speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Folks, look at what I found over on AVS. Onkyo will be the first to debut the Dolby Pro Logic IIz sound codec. It sure looks promising in that Onkyo put it on the more affordable units as opposed to the more expensive. Kudos to Onkyo for doing so. What do you think? The new codec is designed to involve the audience more. It sure has my attention. ;);) Here is a link:

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/onkyo_introduces_the_worlds_1st_av_receiver_with_dolby_prologic_iiz

Have a great day folks. Hope you all find this helpful. :):)

Cheers,

Phil
 
CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
Didn’t Yamaha already do something similar with the RX-Z9 receiver, being a 9.1 deal? Also, wouldn’t the movie need to be encoded for these effects to be…effective? Does it work in harmony with Dolby True HD & DTS Master, or instead of it? Do people really want more speakers in their home theater?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Sounds like a matrix decoder, not a codec. 7.2 capability, but not sure if anyone is going to run out and want to buy an extra set of speakers for the "height" aspect. Another implementaton of Yamaha's presence channels?
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Didn’t Yamaha already do something similar with the RX-Z9 receiver, being a 9.1 deal? Also, wouldn’t the movie need to be encoded for these effects to be…effective? Does it work in harmony with Dolby True HD & DTS Master, or instead of it? Do people really want more speakers in their home theater?
I am really not too sure Craig as there is really not much info being released as of just yet. All of your points are valid, but just don't have enough info to even comment. Perhaps, other members here may be able to chime in regarding such issues? It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

Cheers,

Phil
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
There was a discussion on this new codec on another thread linked here. I'm linking just in case you want to check out other people's comments. Thanks, Phil.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Sounds like a matrix decoder, not a codec. 7.2 capability, but not sure if anyone is going to run out and want to buy an extra set of speakers for the "height" aspect. Another implementaton of Yamaha's presence channels?
It could very well be John. I just stumbled across it this afternoon while over at AVS. In fact, still reading up on it a bit. Thus, I thought it might be helpful. In time, I am sure we all will know more.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
There was a discussion on this new codec on another thread linked here. I'm linking just in case you want to check out other people's comments. Thanks, Phil.
Appreciate the link Adam. I will check it out right now. There is nothing like new technology-well most of the time anyways. ;);) Hope all is well my friend. BTW, you just became my #1000 thank you......LOL!!!!

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I am honored! Thanks, man.

I'll be just as honored to be your #1001, #1002, #1003... :D
LOL.......alrighty then. After looking at your link, it appears to be a bunch of horse-sh*t and/or marketing tactics. Oh well, I tried to be helpful. :D:D

Cheers,

Phil
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Am I being cynical here in thinking that this new codec is just a gimmick? I swear Dolby labs and receiver manufacturers sleep together just to bring out new features baiting consumers to upgrade. :p

Seriously though, I got my Yamaha RX-V1800 about 4 monthes ago and I hope this beast will last me for the rest of my audio years without having to upgrade. I only have 5.1..may consider going 7.1 once the kids move out.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
You can read what Dolby has to say about Pro Logic IIz here:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic-IIz.html

If Dolby sells it to the manufacturers, you will get it in your future home theater whether it is worthwhile or not. For my part, I don't care for any matrixed sound that I have heard that was not originally encoded into the signal (à la Dolby Pro Logic I). I don't even like the added processing of Dolby Pro Logic II for Dolby Pro Logic I encoded material, so I doubt that I will have any use for this new thing, which seems suspiciously like an added thing that Yamaha has been doing for years on their high end receivers.

If it is really a good idea to have front height speakers, I think they should be recorded as discrete channels instead of processing fewer channels artificially into more channels.

However, I will reserve final judgement until after I actually hear it.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Am I being cynical here in thinking that this new codec is just a gimmick? I swear Dolby labs and receiver manufacturers sleep together just to bring out new features baiting consumers to upgrade. :p

Seriously though, I got my Yamaha RX-V1800 about 4 monthes ago and I hope this beast will last me for the rest of my audio years without having to upgrade. I only have 5.1..may consider going 7.1 once the kids move out.
No, I don't think you are being cynical at all. In fact, you make a valid point. This is why I refereed to this new codec as a bunch of horse-sh*t. Marketing at its best if you ask me. ;);)

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
You can read what Dolby has to say about Pro Logic IIz here:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic-IIz.html

If Dolby sells it to the manufacturers, you will get it in your future home theater whether it is worthwhile or not. For my part, I don't care for any matrixed sound that I have heard that was not originally encoded into the signal (à la Dolby Pro Logic I). I don't even like the added processing of Dolby Pro Logic II for Dolby Pro Logic I encoded material, so I doubt that I will have any use for this new thing, which seems suspiciously like an added thing that Yamaha has been doing for years on their high end receivers.

If it is really a good idea to have front height speakers, I think they should be recorded as discrete channels instead of processing fewer channels artificially into more channels.

However, I will reserve final judgement until after I actually hear it.
Interesting perspective here. Very good way of summing things up quite nicely. But in the end, I guess we really need to hear it first before passing judgment. Thanks for the link.

Cheers,

Phil
 
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Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Interesting perspective here. Very good way of summing things up quite nicely. But in the end, I guess we really need to hear it first before passing judgment. Thanks for the link.

Cheers,

Phil
Thank you.

My subjective impression of added surround processing is that it can add a sense of "spaciousness", but at the cost of "clarity" and "focus". If one's speakers are cheap and lack clarity, the cost might not be too high, and the added spaciousness may make it all seem worthwhile.

In the case of using DPL II to decode DPL I material, my subjective impression is that it sometimes sounds better, sometimes about the same, and sometimes worse, which can all happen in the same movie at different places in the soundtrack. It is the worse times that keep me from using it, as the worse, to me, sounds very wrong. That, of course, should be no surprise, as it is redirecting (aka misdirecting) some of the front channel sounds to the rear, so things are not being placed where they should be placed. When it is wrong, it is just plain bad, in my opinion. In those cases where DPL II subjectively sounds better, DPL I does not sound wrong, so the gain is not as much as the cost, in my opinion. Obviously, most people seem to perfer having things misdirected with DPL II, so it would hardly be surprising if most of the people who read this have a different opinion on the matter.

For those interested in reading about how DPL works, you might want to read:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395470&postcount=28
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Thank you.

My subjective impression of added surround processing is that it can add a sense of "spaciousness", but at the cost of "clarity" and "focus". If one's speakers are cheap and lack clarity, the cost might not be too high, and the added spaciousness may make it all seem worthwhile.

In the case of using DPL II to decode DPL I material, my subjective impression is that it sometimes sounds better, sometimes about the same, and sometimes worse, which can all happen in the same movie at different places in the soundtrack. It is the worse times that keep me from using it, as the worse, to me, sounds very wrong. That, of course, should be no surprise, as it is redirecting (aka misdirecting) some of the front channel sounds to the rear, so things are not being placed where they should be placed. When it is wrong, it is just plain bad, in my opinion. In those cases where DPL II subjectively sounds better, DPL I does not sound wrong, so the gain is not as much as the cost, in my opinion. Obviously, most people seem to perfer having things misdirected with DPL II, so it would hardly be surprising if most of the people who read this have a different opinion on the matter.

For those interested in reading about how DPL works, you might want to read:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395470&postcount=28
Thanks for the link once again. Appreciate your input. ;);)

Cheers,

Phil
 
F

fractile

Junior Audioholic
There are channels for height information in the surround specification (whatever that is called), which goes up to 22.2 channels, as far as I know. How a third dimension can be synthesized effectively, realistically, from a two dimensional program source, I don't know.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Not much program material I've ever listened to was done great justice by matrixed surround of any kind, at least it's never meant enough to me to insist upon it for a feature. Dolby Pro Logic II for example really doesn't make me feel anymore involved than regular Dolby or stereo for that matter. Discrete surround sound has more than one advantage that always makes me want to crank it up. The first reason is that each speaker is receiving it's own "real" channel of audio. The second reason is the LFE. Ever listen to 5.1 downmixed to 2 channel while using a subwoofer, even with Dolby Pro Logic II? Did you then compare it to 5.1? The difference is clear, I like to feel bass in a movie. If the bass cannot be felt as it is with 5.1 or higher, then the reason to turn it up becomes a non-concern to me. For two channel sources I run two channel in most cases.:)
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
More gimicky cr@p....

I am headed towards a 7.4 setup, but I have never been a huge fan of matrixed material over 5.1......

I am looking forward to finally graduating to 1080p and getting a Bluray player... bring on the 7 channel movies !!!
 
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speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
It is obvious that many feel as though this new codec is nothing but BS. I guess it comes down to a point of diminishing returns. With respect to this new codec, it looks to be more marketing hype than anything. ;);)

Cheers,

Phil
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I've never been a fan of DSPs like PLII.

For me, it's Direct, Pure Direct, DD, DTS, TrueHD, DTS-HD, PCM, and DSD-Direct.

But when I watched Galopagos BD, which is in 2.0, I "accidentally" listened to PLII. Oops!

It actually sounded pretty darn good.

I think it varies from source to source. Some sources sound terrible with PLII, while others actually benefit.

I've never tried PLIIx because I only believe in 5.1 (for now).

So who knows? Perhaps PLIIz might just benefit some sources?
 
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