Paradigm Signature S8's

[greggp2]

Does anyone have any experience or have auditioned the paradigm Signature S8's? If so, how does it compare to B&W Nautilus speakers? Say 802 or 803's?

 

[Davemcc]

Here's a thread you might find interesting.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42102

 

[johnrmarty]

I have been a dealer of the Paradigm speaker line for many years and I can tell you that without a doubt the Paradigm Signature S8's are some of the best speakers I have heard hands down. We go to Cedia every year and many manufacturers have speakers that are three times the price as the the S8's that in my opinion do not stack up. The S8 build quality, crossover, beryllium tweeters, and price are un-matched. I have auditioned the B&W 803D (our paradigm rep is also the B&W rep) but because we do not have them in our demo room next to the S8's it is hard to tell what the side by side comparison would be. If I am not mistaken the 803's are a couple thousand $ more than the S8's, but I may be wrong....if this is the case then I ask myself are the B&W's worth 2k+ more in sound quality alone? I really don't think so. The build quality on both the Paradigm speakers and the B&W at this level are very similar, but I do think that the Paradigm is the winner on finish quality. The B&W 803D's are a bit brighter overall in my opinion which some people like, but at higher volumes this can fatigue your ears. I have the Paradigm Signature S8's next to a pair of Kef Reference 205's in one of our demo rooms as well and that is a very close comparison as well. Keep in mind that the 205's are in the 12K range and the paradigms keep up quite nice...

 

[greggp2]

Thanks. I think the Paradigms are really nice speakers and was curious. I currently have B&W 802's, but they are not the D's. I like them, but they are a bit bright. Does Paradigm dealers offer any discounts? What do these guys retail for?

 

[greggp2]

Dave, thanks for the link comparison..

 

[WmAx]

Does anyone have any experience or have auditioned the paradigm Signature S8's? If so, how does it compare to B&W Nautilus speakers? Say 802 or 803's?

The cabinet of the 802/802D makes it the superior choice by far. The 802/802D has a completely inert cabinet, acoustically, providing for virtually no timbre distortion. A very rare feature in speakers. It is the rare speaker indeed that allows for this neutral behaviour. Along with this, the 802D has a reasonably linear response. Combine it with a high quality DSP EQ like the Behringer DCX2496 and you can obtain virtually any sound you want. The Paradigm cabinet to my knowledge is not even close to comparable to the B&W 802 cabinet system, which is one of the best measuring cabinets in existence among hi-fi speaker systems.

-Chris

 

[codexp3]

I think the B&Ws are overpriced. You pay more for speakers shipped over the pond. I maintain my position that the diamond tweeters are nothing more than a gimmick. I listened to both and I picked the S8v2s over the 803Ds. Beryllium over diamond for me. That being said, B&W was in my final four along with ‘digms, Dynaudio, and Ultima2s.

 

[johnrmarty]

The whole speaker listening process is very subjective...even the look of the cabinet is subjective. All I can say is the S8v2's for the money are great speakers. Every listening room is different as well. You can go into one store and listen to the B&W's and another and listen to the Paradigms with two completely different setups, acoustic treatments, and amplification. The new S8's in cherry retail for about 7K and the piano black or maple finish retails for about $7,800. Walking in a store and getting a deal on the S8's is a bit more difficult as they are not really online. Shoot me a PM when you get a chance.

 

[Rickster71]

The cabinet of the 802/802D makes it the superior choice by far. The 802/802D has a completely inert cabinet, acoustically, providing for virtually no timbre distortion. A very rare feature in speakers. It is the rare speaker indeed that allows for this neutral behaviour. Along with this, the 802D has a reasonably linear response. Combine it with a high quality DSP EQ like the Behringer DCX2496 and you can obtain virtually any sound you want. The Paradigm cabinet to my knowledge is not even close to comparable to the B&W 802 cabinet system, which is one of the best measuring cabinets in existence among hi-fi speaker systems.

-Chris

I've always heard the B&W had a well made cabinet.
How bad is the S8's enclosure?
Can you share some of your tests?

Thanks,
Rick

 

[syd123]

The cabinet of the 802/802D makes it the superior choice by far. The 802/802D has a completely inert cabinet, acoustically, providing for virtually no timbre distortion. A very rare feature in speakers. It is the rare speaker indeed that allows for this neutral behaviour. Along with this, the 802D has a reasonably linear response. Combine it with a high quality DSP EQ like the Behringer DCX2496 and you can obtain virtually any sound you want. The Paradigm cabinet to my knowledge is not even close to comparable to the B&W 802 cabinet system, which is one of the best measuring cabinets in existence among hi-fi speaker systems.

-Chris

While avoiding audible cabinet resonances is indeed important, I don't know that this alone makes a speaker sound "right" - it's simply one of many factors. ..And as the owner of a pair of Paradigm Signature S8 v.2's, I can tell you that I have never heard any cabinet resonance - whether while playing music or when rapping my knuckles on their sides - indeed, they sound as dead as a cinder block. And I believe this was supported by measurements of the S8's that I've read.

As for build, although I cannot recall the B&W models I listened to when buying my Sigs, I don't recall the B&W's having any advantage over them in build quality. To me, the S8's are exquisitely well made.

..As for sound, well, that's very subjective. As a lover of live music, to my ears, the S8's sound about as close to live music as any speaker I've owned or listened to - regardless of price. For reference, the speakers I've owned includes: Spica TC50's (3yrs), PSB Stratus Minis (4yrs), Vandersteen 3A Sigs (4yrs), and now the Paradigm S8 v.2s.

 

[PENG]

I think the B&Ws are overpriced. You pay more for speakers shipped over the pond. I maintain my position that the diamond tweeters are nothing more than a gimmick. I listened to both and I picked the S8v2s over the 803Ds. Beryllium over diamond for me. That being said, B&W was in my final four along with ‘digms, Dynaudio, and Ultima2s.

I would pay more for the diamond. We don't know their margins so it is hard to say if we pay more (effectively speaking) because of the extra shipping cost. Years ago I used to wonder why Bryston amps were cheaper in Hong Kong (I mean from authorized dealers) considering they had to be shipped all the way from Canada. UK is certainly a lot closer. In terms of sound quality I actually find the Sig series overrated. They don't sound much different than the Studios.

 

[PENG]

Thanks. I think the Paradigms are really nice speakers and was curious. I currently have B&W 802's, but they are not the D's. I like them, but they are a bit bright. Does Paradigm dealers offer any discounts? What do these guys retail for?

They may be bright but I find live concerts are typically bright too. People like the so called "warm" sound and that's their preference. I think B&W is one of those companies who try to design and build speakers that reproduce sound faithfully (everything else, e.g. room acoustics, electronics, being equal).

 

[WmAx]

Thanks. I think the Paradigms are really nice speakers and was curious. I currently have B&W 802's, but they are not the D's. I like them, but they are a bit bright. Does Paradigm dealers offer any discounts? What do these guys retail for?

You definitely need to use a high quality DSP EQ on your speakers. This is the solution to get the sound you want on very neutral speakers like the 802s. I am not talking about some graphic equalizer. I am talking about a powerful DSP device like the Behringer DCX2496. There are some simple shelving filter functions that will solve almost any tonal issue you have. Moving down the S8 would be a certain downgrade. It's not as if I'm just some dude making blind suggestions; I have studied speaker characteristics and how they relate to human auditory response for years, and used this to design speaker systems.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

While avoiding audible cabinet resonances is indeed important, I don't know that this alone makes a speaker sound "right" - it's simply one of many factors. ..And as the owner of a pair of Paradigm Signature S8 v.2's, I can tell you that I have never heard any cabinet resonance - whether while playing music or when rapping my knuckles on their sides - indeed, they sound as dead as a cinder block. And I believe this was supported by measurements of the S8's that I've read.

Many people have made such statement as 'my speakers walls are not resonant', but in reality, the measure poorly and are resonant. It is a relative situation based on what other speakers you are comparing it to. Now, perhaps the S8 is non-resonant, but I am not aware of any measurements of it's cabinet system - and most speakers do not have inert cabinets. My reference to low/non-resonant is one that is literal - based on measured extreme low output cabinets.

An inert cabinet is a requirement for the highest of sound quality. Of course, there are many factors are you point out. This is one of the last ones that are addressed, but it is still very important if a perception of realism is to have a chance to occur without overlaying coloration(s) masking the signal.

As for build, although I cannot recall the B&W models I listened to when buying my Sigs, I don't recall the B&W's having any advantage over them in build quality. To me, the S8's are exquisitely well made.

The 802 and up (801, 800) have the cabinets with no audible acoustic output. However, the 803 does have a more densely braced cabinet compared to 99% of the hi fi speakers out there.

-Chris

 

[syd123]

"Many people have made such statement as 'my speakers walls are not resonant', but in reality, the measure poorly and are resonant. It is a relative situation based on what other speakers you are comparing it to. Now, perhaps the S8 is non-resonant, but I am not aware of any measurements of it's cabinet system - and most speakers do not have inert cabinets. My reference to low/non-resonant is one that is literal - based on measured extreme low output cabinets."

"An inert cabinet is a requirement for the highest of sound quality. Of course, there are many factors are you point out. This is one of the last ones that are addressed, but it is still very important if a perception of realism is to have a chance to occur without overlaying coloration(s) masking the signal."

I've attached links to the two reviews of the S8 v.2's that I know of. ..In both they comment on their remarkable measured performance AND their sound in use. ..In neither are they found to have cabinet issues. ..Indeed, comments about the cabinets are very positive. So, in the absence of either measurements or subjective observations that point to problems, I think one can conclude that the S8's cabinets are sufficiently inert.

Again, you seem to be elevating the pusuit of an "inert" cabinet to a place above any and all other considerations, including even driver design. ..Do you know that this one measurement trumps all others in predicting how a speaker will perform during blinded listening tests?? If so, then Paradigm, who designs and builds ALL of their drivers in-house can dispense with this costly practice and instead worry only about building more rigid cabinets. ..And they can dispense with the costly and time consuming double-blind testing they use to ensure that their speakers indeed sound like real music.

I think the cautious approach for those out to buy new speakers is to listen listen and listen some more. If speaker A sounds better than speaker B using all types of music, then that is all that matters. ..I'm not saying that the S8's would better the B&W's in this case, only that it is the only test that really matters.

www removed from both links..

soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s8/

hometheaterhifi.com/speaker-reviews/home-theater-speakers/paradigm-reference-signature-s8v2-c5v2-adp3v2-speakers-and-signature-servo-subwoofer.html

 

[WmAx]

I've attached links to the two reviews of the S8 v.2's that I know of. ..In both they comment on their remarkable measured performance AND their sound in use. ..In neither are they found to have cabinet issues. ..Indeed, comments about the cabinets are very positive. So, in the absence of either measurements or subjective observations that point to problems, I think one can conclude that the S8's cabinets are sufficiently inert.

Unfortunately, the cabinet is not addressed there. It is not uncommon for reviewers to miss such important things. In fact, most reviewers really don't seem very well qualified to begin with, and of course, often use methods of low value to review speakers. The Theil CS 3.7 is a good exampe to pose here. It has a better than average cabinet, but is still very audibly resonant when compared directly against a non resonant reference. It's effects clearly color things like piano and vocals in classical music. Most people seem inclined to say by the old knock test to say it's solid. In fact, it's not really, and it's measurements of the enclosure confirm that it is only slightly better than average.

Again, you seem to be elevating the pusuit of an "inert" cabinet to a place above any and all other considerations, including even driver design.

Not true at all. I am simply pointing out the importance of the cabinet, assuming the drivers and crossover are extremely well executed. The B&W referenced has superb drivers/crossover, overall. The S8 has excellent drivers/crossover as well. The cabinet quality is unknown to me.

-Chris

 

[codexp3]

The cabinets are very well constructed in the Signature line. The drivers are exceptionally well built. I had to take my Sigs apart to replace the tweeter (not an equipment malfunction, but an incompetent mover malfunction). Here’s the old link, you can’t see much of the cabinet.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44954

 

[Warpdrv]

I will second the suggestion of the Signature S8's .v2, regardless of what anyone has to say here....

My dealer closest to me here has every speaker in the B&W line, and I have listened to the 802D's on multiple occasions, as well as the rest of the 800's in that lineup. To me they are very UN-engaging... they simply provided me with no emotional connection to the music... sure the tweeters are nice, but they are truly just flat overall in my opinion.... Now if I have to add an EQ to make my speakers come to life, I'm sorry that to me is not what I search for in a speaker period.

I want something that will give me goosebumps and make the hair on my neck stand up with an emotional impact !!!!! That is exactly what the Paradigm Sig S8's .v2 did for me... I had to drive 2 hours so I could hear them. I auditioned them side by side with the S6's.... The Be tweeter is to me the best tweeter I have ever heard to date... It is light and delicate - airy if you will, but not overwhelming or bright even in a bright room, it just floated about the room. It is easily the same as the best ribbon tweeter I have heard, but doesn't possess the restrictiveness or beaming nature of a ribbon. The midrange is truly brilliant - bringing an extremely wide soundstage, and is very prevalent not recessed, strong and powerful mids are extremely important to me, the Sigs just do all of it right.

They are seriously the best speaker I have ever heard, and on top of that they are a complete work of art !!!! Even better, they don't look like R2D2.


John Marty, I have heard great things about you, I'll be giving you a call next week - I got recently got your info already from Ken, for the same piece of equipment he got... It was nice to see your name pop up here....

Patrick

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I listened to the S8 today, love them and will own them at some point.

 

[Warpdrv]

I listened to the S8 today, love them and will own them at some point.

They are my next speaker to replace my Studio 100 system.

My Sig S4's in rosewood are awesome speakers. I love them and the .v2's are just that next step up the chain for Paradigm.