So, I decided to listen to this Jazz CD.....

Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well, recently, I decided to try to pick up some well recorded music, and I think I made a good choice on this one. The name of the CD is SuperBass. It's part of the Telarc "Discovery Jazz" collection and is a 20-bit recording. I was very pleased with the SQ on this one. The separation of the instruments was excellent. I could hear the instruments coming from different places, very much like it would be when hearing music played live. The details of the bass notes are superb. You can hear the fine details, the plucking of the instrument and the reverbs, revealing the unique detail of each instrument and each players unique play style. Ray Bown, John Clayton, Jr., and Christian McBride are just plain awesome with the bass! :eek: They seemed to just feed off each other during this recording. Even if you aren't into Jazz, I believe you can appreciate the technical quality, especially during the "Age of Dynamic Compression", which is, unfortunately, the world we live in today. If you are a lover of good quality music, I believe it is your civil duty to support companies that are still putting out well recorded material (even though this particular recording is 11 yrs old). Maybe then the major labels will start rethinking their recording techniques. OK, I'm about done. Has anyone else heard this recording? Feel free to comment. :)

 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for the review! You have my interest peaked, as I would like to check out my PC-Ultra's musical capabilities. Just ordered it from Amazon and will have it on Wednesday. I'll try to remember to follow up with my impressions.
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Thanks for the review! You have my interest peaked, as I would like to check out my PC-Ultra's musical capabilities. Just ordered it from Amazon and will have it on Wednesday. I'll try to remember to follow up with my impressions.
I'm sure your Ultra will do awesomely! I actually did my listening with no sub at all. I'm not sure how low the frequencies are on this album, but it sounded excellent on my system! Let me know what you think when you get it. :)
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
... If you are a lover of good quality music, I believe it is your civil duty to support companies that are still putting out well recorded material (even though this particular recording is 11 yrs old). Maybe then the major labels will start rethinking their recording techniques. ...
11 years ago is not exactly the stone age for audio recording, and a high fidelity recording of that time should be indistinguishable from one made today.

As for other labels, many have good sound quality for jazz and classical recordings, and have for many years. Even things as old as the 1950's can sound pretty good. But I think there is little chance for a change for the better for pop music, as the dynamic compression has to do with radio playback and use as background music.

For an interesting example of people complaining about music that isn't horribly compressed, read the reviews of:

http://www.amazon.com/Orff-Carmina-Burana-Jonathan-Summers/dp/B00001ZSXC/

There you will see the reactions of people who do not want a dynamic piece of music recorded with its full dynamic range. It is an excellent performance, with good fidelity for being an analog recording of its era. I highly recommend it, but not for those who only like background music.

It should be played back such that the low volume sections are so low that one barely hears them, and that the loud sections are close to as loud as one can stand. If one goes to hear a live symphony orchestra, this kind of extreme dynamic range is not overly uncommon. But most people live their lives listening to only compressed crap, so they often hate anything else.

Oh, and don't try playing it back in your car, unless you have the world's quietest car. You should expect to simply sit down and listen to it, in an otherwise quiet room.
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
11 years ago is not exactly the stone age for audio recording, and a high fidelity recording of that time should be indistinguishable from one made today.

As for other labels, many have good sound quality for jazz and classical recordings, and have for many years. Even things as old as the 1950's can sound pretty good. But I think there is little chance for a change for the better for pop music, as the dynamic compression has to do with radio playback and use as background music.

For an interesting example of people complaining about music that isn't horribly compressed, read the reviews of:

http://www.amazon.com/Orff-Carmina-Burana-Jonathan-Summers/dp/B00001ZSXC/

There you will see the reactions of people who do not want a dynamic piece of music recorded with its full dynamic range. It is an excellent performance, with good fidelity for being an analog recording of its era. I highly recommend it, but not for those who only like background music.

It should be played back such that the low volume sections are so low that one barely hears them, and that the loud sections are close to as loud as one can stand. If one goes to hear a live symphony orchestra, this kind of extreme dynamic range is not overly uncommon. But most people live their lives listening to only compressed crap, so they often hate anything else.

Oh, and don't try playing it back in your car, unless you have the world's quietest car. You should expect to simply sit down and listen to it, in an otherwise quiet room.
Excellent point! I hope I wasn't misunderstood. I didn't mean that 11 years is terribly old. I understand that not much has probably changed as far as recording techniques go. My point was to support record labels that are continuing to make good quality recordings. But at the same time, I didn't want anyone to misunderstand me and think that the CD I posted about was a brand new album, because it isn't.
It's a shame that pop music has gone down the road it has. I still question if it can be changed though. What about artists like Pink Floyd and Dave Matthews? Just a couple of examples that still have some very well recorded material. Also, I have a James Taylor CD and some of the recordings on it are from the 70's and it still sounds pretty good. I just don't understand why there can't be a standard in music recordings!? If it needs to be compressed for the radio, personal use, and what not...well, isn't that what MP3's (or other compressed file types) are for????? :confused:
 
D

deedubb

Full Audioholic
I know I have one or two Telarc CD's in my collection but haven't played them in years. If you want something else to test out your system, check out the various CD's from Sheffield Lab.
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
I know I have one or two Telarc CD's in my collection but haven't played them in years. If you want something else to test out your system, check out the various CD's from Sheffield Lab.
Thanks! I'll check it out. :)
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Excellent point! I hope I wasn't misunderstood. I didn't mean that 11 years is terribly old. I understand that not much has probably changed as far as recording techniques go. My point was to support record labels that are continuing to make good quality recordings. But at the same time, I didn't want anyone to misunderstand me and think that the CD I posted about was a brand new album, because it isn't.
It's a shame that pop music has gone down the road it has. I still question if it can be changed though. What about artists like Pink Floyd and Dave Matthews? Just a couple of examples that still have some very well recorded material. Also, I have a James Taylor CD and some of the recordings on it are from the 70's and it still sounds pretty good. I just don't understand why there can't be a standard in music recordings!? If it needs to be compressed for the radio, personal use, and what not...well, isn't that what MP3's (or other compressed file types) are for????? :confused:
There cannot be a standard for how music is produced because that would interfere with creativity. People can do what they want, so they do. And that means that they are free to make great music, or crap, or anything in between. They can process and alter the sound any way they want. Sometimes, this results in something like Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, and sometimes it results in, well, provide your own example of crap.

As for the word "compression", you are confusing two different things: The compression of the dynamic range of a recording, which is changing the volume levels of the loud and the soft portions of the music to make them less different, and data compression for digital recordings (e.g., mp3s, etc.), which is a completely different matter, which is done in order to save space on the recording medium. In the case of CDs, there is no data compression; to be a CD, it must conform to the audio format of a CD. This means that the digital data is "all there", and not an mp3 or other compressed format. However, the dynamic range of the music on the CD can be compressed. You can get some feel for this by listening to a soundtrack on a DVD through a Dolby Digital processor that has a "night time" listening mode, which makes the dialog and the explosions in your movies closer to the same volume, so you don't have to keep your family awake at night when you watch a movie and want it loud enough that you can hear the dialog.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
There cannot be a standard for how music is produced because that would interfere with creativity. People can do what they want, so they do. And that means that they are free to make great music, or crap, or anything in between. They can process and alter the sound any way they want. Sometimes, this results in something like Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, and sometimes it results in, well, provide your own example of crap.

As for the word "compression", you are confusing two different things: The compression of the dynamic range of a recording, which is changing the volume levels of the loud and the soft portions of the music to make them less different, and data compression for digital recordings (e.g., mp3s, etc.), which is a completely different matter, which is done in order to save space on the recording medium. In the case of CDs, there is no data compression; to be a CD, it must conform to the audio format of a CD. This means that the digital data is "all there", and not an mp3 or other compressed format. However, the dynamic range of the music on the CD can be compressed. You can get some feel for this by listening to a soundtrack on a DVD through a Dolby Digital processor that has a "night time" listening mode, which makes the dialog and the explosions in your movies closer to the same volume, so you don't have to keep your family awake at night when you watch a movie and want it loud enough that you can hear the dialog.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3
Thanks for the good info. I understand what dynamic compression is. I may have been confusion some things before. It's just a shame the recording techniques of today are so horrible. If the dynamic range needs to be altered, leave that up to the end user. Why change what would otherwise be good material? This issue has severely limited what i can listen to on my system. Some music, which I once thought of as good music, sounds like total crap on my current system. Which is saying a lot b/c the Rocket's are actually pretty forgiving to poorer quality recordings. I will say that the taste of my music has changed somewhat. After hearing very well recorded material, I just can't go back to the old crap anymore. It seems like many listeners today are just hearing a bunch of noise in the background, but they aren't really listening to the music. I just love the fine details of the instruments that well recorded material brings. Like the extension and separation of individual notes on strings, the reverb, hollow, openness on certain wood instruments, the shimmer of symbols, etc. These are all characteristics that lets the listener hear each artists unique quality. With other compression techniques, you miss all that detail. What a shame. :(
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Thanks for the review! You have my interest peaked, as I would like to check out my PC-Ultra's musical capabilities. Just ordered it from Amazon and will have it on Wednesday. I'll try to remember to follow up with my impressions.
Hey Adam,
Did you ever receive the CD? Just wanted to see what you thought of it. :)
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Hey Adam,
Did you ever receive the CD? Just wanted to see what you thought of it. :)
Yep, I got it on Wednesday! I plan on listening to it tonight or tomorrow, and I'll definitely let you know what I think of it.
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Yep, I got it on Wednesday! I plan on listening to it tonight or tomorrow, and I'll definitely let you know what I think of it.
Great! i think you'll like it. I'm not even using a sub and it sounds really good, IMO. :)
 
B

BobSD

Audioholic
I enjoyed reading this thread, very educational, and to show my need for some , not sure what a 20 bit recording is and do you need a special CD player or receiver set up to play it?
I enjoy a very wide variety of music, but the jazz musicians seem to be ahead of the pack when it comes to clearity, separation, and trying to be in the room with the listener. I have my special collection CDs that I feel like I am in the Jazz club with them. like , "Digability", Sam Gardon, or Grover Washington's "Jazz Moods: Cool", Track 6- Take Five.
I was just getting ready to start a new thread, what kind of Good quality Cd player folks like around here? I was thinking of buying one of those pricy ones for $1,500 to $5,000, thinking the sound would be better, but was told I would just be wasting my money. Any suggestion, for CD players bringing the most out of good CDs?
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
I enjoyed reading this thread, very educational, and to show my need for some , not sure what a 20 bit recording is and do you need a special CD player or receiver set up to play it?
I enjoy a very wide variety of music, but the jazz musicians seem to be ahead of the pack when it comes to clearity, separation, and trying to be in the room with the listener. I have my special collection CDs that I feel like I am in the Jazz club with them. like , "Digability", Sam Gardon, or Grover Washington's "Jazz Moods: Cool", Track 6- Take Five.
I was just getting ready to start a new thread, what kind of Good quality Cd player folks like around here? I was thinking of buying one of those pricy ones for $1,500 to $5,000, thinking the sound would be better, but was told I would just be wasting my money. Any suggestion, for CD players bringing the most out of good CDs?
Hey Bob,
I know what you mean about Jazz music as well as other well recorded music. It does give you the "like being there" experience. The CD I've mentioned in this thread is another good example. As for your question about 20-bit CD's, any CD player can play them. It is the same CD format so no worries there. The difference is in the way it is recorded, mastered, etc. A typical CD uses 16-bit, but some high quality recordings use 20-bit. It really does sound fantastic. You could do better with SACD or DVD-A, but those type of discs are a different format and would require an SACD/DVD-A player. You may want to purchase an SACD/DAVD-A player if your goal is to achieve the best audio performance possible. Many of these discs are also recorded in a multi-channel format instead of stereo. Also, these players play regular CD's as well. So, if you are planning on putting some money into a good player, you're better off purchasing a player that can play the high resolution formats. You should check out the Oppo players. They play just about every format (except Blu-ray), are very reasonably priced, and have gotten excellent reviews. Here's a link: http://www.oppodigital.com/default.asp?partner=google&gclid=CLPhhJvSsJMCFQEnGgodJ3YSow

Good luck! :)
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Well, I sat down yesterday to check out the CD. It is going to have to grow on me. I wasn't able to make it through more than about 10-20 seconds of any song. Just not my cup of tea, at least not yet. Hard to comment about the audio quality because I didn't give it enough of a chance. I'll probably sit down again today and give it some more time - after I finish changing a flat tire. Ugggg. Second flat in two months, and this one was on a brand new tire. Yeah, that'll really put me in the mode to enjoy some tunes. :)
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well, I sat down yesterday to check out the CD. It is going to have to grow on me. I wasn't able to make it through more than about 10-20 seconds of any song. Just not my cup of tea, at least not yet. Hard to comment about the audio quality because I didn't give it enough of a chance. I'll probably sit down again today and give it some more time - after I finish changing a flat tire. Ugggg. Second flat in two months, and this one was on a brand new tire. Yeah, that'll really put me in the mode to enjoy some tunes. :)
Hey Adam,
Sorry you feel that way. Maybe it's just not your style of music. The main reason I brought it up in the thread was because I thought it was recorded very well. I can hear all kinds of detail on this CD that some of my other CD's are really lacking, so hopefully, if you find you just don't care for that style, maybe you can at least appreciate it from a technical standpoint. Try listening with you sub on and off and see if it makes a difference. Oh, and good luck with the flat tire. That is pretty bad luck. Good luck, Man. :)
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Hey Adam,
Sorry you feel that way. Maybe it's just not your style of music. The main reason I brought it up in the thread was because I thought it was recorded very well. I can hear all kinds of detail on this CD that some of my other CD's are really lacking, so hopefully, if you find you just don't care for that style, maybe you can at least appreciate it from a technical standpoint. Try listening with you sub on and off and see if it makes a difference. Oh, and good luck with the flat tire. That is pretty bad luck. Good luck, Man. :)
I really do look forward to giving it more of a chance so that I can listen for those details. It just doesn't seem to be my style, at least it wasn't yesterday (for some perspective, I couldn't get in the zone to listen to any movies yesterday, either). Nothing against jazz or this CD at all. It just didn't catch my interest right away, so I moved on. Very short attention span yesterday, I guess.

Thanks for the well wishes on the tire. Darn thing won't come off. Most probably cause - my shortcoming of muscles. :) I'll get there, though. Gotta get the spare on so that I can take the pooch for a ride tonight. Well, that and get the car to a tire repair place...
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
Just Down loaded it off of I-Tunes and I must say it sounds incredible and didnt even have my sub going it was more than enough with just my Studio 60's. Ufortunately I never burned a cd before and and after only the first couple songs I ejected the cd to see if it was burning :rolleyes: and it was so now it wont let me burn the rest because its not a blank cd but I did manage to listen to the first 2 songs on my home system and I still cant wipe the smile off my face :D Thanks Soundman for the tip :)
 

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