CD Compression Depression Music Industry Idiocracy

[3db]

As avaserfi points out above, and what appears to be common knowledge, decent dynamic range such as 20 to 30 db appears to be preferred than 6 db or less.
The hyper compression we are hearing today has only been "doable" due to digital recording, as they could not do this for tape & vinyl or so I have been told.
I think the record companies are convincing themselves into lower sales with the present state of affairs.
d.b.

I think thats one reason why I've turned back to vinyl. This constant loudness and distortion I hear from many of the bands is just so tiring. Joe Shmoe had mentioned teh "Artic Monkeys". Great band, too bad teh recording engineers couldn't back of the volume a little and let the music speak for itself. Like so many industries, everyone is geared to the short term monetary gain rather than coming up with a solid long term plan. CDs are dieing because of MP3s and because of sh?t recordings filled full of clips and distortion. Serves the rescording industry right if they go under.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I think thats one reason why I've turned back to vinyl. .

I hate to see people turning back to vinyl because of this. I would much rather see the industry pressured into changing its ways. Since my collection is already large enough to keep me going a long time, I could easily support a boycott. The key is somehow to get past the complacency, and communicate the fact that we are unhappy with the loudness wars.

 

[Dan Banquer]

I think thats one reason why I've turned back to vinyl. This constant loudness and distortion I hear from many of the bands is just so tiring. Joe Shmoe had mentioned teh "Artic Monkeys". Great band, too bad teh recording engineers couldn't back of the volume a little and let the music speak for itself. Like so many industries, everyone is geared to the short term monetary gain rather than coming up with a solid long term plan. CDs are dieing because of MP3s and because of sh?t recordings filled full of clips and distortion. Serves the rescording industry right if they go under.

It's the reason why many people are going back to Vinyl. 10 years ago if you had told me there would be an upsurge in vinyl due to deliberately bad practices in the recording process I would have laughed at you.
Well I guess the moral of the story is never underestimate the stupidity of the Music Industry, but what really irks me is that we have the technology to do incredible low distortion and wide dynamic range recordings that can be put on a CD. I have some incredible recordings, as probably most of you have, so we have an inkling, if you will, of what the medium is capable of. It's the mentality that's the issue here, not the medium.
d.b.

d.b.

 

[3db]

It's the reason why many people are going back to Vinyl. 10 years ago if you had told me there would be an upsurge in vinyl due to deliberately bad practices in the recording process I would have laughed at you.
Well I guess the moral of the story is never underestimate the stupidity of the Music Industry, but what really irks me is that we have the technology to do incredible low distortion and wide dynamic range recordings that can be put on a CD. I have some incredible recordings, as probably most of you have, so we have an inkling, if you will, of what the medium is capable of. It's the mentality that's the issue here, not the medium.
d.b.

d.b.

I agree. unfortuatekly its the mentality that we are stuck hearing

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

How long until awful mastering/engineering makes its way onto vinyl?

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

SACD was also supposed to restore proper listening, but then they show up in stores and we got clipping at an impressive 24bit and 5 channels of no dynamic range. (ex. Norah Jones)

 

[Waveform]

I hate to see people turning back to vinyl because of this. I would much rather see the industry pressured into changing its ways. Since my collection is already large enough to keep me going a long time, I could easily support a boycott. The key is somehow to get past the complacency, and communicate the fact that we are unhappy with the loudness wars.

One way to fight back is to create an Recording Engineer Hall of Shame and name names in a forum like this. I would suspect that these people would hate to see their name on one of these lists. The carrot would be a list of engineers who have distinguished themselves.

 

[gene]

My experience with SACD 2CH has been quite positive thus far as most of my 2CH recordings have plenty of dynamic range. Most of my SACD multi channel recordings on the other hand sound aweful.

I like the idea of the hall of shame. Anyone with an oscope want to take on this challenge? Any recording with less than 10dB dynamic range should be listed. I'd increase that requirement, but I don't think anyone wants a full time job documenting crappy recordings

 

[krabapple]

How long until awful mastering/engineering makes its way onto vinyl?

It happened already , in the vinyl era. Not all LPs sounded great, you know.

 

[krabapple]

SACD was also supposed to restore proper listening, but then they show up in stores and we got clipping at an impressive 24bit and 5 channels of no dynamic range. (ex. Norah Jones)

That has to have been done in the PCM domain, then adjusted downwards and transcoded to DSD so that the clipped peaks weren't in the SACD 'no fly ' zone.. A pure SACD recording isn't 'allowed' to 'got to 0'...one of the only real 'advantages' of SACD.

 

[krabapple]

My experience with SACD 2CH has been quite positive thus far as most of my 2CH recordings have plenty of dynamic range. Most of my SACD multi channel recordings on the other hand sound aweful.

Wow. Why? I would guess you just don't like the mixing. It's not likely due to compression, if it's SACD. DVD-A on the other hand can be and has been easily compressed, just like any other PCM recording.

I like the idea of the hall of shame. Anyone with an oscope want to take on this challenge? Any recording with less than 10dB dynamic range should be listed. I'd increase that requirement, but I don't think anyone wants a full time job documenting crappy recordings

There's been a longstanding thread that does this on hydrogenaudio.org:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=27691&hl=worst+mastering

 

[Dan Banquer]

Give me a place to post CD's with this problem and Ill be happy to list what I find. I think there are few other people here on this forum that have the equipment necessary that will also be happy to do the same thing. I would like to suggest that we separate by musical genre and alphabetize.
To butcher a famous quote from Patrick Henry: Give me music or give me the Wall of Shame!
My apologies to Mr. Henry.
d.b.

 

[WmAx]

My experience with SACD 2CH has been quite positive thus far as most of my 2CH recordings have plenty of dynamic range. Most of my SACD multi channel recordings on the other hand sound aweful.

I like the idea of the hall of shame. Anyone with an oscope want to take on this challenge? Any recording with less than 10dB dynamic range should be listed. I'd increase that requirement, but I don't think anyone wants a full time job documenting crappy recordings

An accurate rip or recording of the waveform can be analyzed accurately, also, by some professional audio analysis programs. One such example is Adobe Audition, which will also calculate statistical trends of energy levels.

-Chris

 

[Joe Schmoe]

How long until awful mastering/engineering makes its way onto vinyl?

It is digital that makes extreme compression possible. It is my understanding that it can't be done on vinyl. (Of course, vinyl has many problems that CD does not, eg limited frequency range and high noise floor.)

 

[krabapple]

Give me a place to post CD's with this problem and Ill be happy to list what I find. I think there are few other people here on this forum that have the equipment necessary that will also be happy to do the same thing. I would like to suggest that we separate by musical genre and alphabetize.
To butcher a famous quote from Patrick Henry: Give me music or give me the Wall of Shame!
My apologies to Mr. Henry.
d.b.

Dan, I'm interested to know what software came with your soundcard, that displays things like intersample overs.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Hall Of Shame™ Nominees

Amy Winehouse - Back to Black for rampant clipping [producers Mark Ronson & Salaam Remi are listed]

 

[Dan Banquer]

Hall of Shame Nominee

Joe Zawinul & the WDR Big Band: Brown Street.
Mike Brecker: Wide Angles.
No fault to the musicians on this one. The real villians here are the person(s) who are responsible for the insidious overdose of compression.
d.b.

 

[3db]

It is digital that makes extreme compression possible. It is my understanding that it can't be done on vinyl. (Of course, vinyl has many problems that CD does not, eg limited frequency range and high noise floor.)

Frequency coverage of vinyl is 20Hz to 20KHz not that I can hear anything over 14KHz these days and the noise floor is very much dependent on the recording itself which is inaudable on most recordings. Its like saying all CD recordings are sh?t because of over compression.

I prefer the sound of vinyl with its faults over the crap thats coming out on alot of the CDs these days. Its not near as grating or fatiguing.

 

[chas_w]

http://www.turnmeup.org/

 

[gus6464]

You can't rip an SACD to a PC right? No compression just fully uncompressed.