DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[droht]

I am considering grabbing some x series speakers from av123. The reviews are great and the price is right on the sale stuff. All the info I see about mls suggests he's an audio pioneer, well regarded by peers and has surrounded himself with excellent people. I guess a combination of personal issues and sh!t economy have affected him and his company. I'm sure he is the heartbeat of av123. He has been posting on his forum... A good sign. He seems to fixing all the problems at av123. I was going to buy polks on newegg, but I think it might be worth getting x-ls's. What do you think? Btw... I am generally optomistic!

Performance-wise I felt the x-ls classics were clearly better than anything from Polk under the LSi series. Cabinet quality on x-ls is way, way better than Polks, imo. You've got to decide for yourself about the company...

 

[ack_bak]

I am considering grabbing some x series speakers from av123. The reviews are great and the price is right on the sale stuff. All the info I see about mls suggests he's an audio pioneer, well regarded by peers and has surrounded himself with excellent people. I guess a combination of personal issues and sh!t economy have affected him and his company. I'm sure he is the heartbeat of av123. He has been posting on his forum... A good sign. He seems to fixing all the problems at av123. I was going to buy polks on newegg, but I think it might be worth getting x-ls's. What do you think? Btw... I am generally optomistic!

If you do buy from them, I would only buy in-stock merchandise and make sure you use a credit card in case you need to file a dispute. If you order the in-stock speakers and they do not ship promptly, cancel the order.

It seems like people are getting stuff that is in-stock. And I would never buy anything from the CEO directly. I would only order through av123 direct.

Personally though, I have a hard time giving my money to anyone who has handled himself the way the CEO of av123 has. Clearly the guy is a liar and he definitely put his company in a tight spot with taking peoples money and then not following through on his promises for month after month. But that is just me

 

[just listening]

Droht:
The Polk RTi and lower can't hold a candle to x-series, and I don't even think they match up well against the ELT's, which are serious *** kicker for such a small price.

ack:
I couldn't agree more, in-stock and by credit card is the only way to go. Remember, AV123 direct is no different from the owner, it's his company, so I'm struggling with your statement.

Something everybody who follows this thread should know is that AV123 took over $800,000 in hits between chinese subcontractors using black market parts on the sub amps, and a factory parts manager in Columbia fudging the numbers on x-series component costs. Most companies would have closed their doors and the customers permanently screwed. At least Schifter has acknowledged his faults in their forum (I can hear his lawyers screaming NOOOOOO!!!!!!). And is now working to resolve things (even with his current health issues), though it does NOT excuse his failure to take care of them in a timely manner.

 

[ack_bak]

ack:
I couldn't agree more, in-stock and by credit card is the only way to go. Remember, AV123 direct is no different from the owner, it's his company, so I'm struggling with your statement.

He (Schifter) was selling b-stock merchandise via the av123 forums and people were paying him directly via paypal, not via the normal av123 channels for b-stock gear.

It sounds like Schifter is trying to make things right so you have to give him credit there, but it should never have come down to that.

At any rate av123 makes some amazing looking and sounding speakers. I have no doubt that people are getting some great bargains right now and I have said my piece as to why I would not give them my money right now. But that is my money and I cannot blame somebody for spending their money on av123 gear. Could be worse. You could be buying Bose

 

[TjMV3]

So what happened with Grant (the original thread started)?

Last we heard things were " in the process of being resolved ".

What's happened since then, Grant?

I mean, pleanty of time has passed since Mark got the ball rolling to a resolution. Have you been properly compensated or your money returned to you?

What about the other guys who were waiting? Any definitive resolution?

 

[Joeteck]

I've been holding back on my comments and reading the posts via e-mail...but..

This thread has to be giving AV123 a bad rap, wouldn't you agree? After reading what they do to their customers does not make me feel fuzzy inside.

From the sounds of it, anyone could be the next victim of AV123.

Granted, the original poster is getting his stuff, right? but it should not have to come to posting a thread like this...?

Why would anyone from here buy anything from a shady place like this?

Good deal or not, I would steer clear from this place...

Just my 2 cents..

 

[Grantc79]

So what happened with Grant (the original thread started)?

Last we heard things were " in the process of being resolved ".

What's happened since then, Grant?

I mean, pleanty of time has passed since Mark got the ball rolling to a resolution. Have you been properly compensated or your money returned to you?

What about the other guys who were waiting? Any definitive resolution?

Ryan was shipped a cashiers check as well as a free ELT system for his troubles.



All I can tell you guys is that Ryan purchased these items long ago and I'm sure there was very little he could have done legally at this point. If MLS wanted to stiff us he could have and he didn't. Does that excuse the fact that he is very, very late on so many orders? Absolutely not. However I do think that it shows pretty clearly that he is acting as much in good faith as he can and he isn't attempting to scam, rob, or defraud anyone as has been suggested.

If nothing else this situation definitely does demonstrate that if he was out to rip people off that he wouldn't have given my friend a full refund much less free gear on top of that. I have had personal communications with MLS since this debacle started and I see whats going on a bit more clearly now.

At the end of the day I think his company pushed itself right to the very limit of what they could do. Then everything that could have screwed up did so 99% of which was out of their control. That said the 1% that was in their control was to not put themselves in that situation and without that 1% the other 99% could not have happened. Top it off with MLS getting very sick and you have the biggest train wreck ever. A lot of vendors and suppliers dropped the ball to put them in this situation. But at the end of the day as long as AV123 is taking the customer's money it is their job to deliver irregardless of what else happens.


As it stands now I have my LS6's and they are wonderful and my MFW's work perfectly as does all my other AV123 gear. The only complaint I had was on behalf of my friend and that was rectified and then some by MLS.

I suppose all I can say is that they offer some amazing products for their price point but sometimes you might have to be very patient or in rare cases go through some unintended grief to get them.

I think they have put themselves in a very bad situation but I think they are taking the right steps to get out of that bad situation. But it won't happen overnight. I don't think anyone should be trying to file lawsuits as I think at the end of the day everyone is going to get what they want.

Its just going to take some time.

My 2 cents.

 

[majorloser]

Grant,

Thanks for getting back to us. I'm glad you finally have some satisfaction. It's a shame things have gotten so convoluted with AV123 that things like this had to happen. They have a very loyal following of customers. But I do agree the recent situation has tainted the image to some extent. Only time will tell if they will be able to rise above it.

"Caveat Emptor"

 

[exander]

From the sounds of it, anyone could be the next victim of AV123.

What do you base this statement on? You make it sound like they're on a mission to screw over customers. Everyone acknowledges they screwed up. And now they're making every effort to make up for it; ask anyone who has purchased from them in the past couple weeks. If they started screwing up again, I could see the reason for your post. But there's nothing to indicate that the problems will occur again. . . at this point.

Also, read my posts here:
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/AV123

And here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54958

 

[Grantc79]

Grant,

Thanks for getting back to us. I'm glad you finally have some satisfaction. It's a shame things have gotten so convoluted with AV123 that things like this had to happen. They have a very loyal following of customers. But I do agree the recent situation has tainted the image to some extent. Only time will tell if they will be able to rise above it.

"Caveat Emptor"

Not a problem, I think I owed you guys an updated after all of this drama that has erupted because of this thread.

I feel everyone's pain that is waiting on stuff because one of my best friends was in that same boat and I'm the one that suggested that he jump in that boat so I felt very much responsible.

That said I know my happy ending is not much consolation to those still waiting on LS's or whatever else.

That said I do have full confidence that as long as MLS is around everything will be dealt with. It might not be as quickly as some of you might like but it will get resolved.

 

[Joeteck]

What do you base this statement on? You make it sound like they're on a mission to screw over customers. Everyone acknowledges they screwed up. And now they're making every effort to make up for it; ask anyone who has purchased from them in the past couple weeks. If they started screwing up again, I could see the reason for your post. But there's nothing to indicate that the problems will occur again. . . at this point.

Also, read my posts here:
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/AV123

And here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54958

I'm basing it on the title of the thread, and the first post... And the rest of the posts during the attempt to fix the screw up! Did I miss anything?? I'm entitled to have an opinion. Many would agree. Why would anyone continue buying from them? If he never made a big deal about it in the first place, I bet it still would have been unresolved and the OP would have been out big money. And since the OP, posted here and made a a real big deal about, they needed to fix it to get the confidence back of the rest of their customers... Thats why the link you are referring, the customer is very happy. AV123 is spending the time it needs to make everyone happy...now... It will wear off, and it will happen again...

 

[majorloser]

Just as there is no reason to say it WON'T happen again.

Knowledge of past business practices are valid tools a customer can use prior to making a purchase. Consumer reporting agencies and the BBB have made a successful business providing this information to the consumer. Both negative and positive experiences. It's up to the consumer to do the research.

Again,

Caveat Emptor

 

[exander]

I'm basing it on the title of the thread, and the first post... And the rest of the posts during the attempt to fix the screw up! Did I miss anything?? I'm entitled to have an opinion. Many would agree. Why would anyone continue buying from them? If he never made a big deal about it in the first place, I bet it still would have been unresolved and the OP would have been out big money. And since the OP, posted here and made a a real big deal about, they needed to fix it to get the confidence back of the rest of their customers... Thats why the link you are referring, the customer is very happy. AV123 is spending the time it needs to make everyone happy...now... It will wear off, and it will happen again...

You certainly are entitled to your opinion. My bad. And there's no guarantee it won't happen again in the future. I guess AV123's actions will speak for themselves. That's why I hope people start using Reseller Ratings. So I have a single source of information about how the company is behaving.

My experience so far has been positive. YMMV.

 

[Grantc79]

I just received a PM from someone asking me if they should make a purchase from AV123 given all of this and this is my response for any who care to read it:

Well, allow me to go into a little detail.

I currently own and am happy with through AV123:

LS6's Towers
Strata Mini's
2 MFW's
X-SLS's
X-Voce

I have owned more stuff in the past from them including their rocket line which are also awesome products. They have always been very, very helpful and the only time I had to return anything they were very easy to deal with.

That said, I waited FOREVER for my LS's and my MFW's.

I WOULD NOT preorder anything that is in development from them. I WOULD preorder anything that is not in development from them.

The people that are having to go through agonizing waits are the ones that preordered a product that was still in development and ran into a ton of snags.

 

[exander]

I just received a PM from someone asking me if they should make a purchase from AV123 given all of this and this is my response for any who care to read it:

Thanks for sharing that. I think that's helpful for everyone.

 

[Grantc79]

Thanks for sharing that. I think that's helpful for everyone.

You are welcome and that is my honest appraisal of the situation.

As long as you aren't ordering an unfinished product that hasn't cleared development stage then you are fine. I personally don't think its ever wise to buy an unproven product yet.

Would you pre-order a concept car that has never been mass produced yet? I would have said "hell no you are crazy" but I did it with LS6's and hated doing it until I received them and now I'm in love with them so I'm just crazy I suppose.

That said I think they are a fine company for any order of in stock merchandise or pre-order that is a proven product like the X series or Rocket line. Those are tough to go wrong on.

 

[gwilks98]

I just received a PM from someone asking me if they should make a purchase from AV123 given all of this and this is my response for any who care to read it:

There's a certain amount of common sense here. If you decide to pre-order from an ID company, make sure you have some sort of out-clause.

I pre-ordered and waited 5 months instead of 3. It sucked. Big time.

But...I can tell you, I was taken care of when I voiced my complaints directly to them, and the product was worth the wait. It doesn't justify the wait, but looking back, I'm glad I stuck it out. And this is said knowing I went through dealing with a dying father, a failing family business, a lost girlfriend (almost fiance), a lost pet, an empty house, and an uncertain job. I wanted my speakers (read:distraction) in the worst way. Still, it was worth the wait.

It's a bit upsetting to see a thread like this hit 40 pages. It's a fine company going through rough times. It still has my recommendation.

 

[lsiberian]

I just received a PM from someone asking me if they should make a purchase from AV123 given all of this and this is my response for any who care to read it:

I wouldn't buy anything from them nor would I recommend their products. They decided to fraud people out of money and have questionable business practices. If you support this company you are supporting bad business practices. I'm sorry, but there are many other speaker makers out there. And I don't see them screwing people. If they want to repair their reputation they have a lot of work to do.

 

[fredk]

I wouldn't order anything from them unless it was in stock and you could verify shipment independantly in time to stop payment if they do not ship when promised. Nobody but MLS and crew know the true situation and their recent history is not good.

Caution is in order and yes, there are plenty of other manufacturers out there that make excellent speakers.

 

[jongaro]

I wouldn't buy anything from them nor would I recommend their products. They decided to fraud people out of money and have questionable business practices. If you support this company you are supporting bad business practices. I'm sorry, but there are many other speaker makers out there. And I don't see them screwing people. If they want to repair their reputation they have a lot of work to do.

I'm not sure how you are qualified to make this statement given the fact that you don't own their products... at least from your signature. If I am correct, you are simply someone jumping on the band wagon, fanning the flames, and basing your opinions on what you've read, not experienced.