Disappointed with new EMP EF50T

[Gern Blanston]

I just got my new EF50Ts hooked up, and I can't be more disappointed. I've only hooked up the towers so far, and I know that they need the sub (I haven't hooked it up yet), but I'm comparing these to 3 different speakers that I've tried so far in a 2 channel hookup: a Yamaha YSP 900 sound bar, Magnepan MMP, and Mirage Omnisat V2 floorstanders all in the same room with the same equipment. None of those had a sub attached (and they all need a sub, too), and they all sounded substantially better than the EMPs: much better highs and midrange with far greater detail. Honestly, the EMPs don't sound noticeably better than my TVs built in speakers. I feel like I'm straining to hear details that the Mirage's provided so clearly. I keep getting the feeling that my ears are clogged. Even the Yamaha sound bar was more satisfying than the EMPs. I know that the EMPs aren't meant to be stand alone towers, but neither are the other 3 options that I've tried.

I'm reluctant to hook up the sub because I can't see how it will help except for the lack of bass. Sending these back is probably is probably going to cost $150 plus in shipping (I got the 5.1 system because it was cheaper than getting the towers and a sub by themselves) along with a restocking fee (a very expensive "in home audition"). Arggh. I'll probably go back to the Mirage's (without a sub, since the return shipping and restocking fee have put that option out of reach for now). I'll just chalk it up to a lesson learned.

Maybe others will have a different experience, but if you're thinking of this system, I'd recommend thinking again. What a buzz kill.

 

[Adam]

Sorry to hear about your experience. It's never fun to get something new and then be disappointed with it.

Are your electronics capable of doing any equalization on the speakers (perhaps even an auto eq set-up)? If so, maybe that would help. My Pioneer's auto eq was able to make my NHTs sound much more to my liking, versus the overly bright sound that they had before I ran the eq.

Thanks for sharing your opinion on those.

Adam

 

[Davemcc]

That is dissappointing and the return fees are just a big ol' kick in the softies. It's surprising since this system fared will in AH's Pro-Review.. There are a couple of lines in this review that could have foreshadowed your dissappointment, notably "While the sub evened things out a bit, I still felt like the EF50T's lost some information around the crossover point (100Hz)" and "There were times that I knew I was supposed to be hearing some notes off the very top end of a piano that were just not there." Despite the overall favorable review, the text of the review tells you that there are no highs and no lows in these speakers. Having said that, the review also notes that you should have a decent receiver or separate amp. What receiver are you using?

It's too bad it took such an expensive lesson to find out that you don't like the speakers. Maybe you can work some arrangement to mitigate your losses.

 

[gene]

I just got my new EF50Ts hooked up, and I can't be more disappointed. I've only hooked up the towers so far, and I know that they need the sub (I haven't hooked it up yet), but I'm comparing these to 3 different speakers that I've tried so far in a 2 channel hookup: a Yamaha YSP 900 sound bar, Magnepan MMP, and Mirage Omnisat V2 floorstanders all in the same room with the same equipment. None of those had a sub attached (and they all need a sub, too), and they all sounded substantially better than the EMPs: much better highs and midrange with far greater detail. Honestly, the EMPs don't sound noticeably better than my TVs built in speakers. I feel like I'm straining to hear details that the Mirage's provided so clearly. I keep getting the feeling that my ears are clogged. Even the Yamaha sound bar was more satisfying than the EMPs. I know that the EMPs aren't meant to be stand alone towers, but neither are the other 3 options that I've tried.

I'm reluctant to hook up the sub because I can't see how it will help except for the lack of bass. Sending these back is probably is probably going to cost $150 plus in shipping (I got the 5.1 system because it was cheaper than getting the towers and a sub by themselves) along with a restocking fee (a very expensive "in home audition"). Arggh. I'll probably go back to the Mirage's (without a sub, since the return shipping and restocking fee have put that option out of reach for now). I'll just chalk it up to a lesson learned.

Maybe others will have a different experience, but if you're thinking of this system, I'd recommend thinking again. What a buzz kill.

Try a few things before throwing in the towel:

• 
  Did you check phase on the front speakers? Make sure the polarity is the same on both speakers regarding their connections to the amp. Then try reversing the phase on one speaker to see if the sound gets better (more focused) or worse (more dispersed)

• definitely hook up the sub and retry. these speakers -3dB are around 100Hz so adding a sub will significantly improve their overall sound quality and you would be surprised at how it even improves the midrange as well

• make sure all of your tone controls are flat and auto EQ is turned off (if any)

• make sure all of the drivers are working in each speaker. It's possible you have a broken tweeter or bad xover connection to the tweeter

 

[Matt34]

Also make sure when your comparing the three that you level match them with an SPL meter.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I I feel like I'm straining to hear details that the Mirage's provided so clearly. I keep getting the feeling that my ears are clogged.

How loud are you listening. The feeling of your ears being clogged is the first sign to turn down the volume because the levels you are listeing at are damaging your ears.

 

[bandphan]

what receiver are you using and what settings have been applied?

 

[fredk]

Gern. I'm sorry to hear that your purchase was so dissapointing. I know how keyed up I am about the speakers I have coming.

Dave. You make a very good point about the review. A lot of reviews use this sort of neutral language when describing a products shorcomings. Not everyone notices that.

Fred

 

[Gern Blanston]

Thanks for all of your suggestions. I checked the polarity, and I had it set up correctly. I tried switching it, and it made it worse (of course). I'll hook up the sub, too (although I was hoping that if I didn't open the box that I might get a break on the restocking fee). All of the drivers seem to be working, too. My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V2092 (ten years old, yes, but still respectable with plenty of power, and it's the one that I had hooked up to the other speakers that I mentioned which sounded significantly better).

Dave, I read Tom's review many times before my purchase, and I focused on the comments that you mention. I guess that I'm not as knowledgable as I'd like to think, but I interpreted Tom's comments to mean that the highs, while not as good as he'd like in this price range, are still quite good. If Tom had meant that these speakers had "no highs", I would find it hard to imagine that anyone would buy speakers that had "no highs". Indeed though, it does sound like the EF50s are built without tweeters. I did understand him to mean that the EF50s have no lows and would need the sub, so I expected this.

To the comment about my ears sounding clogged: I listen at very moderate, even soft volumes. My volume knob is rarely above 1/4 turn from zero.

I completely understand that different people have different listening preferences such as "hotter" verses "more laid back", or B&W vs Paradigm. To me, the difference between my previous trials and the EMPs are like the difference between DefTech Mythos ST's and a Bose Acoustic Wave Radio (I'm exaggerating, but you get my point). It's night and day.

For fun, I hooked up my 7 year old B&W DM303s that I use as surrounds in my home theater (my home theater has all B&W: these new EMPs are in my den/kitchen/family room) and placed them on cheap Walmart barstools for stands, and they sound much better than the EMPs. Next I'm going to try my 1978 Infinity Qb's and see how they compare.

Thanks for all of the help and commiseration as well. I'll keep listening and see if the sub and a short break in period helps.

I should add that I didn't go with a more full range tower because my wife has strict decor objectives. I'd love big, full range towers, but she won't go for that.

 

[TheFactor]

Wow sorry to hear of your bad experience, cant say that you didnt try to make them work i'll give you that. I say send them back and chalk it up to experience. Have you considered some polks I beleive they have some decent middle of the road speakers that have great highs and theres places you can listen to them before you buy. Before I bought my Paradigms I had some polk RT600I's for about six years that really had a good balance for movies or music with great highs. As matter of fact they'll be going in my bedroom or computer room once I get around to it. But wright now im concentrating on my main HT system. Good luck with your next speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Also make sure when your comparing the three that you level match them with an SPL meter.

Yes, and preferably with test tones, not music that changes too rapidly.

 

[Audioholics]

Quick question - are you comparing all these speakers at the same time in the same room?

 

[Gern Blanston]

I've level matched them all with DV Essentials as best I could with a Radio Shack SPL meter. I was able to compare the Mirages with the EMPs before I returned the Mirages. I've also compared them with my bookshelf B&Ws. The room, equipment, and settings stayed the same. I have the mains set to Large, phantom Center, all bass going to the towers. I've also tried the various other settings on the EMPs (mains to Small, Center Normal, Bass to sub even with no sub attached, etc, just to see if there was an improvement).

Last night I was watching a variety of HD material on Directv, and I noticed that certain male voices had a buzzy or fizzy sound (sorry, that's the best way that I can describe it). I know that this is Directv, but again, the other speakers didn't do this on Directv material.

The main thing that I've noticed when switching from one of the other speakers to the EMPs is that the sound seems muddy or muffled. I find myself asking, "where did the instruments go?". I feel like I'm straining to hear, for example, an acoustic guitar or drum sticks rat-a-tatting on a cymbal that I heard clearly and easily before.

The joy of new speakers has always been hearing a level of clarity and detail that I didn't know existed. I feel like I've gone in the reverse direction with the EMPs.

 

[fredk]

Have you tried listening up close to each speaker individually to see if there is something wrong with one of them?

 

[gene]

Last night I was watching a variety of HD material on Directv, and I noticed that certain male voices had a buzzy or fizzy sound (sorry, that's the best way that I can describe it). I know that this is Directv, but again, the other speakers didn't do this on Directv material

There is something physically wrong with your speakers. They should not sound muffled or be buzzing. It seems either a driver is bad or the xover network is fried. Try a pair of the bookshelfs and see how they sound. When everyone is back in the office tomorrow they can work on replacing your defective set with a new pair.

 

[Gern Blanston]

Ok, thanks Gene. I really respect Tom's and Audioholics' reviews (especially AVrant), so I was coming to think that maybe there was just something physically wrong with this pair, or that my room just didn't like them.

I have a quick question regarding one of the other comments from Dave. He states that I should have known, from Tom's review, that the EMP's have "no highs". Do you think that's correct? Is that what Tom was saying in his review? I don't think so because I can't imagine that anyone would buy tower speakers that had "no highs" or very poor highs. After all, we can buy subs to add bass, but, to my knowledge, we can't buy external tweeters to add a missing high end.

 

[jamie2112]

Well you can buy a variety of Tweeters and external horns such as the Onix super tweeters....

 

[gene]

I have a quick question regarding one of the other comments from Dave. He states that I should have known, from Tom's review, that the EMP's have "no highs". Do you think that's correct? Is that what Tom was saying in his review? I don't think so because I can't imagine that anyone would buy tower speakers that had "no highs" or very poor highs. After all, we can buy subs to add bass, but, to my knowledge, we can't buy external tweeters to add a missing high end.

Tom never stated the EF50s had "no highs" and I think people are trying to hard to interpret any "Hidden" meaning to his review. If these speakers had no highs, they'd be a subwoofer and a pretty lousy one at that.

Please try the bookshelf speakers and see how they sound. If they sound significantly better than the towers, then you obviously have a defective pair of towers that need to be swapped out.

 

[Davemcc]

"There were times that I knew I was supposed to be hearing some notes off the very top end of a piano that were just not there."

I'm not trying to interpret any hidden meaning in Tom's review, but I do think that a speaker should be able to reproduce all the notes of a piano. Tom states very clearly that these speakers didn't do that. It is not hidden at all. It's right there is plain english. I don't know how else to characterize a speaker that cannot reproduce the full frequency range of a piano, except to suggest that it has no highs.

Where are Tom's missing piano notes and how should we characterize a speaker that can't reproduce them? Seriously.

 

[gene]

"There were times that I knew I was supposed to be hearing some notes off the very top end of a piano that were just not there."

I'm not trying to interpret any hidden meaning in Tom's review, but I do think that a speaker should be able to reproduce all the notes of a piano. Tom states very clearly that these speakers didn't do that. It is not hidden at all. It's right there is plain english. I don't know how else to characterize a speaker that cannot reproduce the full frequency range of a piano, except to suggest that it has no highs.

Where are Tom's missing piano notes and how should we characterize a speaker that can't reproduce them? Seriously.

Virtually all speakers can "reproduce" all the notes of a piano but very FEW speakers can accurately reproduce complex harmonic overtones of a piano regardless of price and certainly NONE that I have heard in the price range that the EMPs are selling at.