Cheap Phono Preamps

[thecrunge]

Ok here is my question. I have a older Phillips 777 turntable that I have been running into my Yamaha RX-v361 receiver. The problem is that in order to get sound, I need to max out my volume on the receiver, even then I feel I could get more power. This is not efficient because the volume could be louder than it already is and I feel like this is bad for my receiver. My understanding is that a phono preamp would help this situation.

Are there any cheap preamps that could work for me here. I mean less than $50. I have seen a bunch on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Phono-Pre-Amp-Record-LP-Preamp-Turntable-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ160193219429QQihZ006QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and I know this will not be a HiFi solution, but for now, I just want something that sounds decent. Has anyone heard any of these or have any other cheap suggestions?

 

[MUDSHARK]

Not sure if they are less than $50 but music hall makes some good ones reasonably priced. Also Cambridge although the price may be closer to $80-100.

 

[thecrunge]

Is there anything else out there. This is just something to listen to some vinyl with, doesn't have to be an audiophile solution. Has anyone tried any of the ebay or radioshack ones?

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok here is my question. I have a older Phillips 777 turntable that I have been running into my Yamaha RX-v361 receiver. The problem is that in order to get sound, I need to max out my volume on the receiver, even then I feel I could get more power. This is not efficient because the volume could be louder than it already is and I feel like this is bad for my receiver. My understanding is that a phono preamp would help this situation.

Are there any cheap preamps that could work for me here. I mean less than $50. I have seen a bunch on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Phono-Pre-Amp-Record-LP-Preamp-Turntable-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ160193219429QQihZ006QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and I know this will not be a HiFi solution, but for now, I just want something that sounds decent. Has anyone heard any of these or have any other cheap suggestions?

The problem is that turntables produce very little output, and not only do they need a lot of voltage amplification, RIAA de emphasis has to be provided or it sounds terrible. If you do not have a vintage pre amp a phone preamp will do this for you.

Here are the needle doctor's offerings. Prices range from $12,500 to $29!

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Phono-Preamps?range=51,62,62

Jerry Raskin the Needle Doctor has been in business in Dinky Town near the U of M in Minneapolis long before the net. He is 100% reliable, and the best source for anything to do with turntables. I have known and dealt with him for years.

You won't believe how much better it will sound with one of those preamps. The LP is a high fidelity medium make no mistake.

 

[thecrunge]

Has anyone tried any of those like $15 ebay ones? Thats what I am leaning towards right now. The main thing is that I just want something to make my player functional, I won't be listening to LP's all the time. Therefore I want something cheap.

 

[TLS Guy]

The problem is that turntables produce very little output, and not only do they need a lot of voltage amplification, RIAA de emphasis has to be provided or it sounds terrible. If you do not have a vintage pre amp a phone preamp will do this for you.

Here are the needle doctor's offerings. Prices range from $12,500 to $29!

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Phono-Preamps?range=51,62,62

Jerry Raskin the Needle Doctor has been in business in Dinky Town near the U of M in Minneapolis long before the net. He is 100% reliable, and the best source for anything to do with turntables. I have known and dealt with him for years.

You won't believe how much better it will sound with one of those preamps. The LP is a high fidelity medium make no mistake.

This is the cheapest one that will be any good. Avoid Junk, it never pays.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Esoteric-Sounds-Rek-O-Kut-Professional-Preamp-Incredibly-Accurate-Frequency-Response

 

[thecrunge]

I need to think about this. Still not sure whether I want to spend $60 on something that I might not use that much.

 

[TLS Guy]

I need to think about this. Still not sure whether I want to spend $60 on something that I might not use that much.

What is your turntable and cartridge? Do you have a significant LP collection?

In my view the reasons for owning good LP equipment are to play and or archive your existing collection. If you want certain material that never has or will be transferred to CD. If you want to have the pleasure of having and using fine equipment of what is now a bygone age.

 

[thecrunge]

The turntable is an older Phillips 777 with a Stanton cartridge on it right now. It is my dads setup from the late 70's and really hasn't been used significantly since then. I am listening to a lot of LP's from my parents, although I would like to buy some time fill in some CD's that I have that I would like to hear on Vinyl. But so far, from what I have heard, I really like the sound the vinyl is providing, it is just different than that comes out of a CD player. I would like to continue listening periodically, hence my need for the preamp.

 

[TLS Guy]

The turntable is an older Phillips 777 with a Stanton cartridge on it right now. It is my dads setup from the late 70's and really hasn't been used significantly since then. I am listening to a lot of LP's from my parents, although I would like to buy some time fill in some CD's that I have that I would like to hear on Vinyl. But so far, from what I have heard, I really like the sound the vinyl is providing, it is just different than that comes out of a CD player. I would like to continue listening periodically, hence my need for the preamp.

That sounds like a good reason tp listen to vinyl, although at the moment you are hearing it with a huge HF pre emphasis. I would get the preamp I recommended.

 

[thecrunge]

Thanks for all of your advice TLS, I guess most of my hesitancy is based on the fact that the player itself likely isn't worth the $70 for that preamp. And by no means of the imagination is my setup "Hi-Fi" right now. Guess I will have to try to decide what to do.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for all of your advice TLS, I guess most of my hesitancy is based on the fact that the player itself likely isn't worth the $70 for that preamp. And by no means of the imagination is my setup "Hi-Fi" right now. Guess I will have to try to decide what to do.

Is this your turntable?

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=2253&sid=f2b7933012d9d867cbc959ebdae0857e

If it is, and is in good shape, it is worth significantly more than $70. If it is in good shape it would fetch $125 to $150 on eBay with cartridge. Good older turntables are always a wanted item. Anyhow you got this one free, so $60 for a good turntable is very good value.

 

[thecrunge]

That is in fact the exact turntable. And it is in great shape so far as I can tell. Plays well (except for a somewhat lack of bass which I think is attributed to the lack of power being fed to it now). Thanks for that link, I am sure my dad will be amused to find out how much that is worth, even after all this time.

 

[TLS Guy]

That is in fact the exact turntable. And it is in great shape so far as I can tell. Plays well (except for a somewhat lack of bass which I think is attributed to the lack of power being fed to it now). Thanks for that link, I am sure my dad will be amused to find out how much that is worth, even after all this time.

No! The lack of bass is due to the fact that you have no RIAA de emphasis. LPs were recorded with a huge HF pre emphasis. This was in part due to the characteristics of the cutter head, but mainly to reduce surface noise, and also reduce the space taken by LF frequencies. On replay that curve has to have de emphasis from the preamp phono stage. The response of the pre amp has to be the exact inverse of the RIAA recording curve.

Fortunately the RIAA standardized this curve at the beginning of the LP era. This curve was adopted world wide. In the 78 RPM era, each company had its own curve. This makes the proper play back of 78s a challenge

In America tape recordings also had HF pre emphasis to minimize the effects of tape hiss. There was a curve for each tape speed. In America the NAB curves were used. Unfortunately this was not a world wide standard, and in Europe they had the CCIR cuves and later IEEC/DIN.

So you see your preamp will not just provide voltage amplification, but also equalize the RIAA curve to a flat frequency response. You will be astonished how your LPs sound.

Here is my vintage turntable case.

http://mdcarter.smugmug.com/gallery/2424008#127077056

The preamp on the left is a Quad 22 preamp that has the EQ selectable for just about any 78 cut. I have a DECCA MK II 78 RPM head for the DECCA ffss arm. The other two turntables are for LP playback. The middle turntable is a Thorens TD 150 the outer two are Garrard 301s

 

[thecrunge]

So I am right in assuming that pretty much any preamp will dramatically increase the quality of sound comming from the recordings? That would be great, because as much as I like the sound now, something is missing (bass and the recordings sound a bit tinny).

 

[B3Nut]

So I am right in assuming that pretty much any preamp will dramatically increase the quality of sound comming from the recordings? That would be great, because as much as I like the sound now, something is missing (bass and the recordings sound a bit tinny).

Goodness yes...not only do you need the voltage gain, but as TLS said above the RIAA equalization is absolutely essential. Once you get a phono preamp in line you will be much happier with the sound.

As an aside, having a good turntable rig is a must for any music lover IMHO, as it opens up many interesting avenues for music collecting. You'll start hitting thrift shops and yard sales for unique, rare, or off-the-wall records like the rest of us junkies.

Good luck!

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

 

[TLS Guy]

So I am right in assuming that pretty much any preamp will dramatically increase the quality of sound comming from the recordings? That would be great, because as much as I like the sound now, something is missing (bass and the recordings sound a bit tinny).

Any, is going too far. The cheap ones will correct the RIAA curve poorly. If you get something really cheap and nasty you will have a poor bass response. The one I selected for you is as far down the market as you want go. Getting a slightly better one would not hurt either, but I think the REK-O-Kut I selected will meet your needs at this time. I think you will cheat yourself if you get one cheaper than that. In the LP era the phono RIAA section was a significant part of the cost. That's why it is not included now.

 

[thecrunge]

Any thoughts on this Behringer unit?

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=BEHRPP400&Category_Code=PP

Price is nice and it seems a lot better than the other cheapo units. I just don't know if I can spend $75 on a better Preamp. Parents might not like that. It is a huge pain having to worry about things like this.

 

[TLS Guy]

Any thoughts on this Behringer unit?

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=BEHRPP400&Category_Code=PP

Price is nice and it seems a lot better than the other cheapo units. I just don't know if I can spend $75 on a better Preamp. Parents might not like that. It is a huge pain having to worry about things like this.

Well it will be a lot better than what you are doing now. The bass response is not divulged, that is one of the things that sorts them out. Behringer products seem pretty good but their primary market is the band and DJ crowd.

 

[B3Nut]

Give your situation the Behringer sounds like a safe bet, should be sonically OK and won't draw ire from family members. For the money, you can't go too far wrong...and if you get more heavily into vinyl you can always step up to a nicer unit later. A serviceable phono preamp for the price of a few McDonald's runs ain't a bad deal.

TP