my second question, are you thinking of ceiling mounting to indeed get the screen closer (can't move the backboard)?

BMX really loves Carada, so that counts for something. Some people might tell you that at 108", my choice of screen could be TOO bright. But, some people like to have it as bright as possible. What is cool is that you can retract/contract the projector's pipe for some bit of adjustment.

 

[mike c]

yes, i can move the backboard forward ...
basically, the AT is for losing the backboard in the first place ... but then again, PQ should be the first upgrade over the acoustical properties of the screen.

i still have a lot of DVD's which is why i've not moved it to at least 1:1 size:distance ratio. but maybe it would be worth a try. (but that won't solve the noticing the screen thing)

i'll check out the Carada prices ...

so does Carada have drop down screens?

 

[jostenmeat]

yes, i can move the backboard forward ...
basically, the AT is for losing the backboard in the first place ... but then again, PQ should be the first upgrade over the acoustical properties of the screen.

i still have a lot of DVD's which is why i've not moved it to at least 1:1 size:distance ratio. but maybe it would be worth a try. (but that won't solve the noticing the screen thing)

i'll check out the Carada prices ...

so does Carada have drop down screens?

Your current viewing angle is 33.6 degrees, which is just 2.4 shy of the THX rec for a 16:9 screen. So, nevermind, just adjust only according to your personal preference at this point. One foot closer, at 12ft, does get you 36.2. I'm at 42 for the front row.

I don't think* Carada offers drop down. I also think* that the two different models are identical as far as the screen material itself, and the differences probably lie in the frame/borders.

This is the thing, one of the few things BMX will really emphasize in avoiding is a pulldown without tab tensioning. Problem is the exorbitant cost. And therefore, he, and others, will nearly always recommend a fixed frame. For waves WILL develop, no matter if manual or electric. So even if you are doing AT, you want a fixed frame, plus false wall type of thing.

The nice thing about my screen is that it doesn't suffer waving, or at least anywhere as bad as other types of screens. It's not even offered as tab tensioned, or fixed for that matter AFAIK, as it's much heavier and stiffer. A few folks have actually ripped out the screen material for a DIY fixed frame, but as noted, it's very stiff, and there's basically zero give, which makes that more difficult. (Cheaper to buy the pulldown and rip it out, than ordering the material separately, at least according to some AVSers).

BUT, it doesn't seem imperative to use a pulldown in your case, and especially not if you're using a non AT. The real reason to get my screen is to really boost the brightness, and/or shedding ambient light issues.

So, my rec boils down to this: fixed frame Carada, or fixed frame AT with false wall.

 

[mike c]

thanks! lol, i like people deciding for me (really) on things i have no idea about.
i want you to say "buy this one, you can't find anything better"

so what i would want to do is try to get carada samples ... do they give those out free?

16:9 size right?

 

[jostenmeat]

thanks! lol, i like people deciding for me (really) on things i have no idea about.
i want you to say "buy this one, you can't find anything better"

haha

so what i would want to do is try to get carada samples ... do they give those out free?

Don't know man. Even if they charged you, I'm sure it can't be THAT much. And you never know what kind of exception they would make for an AH mod. Maybe telling them that BMX (AV Integrated) sent you could help! telling them that jostenmeat sent you will do absolutely nothing for you, OTOH.

16:9 size right?

Yes.

carada contact info:

info@carada.com

205-280-6546

866-414-6546


oh lastly, I'm thinking Brilliant White (1.4 gain) at, um, maybe 114"? Add about $50-60 for BW. Shipping in US is about $60... which would mean about $984 for me. For you... dunno...


EDIT: at this larger size, I do want you to ask for DaLite HIGH Power sample. It will be significantly cheaper than Carada fixed. It's manual, but I think it's phenomenal.

contact info
http://www.da-lite.com/whos_who/

avs thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773065

 

[mike c]

umm options? where's the "you buy this" recommendation?

so to check:
same size + closer = bigger size + same distance

correct?

http://www.da-lite.com/products/pricing_pdfs/39.pdf