Repair, buy, or DIY...

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padraic

Enthusiast
So originally I was just listening to 2 CH music in my small apartment on my Axiom M3Ti(s), and enjoying it very very much. Decided to add a sub years ago and picked up a Velodyne CT-100 from eBay. Had heard of the company so I just went with that name, no research. I really enjoyed the added dimension of bass extension to the music, and later, to the HT experience. I had no complaints. (Actually there were a few, just not from me.) ;)

Unfortunately, the sub no longer outputs sound. It will still auto-power on when music starts playing as tho it's receiving the input signal, but it just doesn't play. Not even a tiny little bit. I miss my belly massages. Not electronically inclined, but I'm able and willing to try. Got a buddy who's not bad with that stuff.

So I'm researching subs, and I see many favorable opinions of SVS and HSU, but I also see many favorable reviews (and expert guidance) for the DIY route.

So, here's a bullet point list of my limits and specs and questions. My musical happiness lies in the result of your collective brain-gnashings.

-what steps to undertake to isolate the old sub's problems?

- any new addition will be used only for music for now. Got rid of our TV (by choice) and I watch movies on my computer (can't complain with this Dell 2408WFP). Audio here comes thru 2 little JBL E-20s hooked up to a SonicImpact Class T Amp.

- just moved into a house (renting) while we look for something to buy in the next couple of years, (so room dimensions aren't permanent). Main room is 22' 8" x 14' x 8'. It opens into a sun room and also the kitchen. I've read here these room dimensions are important too-why? I'm not watching from there, and only listening in there as a matter of passing through.

- don't need/want to shake the foundations. I like subtlety and nuance more than I like overbearing FX.

- have a finite budget, like most. $300 would be nice. $400 would be absolute tops. Will still save towards a better one, I know, but these little side budgets often get derailed by things like travel and kids. :)

- if DIY route, could I use my old Velo cabinet? Guess it limits me to a 10" driver?

- are the $200-400 DIY kits comparable to the equivalently priced factory made units?

- not scared to work with my hands, but I'm limited by lack of tools and space. The garage is FULL :confused: of stuff from the move for the forseeable future. Holy crap we have a lot of crap!

That's about it. Long enough for y'all?

I appreciate any input from the sages here.

Cheers!
Padraic
 
Chopin_Guy

Chopin_Guy

Senior Audioholic
Padraic,

Welcome to the forum!! $400 is a fairly limited budget and that is even the top end of your budget....however, you get more sub in the DIY route for $400 than you can even from an ID company. That being said, you can sometimes find a good deal, that might be in the $400 range, on one of the SVS PB-NSD series on their b-stock page.

Now in the DIY route, you will be able to get even more performance--I think for $400 you can scrape together a pre-built cabinet from parts-express, plate amp, and a driver for around $400. All you would have to do is cut the holes and mount the equipment which is reasonably easy to do. This will provide you with the greatest performance for your $$$....
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I would guess that there is a problem with the amplifier in the subwoofer, as they tend to fail more frequently than the actual speakers do. A light coming on is no proof that the amplifier is actually amplifying anything.

With the old subwoofer, if you are a little bit "handy", you can remove the plate amplifier (after unplugging it, of course) and hook up a normal speaker wire from either the right or left channel of your receiver to the actual woofer (of course, disconnect the wire going to the plate amplifier first). With the volume turned low*, turn on the receiver and see if the woofer plays. If it does not play, then you have a problem with the woofer (you still may or may not have a problem with the amp). If it plays, then you have a problem with the plate amplifier. That could either be repaired by a technician, or you could buy a new plate amplifier. If you buy a new plate amplifier, however, you would want to make sure it can be made to fit over the hole you already have, and will be otherwise compatible with your woofer. Some subwoofers have circuitry built into the amplifier to compensate for some frequency response irregularities, and if so, you will need that same compensation in the amplifier you put into it for it to sound right, which probably means that you would want to buy a replacement from Velodyne designed for it (or just have the plate amp fixed).

If it turns out that both the woofer and the amplifier are shot, then you might be able to find a woofer and plate amplifier that will work in that cabinet, but you will need to research things carefully to be sure that the exact woofer you select will work well in that sized cabinet, keeping in mind whether there is a port or not and if so its size.

________________
*The volume needs to be turned low because you now have the plate amplifier off, so the woofer will move back and forth more freely. Also, you will not want to damage your receiver, if the woofer is a low impedance (check the ratings, and proceed with extreme caution if you are violating what is supposed to be hooked up to the receiver; in fact, with this being online, officially, I will recommend that you don't hook it up if the subwoofer is a lower impedance than the receiver manufacturer recommends using as speakers, though if you kept the volume low and only listened briefly, you would probably be okay anyway).
 
P

padraic

Enthusiast
I would guess that there is a problem with the amplifier in the subwoofer, as they tend to fail more frequently than the actual speakers do. A light coming on is no proof that the amplifier is actually amplifying anything.

With the old subwoofer, if you are a little bit "handy", you can remove the plate amplifier (after unplugging it, of course) and hook up a normal speaker wire from either the right or left channel of your receiver to the actual woofer (of course, disconnect the wire going to the plate amplifier first). With the volume turned low*, turn on the receiver and see if the woofer plays. If it does not play, then you have a problem with the woofer (you still may or may not have a problem with the amp). If it plays, then you have a problem with the plate amplifier. That could either be repaired by a technician, or you could buy a new plate amplifier. If you buy a new plate amplifier, however, you would want to make sure it can be made to fit over the hole you already have, and will be otherwise compatible with your woofer. Some subwoofers have circuitry built into the amplifier to compensate for some frequency response irregularities, and if so, you will need that same compensation in the amplifier you put into it for it to sound right, which probably means that you would want to buy a replacement from Velodyne designed for it (or just have the plate amp fixed).

If it turns out that both the woofer and the amplifier are shot, then you might be able to find a woofer and plate amplifier that will work in that cabinet, but you will need to research things carefully to be sure that the exact woofer you select will work well in that sized cabinet, keeping in mind whether there is a port or not and if so its size.

________________
*The volume needs to be turned low because you now have the plate amplifier off, so the woofer will move back and forth more freely. Also, you will not want to damage your receiver, if the woofer is a low impedance (check the ratings, and proceed with extreme caution if you are violating what is supposed to be hooked up to the receiver; in fact, with this being online, officially, I will recommend that you don't hook it up if the subwoofer is a lower impedance than the receiver manufacturer recommends using as speakers, though if you kept the volume low and only listened briefly, you would probably be okay anyway).
Thanks for the reply guys, much appreciated!

Pyrrho: I will do as you suggest to check the status of the Velo first, just to see what component of the sub may be shot. I'm running the Yamaha RX V650 which has an impedance switch so I'll disconnect my other speakers to do that simple hookup check. Are there also fuses in the sub that may be the issue? If so, uh, how would I know it's shot?

So any 10" driver and amp won't necessarily fit that cabinet I guess. It's 17" x 14" x 17.5". forward firing, ported. Port is at the front, along the bottom. approx 13.5" x 1". I notice that the amp plate (?-where everything connects to the cabinet) is quite large.

Chopin Guy- Thanks for the welcoming note! Been lurking here on and off for a couple of years and alsways found the passion for all things audio to be quite refreshing, cuz in the end, it's all about the music (or film, whichever medium you choose). I agree, btw, $400 is a very limited budget. Budgets suck! But I'm just getting impatient for that dynamic mix again and I know with springs and summer travel plans I'll eventually dip into any savings I manage for the sub between now and then. Tho i suppose I could get parts now and just build/add to it as time passes but that'd be a meditation in patience!

Thanks again for the responses guys, I'll certainly give each and all their due consideration.

Padraic
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for the reply guys, much appreciated!

Pyrrho: I will do as you suggest to check the status of the Velo first, just to see what component of the sub may be shot. I'm running the Yamaha RX V650 which has an impedance switch so I'll disconnect my other speakers to do that simple hookup check. Are there also fuses in the sub that may be the issue? If so, uh, how would I know it's shot?

So any 10" driver and amp won't necessarily fit that cabinet I guess. It's 17" x 14" x 17.5". forward firing, ported. Port is at the front, along the bottom. approx 13.5" x 1". I notice that the amp plate (?-where everything connects to the cabinet) is quite large.

Chopin Guy- Thanks for the welcoming note! Been lurking here on and off for a couple of years and alsways found the passion for all things audio to be quite refreshing, cuz in the end, it's all about the music (or film, whichever medium you choose). I agree, btw, $400 is a very limited budget. Budgets suck! But I'm just getting impatient for that dynamic mix again and I know with springs and summer travel plans I'll eventually dip into any savings I manage for the sub between now and then. Tho i suppose I could get parts now and just build/add to it as time passes but that'd be a meditation in patience!

Thanks again for the responses guys, I'll certainly give each and all their due consideration.

Padraic
I bet it is the amp, it usually is. Velodyne are known for good service. If the speaker is OK, I would send the amp to Velodyne for repair. Your best value, will be repairing that sub.
 
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padraic

Enthusiast
TLS Guy,

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

Nice gear you have there. :eek: Those reel to reel setups brought back a lot of fond memories of my brother's rig, a long time ago.

Everything looks to be of top quality customization. Sweet!

I'll look into the cost of repairs too. I'm guessing it just goes to an authorized service center somewhere, or maybe they just send out a new amp? If that works out then I can just keep using it while squirreling away for the next one.

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers,
Padraic
 
P

padraic

Enthusiast
Ok, just to review what I did, in case i missed something obvious, and for any neophyte who's undertaking the same process:

- unplugged the sub
- unscrewed the plate amp from the back of the sub
- unplugged the speaker connection from the driver to the plate amp of the sub. A simple 2 colored wire connection (with labels as well) made this obvious
- changed the impedance on my amp from 8 ohms to 4
- connected regular speaker wire from my amp, to the exposed leads of the wire leading to the driver, much the same as hooking up any passive speaker.
- turned on the amp keeping the volume very low, pushed play on the CD player and...

-...heard nothing, nada. Driver didn't budge. Turned it up a ways and still nothing.

So there could be something wrong with the amp theoretically, but it seems as tho there is something definitely wrong with the driver, no?

Did I miss any steps here?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Ok, just to review what I did, in case i missed something obvious, and for any neophyte who's undertaking the same process:

- unplugged the sub
- unscrewed the plate amp from the back of the sub
- unplugged the speaker connection from the driver to the plate amp of the sub. A simple 2 colored wire connection (with labels as well) made this obvious
- changed the impedance on my amp from 8 ohms to 4
- connected regular speaker wire from my amp, to the exposed leads of the wire leading to the driver, much the same as hooking up any passive speaker.
- turned on the amp keeping the volume very low, pushed play on the CD player and...

-...heard nothing, nada. Driver didn't budge. Turned it up a ways and still nothing.

So there could be something wrong with the amp theoretically, but it seems as tho there is something definitely wrong with the driver, no?

Did I miss any steps here?
Sounds like the driver most likely has a blown voice coil. Check the resistance of the voice coil with an ohm meter, and see if it is open circuit. If it is, I'm sure Velodyne will recone your driver for a reasonable charge.

One other trick is to get a 1.5 volt battery, and connect it to the woofer, make and break the circuit and see if the driver cone will move to and fro as you make and break the circuit.
 
P

padraic

Enthusiast
That was a quick response, thanks! I'll do as you suggest, but I have to hit up my buddy for his meter--I'm deprived here. :) I'll also have to google how to check resistance.:eek: Is it just a matter of holding the leads from the meter against a couple of wires? Anyway, I'll figure it out and post my findings.

Oh yeah, I guess that means I'll have to unscrew the driver from the front and pull it out? I see no other access to the driver but the red and black wires that are attached to it-and they come from the back of the amp enclosure, if that makes sense. In other words, the driver is completely enclosed.
 
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Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Ok, just to review what I did, in case i missed something obvious, and for any neophyte who's undertaking the same process:

- unplugged the sub
- unscrewed the plate amp from the back of the sub
- unplugged the speaker connection from the driver to the plate amp of the sub. A simple 2 colored wire connection (with labels as well) made this obvious
- changed the impedance on my amp from 8 ohms to 4
- connected regular speaker wire from my amp, to the exposed leads of the wire leading to the driver, much the same as hooking up any passive speaker.
- turned on the amp keeping the volume very low, pushed play on the CD player and...

-...heard nothing, nada. Driver didn't budge. Turned it up a ways and still nothing.

So there could be something wrong with the amp theoretically, but it seems as tho there is something definitely wrong with the driver, no?

Did I miss any steps here?
Just to be clear: did you get sound from your other speaker(s) connected to the receiver? I don't want this to sound insulting (because we've all done silly things from time to time), but did you have the receiver actually sending a signal to the woofer? If you did as above, without altering the balance control on the receiver, and you got sound from the speaker that was connected to the other channel, then I would say that your woofer is blown.

It is still possible that your subwoofer amplifier isn't working right, and it failing could be the cause of the damage to the woofer. If you have a cheap speaker that you don't mind throwing away if it is destroyed, you can hook it up to the subwoofer amp in place of the subwoofer (obviously with the level turned low when you start it), with everything else hooked up normally, and see if you get sound from it that way. Of course, using a meter to check for DC coming out of the subwoofer amplifier would be better first, because that, if done properly, will not result in anything getting damaged. But since you are unclear on how to even measure resistance, you might be well advised to have your friend with the meter, if he or she knows what he or she is doing, help you with all of this.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
That was a quick response, thanks! I'll do as you suggest, but I have to hit up my buddy for his meter--I'm deprived here. :) I'll also have to google how to check resistance.:eek: Is it just a matter of holding the leads from the meter against a couple of wires? Anyway, I'll figure it out and post my findings.

Oh yeah, I guess that means I'll have to unscrew the driver from the front and pull it out? I see no other access to the driver but the red and black wires that are attached to it-and they come from the back of the amp enclosure, if that makes sense. In other words, the driver is completely enclosed.
You can measure from the wires connected to the woofer. Just make sure the other ends of the wires are really attached to the woofer; if they are not, then that would explain why you are not getting sound from the woofer.
 
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padraic

Enthusiast
No offense taken whatsoever on this end Pyrrho, I'm all ears at this point. I did leave one speaker hooked up to see if the signal was in fact getting thru, and there was sound on my regular speaker but nothing from the sub. I'm going to get my buddy over here with his meter and we'll try from there. He's pretty sharp with this sort of thing. I'd read of the 1.5V battery test also but I'm not sure what i'm supposed to hook up to the battery-the 2 terminals that emanate from the driver? i.e the red & black speaker "leads" that I'd connected the test speaker wire to?
None of this is daunting btw. I'm a tech writer by trade (obviously not electronic component-level stuff) and quite enjoy learning new things.
I don't have a cheap speaker lying around, unfortunately. There are some in the forum who'd disagree with that,:D but I do like my M3 Ti's and the little E20's. I'll see if my buddy has something lying around.
 
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Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
No offense taken whatsoever on this end Pyrrho, I'm all ears at this point. I did leave one speaker hooked up to see if the signal was in fact getting thru, and there was sound on my regular speaker but nothing from the sub. I'm going to get my buddy over here with his meter and we'll try from there. He's pretty sharp with this sort of thing. I'd read of the 1.5V battery test also but I'm not sure what i'm supposed to hook up to the battery-the 2 terminals that emanate from the driver? i.e the red & black speaker "leads" that I'd connected the test speaker wire to?
None of this is daunting btw. I'm a tech writer by trade (obviously not electronic component-level stuff) and quite enjoy learning new things.
I don't have a cheap speaker lying around, unfortunately. There are some in the forum who'd disagree with that,:D but I do like my M3 Ti's and the little E20's. I'll see if my buddy has something lying around.
I don't think that there is any real need for further testing of the woofer, as it should give sound hooking it up to the receiver. The further testing of it, if you wanted to do it anyway, would involve hooking up where the speaker wire normally attaches to the woofer. But no amount of testing is going to repair the woofer and magically make it work again. From what you have said so far, I think we can very safely say that the woofer is burnt out. It could be reconed, or it can be replaced, whichever is less expensive would be best. But before doing that, there is the question of whether or not the amplifier works. And given that the woofer is burnt out, that is a sign that either the amplifier is capable of putting out more power than the woofer can handle, or the amplifier is malfunctioning such that it damaged the woofer. Woofers don't burn themselves up.

As for the subwoofer amplifier, with it hooked up, you would measure it at its output (i.e., where it connects to the woofer). You would want to use "clips", not simply "probes", on the meter, as you will want to attach it and set the meter and then turn the amplifier on. You want to be careful about touching things when the power is on, or you may end up doing something worse than just damaging equipment; there is a reason why these things are referred to qualified technicians instead of having regular people play with them. In other words, carelessness or mistakes can result in injury or death, though most likely, these will not happen if you proceed with some degree of sense and caution. But, of course, I cannot promise you that you will exercise sufficient care, so beware and proceed at your own risk, or just stop now and forget about testing the amplifier yourself.

For testing for DC in the output, you would hook up the meter with it set for reading voltage. Start at the highest voltage setting, and once the amplifier is on, turn it to lower settings until you get a reading. Have no input hooked up to the amplifier. If the amplifier were perfect, you would have 0 volts, but we live in the real world, so it might have something like half a volt. If it is more than that, do not hook up one of your speakers to test it, as that is a sign that the amplifier is sending too much DC to the speaker. I don't know if the above is clear enough; I recommend searching online for more information on this topic, just to be very clear, or simply take the subwoofer to an authorized repair shop. Before doing that, you might want to ask what it will cost to replace both the woofer and the amplifier, as that will give you the maximum that it should cost for getting your subwoofer up and running again, if you choose to do that.

Assuming that there is no significant DC, you could try hooking up one of your speakers to the subwoofer amplifier, but if you made a mistake in your DC test, you could easily destroy the woofer in the speaker you hook up. If you choose to do this anyway, you should get sound when the subwoofer amplifier has an input. Obviously, you would try this with the subwoofer's volume control turned down low, as you don't want to destroy the speaker with excessive power. If you got undistorted bass that way, then it would show that the amplifier is working. It would then cause one to wonder what caused the woofer to burn out, though if you had the level turned way up on the subwoofer just before it failed, it is possible that the amplifier design is such that it can give excessive power to the woofer. Frankly, though, I would be surprised if your amplifier is working properly. My guess is that the amp failed, causing the woofer to be damaged. I freely admit that that is a guess, but as I said before, woofers do not burn themselves out; something does it to them.

It is entirely possible that you will get no output at all from the amplifier, as it is possible that, when it failed, there was a surge of power destroying the woofer, and then complete failure of the amplifier. If that is the case, then hooking something up to it would be perfectly safe, and you would get no sound. But if the amplifier is outputting DC, it will destroy woofers.

I would talk with Velodyne about the cost of replacing both the woofer and the amplifier, to see if that would be a reasonable cost or not.

As far as making a new subwoofer is concerned, you will need to ask someone else about that. You might be able to use the subwoofer cabinet that you already have, but the woofer you select would need to have the appropriate parameters for that size box. Again, you will have to ask someone else about that.

For buying a new subwoofer already made, I don't have any advice in your price range; you would need to ask someone else. But if you could go just a bit higher, you could buy:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

That, with shipping, will probably come in just under $500, depending on where you are. It gets glowing reviews, both professional and from individuals, for a subwoofer at its price point. Note its size before ordering, as some people are surprised by how big SVS subwoofers are.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I don't think that there is any real need for further testing of the woofer, as it should give sound hooking it up to the receiver. The further testing of it, if you wanted to do it anyway, would involve hooking up where the speaker wire normally attaches to the woofer. But no amount of testing is going to repair the woofer and magically make it work again. From what you have said so far, I think we can very safely say that the woofer is burnt out. It could be reconed, or it can be replaced, whichever is less expensive would be best. But before doing that, there is the question of whether or not the amplifier works. And given that the woofer is burnt out, that is a sign that either the amplifier is capable of putting out more power than the woofer can handle, or the amplifier is malfunctioning such that it damaged the woofer. Woofers don't burn themselves up.

As for the subwoofer amplifier, with it hooked up, you would measure it at its output (i.e., where it connects to the woofer). You would want to use "clips", not simply "probes", on the meter, as you will want to attach it and set the meter and then turn the amplifier on. You want to be careful about touching things when the power is on, or you may end up doing something worse than just damaging equipment; there is a reason why these things are referred to qualified technicians instead of having regular people play with them. In other words, carelessness or mistakes can result in injury or death, though most likely, these will not happen if you proceed with some degree of sense and caution. But, of course, I cannot promise you that you will exercise sufficient care, so beware and proceed at your own risk, or just stop now and forget about testing the amplifier yourself.

For testing for DC in the output, you would hook up the meter with it set for reading voltage. Start at the highest voltage setting, and once the amplifier is on, turn it to lower settings until you get a reading. Have no input hooked up to the amplifier. If the amplifier were perfect, you would have 0 volts, but we live in the real world, so it might have something like half a volt. If it is more than that, do not hook up one of your speakers to test it, as that is a sign that the amplifier is sending too much DC to the speaker. I don't know if the above is clear enough; I recommend searching online for more information on this topic, just to be very clear, or simply take the subwoofer to an authorized repair shop. Before doing that, you might want to ask what it will cost to replace both the woofer and the amplifier, as that will give you the maximum that it should cost for getting your subwoofer up and running again, if you choose to do that.

Assuming that there is no significant DC, you could try hooking up one of your speakers to the subwoofer amplifier, but if you made a mistake in your DC test, you could easily destroy the woofer in the speaker you hook up. If you choose to do this anyway, you should get sound when the subwoofer amplifier has an input. Obviously, you would try this with the subwoofer's volume control turned down low, as you don't want to destroy the speaker with excessive power. If you got undistorted bass that way, then it would show that the amplifier is working. It would then cause one to wonder what caused the woofer to burn out, though if you had the level turned way up on the subwoofer just before it failed, it is possible that the amplifier design is such that it can give excessive power to the woofer. Frankly, though, I would be surprised if your amplifier is working properly. My guess is that the amp failed, causing the woofer to be damaged. I freely admit that that is a guess, but as I said before, woofers do not burn themselves out; something does it to them.

It is entirely possible that you will get no output at all from the amplifier, as it is possible that, when it failed, there was a surge of power destroying the woofer, and then complete failure of the amplifier. If that is the case, then hooking something up to it would be perfectly safe, and you would get no sound. But if the amplifier is outputting DC, it will destroy woofers.

I would talk with Velodyne about the cost of replacing both the woofer and the amplifier, to see if that would be a reasonable cost or not.

As far as making a new subwoofer is concerned, you will need to ask someone else about that. You might be able to use the subwoofer cabinet that you already have, but the woofer you select would need to have the appropriate parameters for that size box. Again, you will have to ask someone else about that.

For buying a new subwoofer already made, I don't have any advice in your price range; you would need to ask someone else. But if you could go just a bit higher, you could buy:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

That, with shipping, will probably come in just under $500, depending on where you are. It gets glowing reviews, both professional and from individuals, for a subwoofer at its price point. Note its size before ordering, as some people are surprised by how big SVS subwoofers are.
I doubt the amp has DC offset. Velodyne are a good company, and the amp likely has DC offset protection. Anyhow, if an amp produces enough DC offset to blow the woofer, a fuse always blows in my experience. He does not seem to have blown any fuses.

If the amp did fail with shorted output devices, there will be about 30 to 40 volts DC on the amp output to the speaker.

He can easily sort this out. I would still check DC resistance and do the battery check. Connect the battery to the respective speaker terminals. Check DC resistance putting one probe to each speaker terminal.
 
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padraic

Enthusiast
To clarify (and rectify, in some cases) my own "labelling" process I think things will be very clear if I refer to my amp as the Yamaha, and the sub and its amp as the Velo(dyne). Your advice seems pretty clear but this will eliminate any doubt. So for example when you say

"As for the subwoofer amplifier, with it hooked up..."​
I am assuming you mean hooked up to the Yamaha, and plugged in.

...you would measure it at its output (i.e., where it connects to the woofer). You would want to use "clips", not simply "probes", on the meter, as you will want to attach it and set the meter and then turn the amplifier on.​

.
..In other words, carelessness or mistakes can result in injury or death, though most likely, these will not happen if you proceed with some degree of sense and caution. But, of course, I cannot promise you that you will exercise sufficient care, so beware and proceed at your own risk, or just stop now and forget about testing the amplifier yourself.​

Right, I've come to that conclusion too. If I don't feel comfortable proceeding then I stop. I"ve got kids and a very active lifestyle that I'd like to maintain. That said, I feel like I'm getting the kind of feedback I was hoping for so I'll take it slowly, augmenting with other sources here and online.


For testing for DC in the output, you would hook up the meter with it set for reading voltage. Start at the highest voltage setting, and once the amplifier is on, turn it to lower settings until you get a reading. Have no input hooked up to the amplifier.​

Now in the above paragraph, does the sub need to be connected to the Yamaha, or just plugged in and turned on after the meter is hooked up?


If the amplifier were perfect, you would have 0 volts, but we live in the real world, so it might have something like half a volt. If it is more than that, do not hook up one of your speakers to test it, as that is a sign that the amplifier is sending too much DC to the speaker. I don't know if the above is clear enough; I recommend searching online for more information on this topic, just to be very clear, or simply take the subwoofer to an authorized repair shop. Before doing that, you might want to ask what it will cost to replace both the woofer and the amplifier, as that will give you the maximum that it should cost for getting your subwoofer up and running again, if you choose to do that.

"Assuming that there is no significant DC, you could try hooking up one of your speakers to the subwoofer amplifier"​
I assume this is the same thing as a speaker-level hookup that many subs are capable of? In which case I'd still need to hook up to the Yamaha simply to access an output-DVD or cassette player for instance. True?

but if you made a mistake in your DC test, you could easily destroy the woofer in the speaker you hook up. If you choose to do this anyway, you should get sound when the subwoofer amplifier has an input. Obviously, you would try this with the subwoofer's volume control turned down low, as you don't want to destroy the speaker with excessive power. If you got undistorted bass that way, then it would show that the amplifier is working. It would then cause one to wonder what caused the woofer to burn out, though if you had the level turned way up on the subwoofer just before it failed, it is possible that the amplifier design is such that it can give excessive power to the woofer. Frankly, though, I would be surprised if your amplifier is working properly. My guess is that the amp failed, causing the woofer to be damaged. I freely admit that that is a guess, but as I said before, woofers do not burn themselves out; something does it to them.

It is entirely possible that you will get no output at all from the amplifier, as it is possible that, when it failed, there was a surge of power destroying the woofer, and then complete failure of the amplifier. If that is the case, then hooking something up to it would be perfectly safe, and you would get no sound. But if the amplifier is outputting DC, it will destroy woofers.

I would talk with Velodyne about the cost of replacing both the woofer and the amplifier, to see if that would be a reasonable cost or not.
Yes, I'm going to email them tonight or tomrrow.

As far as making a new subwoofer is concerned, you will need to ask someone else about that. You might be able to use the subwoofer cabinet that you already have, but the woofer you select would need to have the appropriate parameters for that size box. Again, you will have to ask someone else about that.​

Good thing I started investigating these forums-I would have assumed any 10" driver would work fine.

For buying a new subwoofer already made, I don't have any advice in your price range; you would need to ask someone else. But if you could go just a bit higher, you could buy:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

Thanks for that. I've been keeping my eyes on the B-stock page and also on some classified pages (Audiogon, AVS). Who knows tho, maybe I can wait it out and get a solid sub for the 5 or 600 the entry level good subs seem to cost, not inlcuding the DIYs. I'm curious how the DIY kits sold at PartsExpress stack up against similarly-priced factory subs.


Thanks Pyrrho.​
 
P

padraic

Enthusiast
I doubt the amp has DC offset. Velodyne are a good company, and the amp likely has DC offset protection. Anyhow, if an amp produces enough DC offset to blow the woofer, a fuse always blows in my experience. He does not seem to have blown any fuses.

If the amp did fail with shorted output devices, there will be about 30 to 40 volts DC on the amp output to the speaker.

He can easily sort this out. I would still check DC resistance and do the battery check. Connect the battery to the respective speaker terminals. Check DC resistance putting one probe to each speaker terminal.
Going to do that as soon as my friend gets the meters to me (he works with my wife so he'll pass them on to her). Baterries are another matter. I was tripping over them in my apartment but you think I can find one now that I need it? Sheesh. Moving can be such a pain.

I refer to the meters in the plural as my friend wasn't sure if one was working properly. I'm not gonna hook up a bunch of them to as many wires as I see sticking out. :D
 
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WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
On the subject of building a new DIY subwoofer vs. commercial products....

To be frank, I don't think DIY is worth it for $400. I doubt you will do much better than the SVS entry level product, for example. If you increase your budget to about $530, now, you can produce an extraordinary quality DIY subwoofer that will substantially outperform almost every commercial product costing 3x-4x as much. The item in mind is the Infinity Kappa Perfect 12VQ slot port design as outlined by avaserfi in the stickied post in the DIY forum. You can work in the $530 budget by using the O Audio 500 Watt BASH amplifier - and the budget includes the cabinet materials and finish. There is a threshold that allows you to get specific products to get very high performance; but $400 just will not cut it unless you find the parts used instead of new, with a good discount.

-Chris
 
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padraic

Enthusiast
Hi Chris,
Odd (to me) that one would get such exponential benefits at that price threshold but almost none below. Are the components below this threshold of that much lower build quality than their factory counterparts, or is it simply a matter of no real gains to be made but they'll sound about the same?

I've followed a few build threads of the sub you mention, and it does look very enticing. Judging by the feedback it gets, it sounds even better. Has anyone had this sub for a long time? I"d be curious about the long-term feedback too.

So I saw the driver listed for about $175, and the amp for about $245 shipped. Does this sound about right for new items?
(http://www.parts-express.com//pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-752 same one you mentioned?)

Thanks for weighing in.
Padraic
 
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padraic

Enthusiast
Ok, so the battery test (1.5V or "D" battery) yielded no movement whatsoever of the woofer.

Checked resistance (with no unwanted electroshock therapy) with two different meters and got a range, from the highest reading of .38V to the lowest of about .14. It seemed to be jumping around for awhile there. I got those readings on the meter after starting at the highest setting of 1000 and seeing nothing, and dialing down to 20. Both meters were within the ranges posted.

As you guys surmised, it seems that the driver is definitely shot, but I'm not sure about the amp. As you mentioned Pyrrho, it doesn't seem logical that the driver would burn itself out. What other possibilities exist other than the amp?

Padraic
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Ok, so the battery test (1.5V or "D" battery) yielded no movement whatsoever of the woofer.

Checked resistance (with no unwanted electroshock therapy) with two different meters and got a range, from the highest reading of .38V to the lowest of about .14. It seemed to be jumping around for awhile there. I got those readings on the meter after starting at the highest setting of 1000 and seeing nothing, and dialing down to 20. Both meters were within the ranges posted.

As you guys surmised, it seems that the driver is definitely shot, but I'm not sure about the amp. As you mentioned Pyrrho, it doesn't seem logical that the driver would burn itself out. What other possibilities exist other than the amp?

Padraic
Sometimes drivers do fail. May be there has been a slight flaw in the winding all along, and now it has gone open circuit. There is a lot of heat in a driver coil. That amp you have is 100 watts. If you push it that makes a lot of heat in a confined space. Think how hot a 100 watt light bulb gets.

I think you amp is fine. I would have the driver reconed. I suspect Velodyne will do it for a reasonable charge, like $90 or so.

If you are itchy for a new sub, buy or build a new one.
 

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