Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
I still firmly believe that the LSi series is more refined than the RTi series. The tweeter difference is more than enough for me.
I like the RTi tweeter better. I have heard both.

Just because it has more woofers or has more displacement doesn't make it a better speaker. It has been mentioned here before that if you use the receiver's x-over the three 7" woofers are a moot point.
The 7"ers would be used for mids.

Concerning the 4 ohm impedance, the Onkyo TX-NR905 is 4 ohm stable. If additional amplification is needed it can be added later. There is no sense in buying everything not knowing if you need it or not.
My Adcom 7605 is 4ohm stable. It could use some help. Seriously.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
While the bookshelf is an option, for HT, I prefer the RTi8's over any of the others. Next, I would have to move to the new RTi line, or another brand.
What is it about LSi that you don't like?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Don't skip the amps. Those Polks want, and need the power. There is nothing wrong with what you have chosen, and, I would bet money that it would probably smoke any system owned by the people telling you that receiver has enough power. People using mid-fi receiver power don't know the difference. If they did, they wouldn't be using receiver power.
zumbo, we see a lot of things alike. However, per usual we are all responding without information that might be necessary yet unsupplied by the OP. I really believe that this need is greatly dependent on many things such as:
-the size of room
-distance from speakers
-speakers' efficiency
-speakers' load
-normal volumes desired
-full range speakers, if not, at what x-over

As with you, my separate amp gives me so much better audio in terms of dynamic range, volume without distortion, less compression, etc. Things do sound better for such reasons. However, I run 6 of 7 speakers as full range, have decent distance from the speakers, on average the speakers have tough loads, I like it loud, etc...

Someone in a 12x12 room, who only enjoys moderate volumes, and x-overs all the speakers at 80hz, while having 93db efficiency at 8 ohms, etc, only 5-6 ft from speakers, etc, will be plenty fine with that 905. Still, I agree with you zumbo in the general principle that many people have no idea what they are missing. But definitely not all.

Lastly, I have an audiophile friend who I respect greatly who once owned the Lsi series bookshelves. I haven't asked what he thought of them. I know after I heard the lsi25 towers, my opinion is that they are easily the most veiled speaker of 25-30 pairs I've heard at over the 1k mark. However, they were powered with a Pioneer Elite receiver, perhaps not nearly enough current to open them up. I immediately recoginzed the Vifa ring tweeters (seen them before on other speakers, maybe Audio Physic?), and the dealer didn't even know... Anyways, there was a thread at AVS, with a former dealer speaking, and he said that Polk really inflates these Lsi msrp prices so that the discounts look all that more enticing.

I personally hate the Lsi speakers. I would easily pay less and get something else. I have never heard the Rti line, but I have heard Polk's cheapest selections... and lastly, thanks for all the info on the Quarts, zumbo, much obliged.

regarding the veiled nature of the Lsi... the Quad 22L was pretty veiled too. Still, even if the Lsi seemed a lot worse, it was not an A/B test, and the Quads had the benefit of hi-current Rotel power.
 
H

halfj-7

Audiophyte
Had to grab the popcorn on the back n forths on the LSi's. LOL
Thanks for the inputs all.
The room layout is very horrible. The actual space is 17' x 17'. But the ceiling is 18' tall cathedral and opens into loft areas on three sides. Kind think of someone taking a barn and turning it into a house. Off to the side there is a dining room which seems to be turning into a echo chamber now that the drywall is up. Oh and concrete floors just to make sure its properly screwed.
Other thoughts, I'm tying the cost of this in the home loan, so I don't think I'll have much time to try the speakers with or without amps.
I understand now spending more on speakers, less on receivers, etc. But I already bought the RCi65 and wall brackets are in. To me the LSi15 woofers would be unused if I went with subs, or skip the subs and buy the 15's? Kinda lost there.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
The woofers are x-over at 120/150 Hz in the RTi 10,12/LSi respectively, which is generally why I recommend the RTi 8s when a sub is used and x-over at 80 hz.
 
A

alexsound

Audioholic
Had to grab the popcorn on the back n forths on the LSi's. LOL
Thanks for the inputs all.
The room layout is very horrible. The actual space is 17' x 17'. But the ceiling is 18' tall cathedral and opens into loft areas on three sides. Kind think of someone taking a barn and turning it into a house. Off to the side there is a dining room which seems to be turning into a echo chamber now that the drywall is up. Oh and concrete floors just to make sure its properly screwed.
Other thoughts, I'm tying the cost of this in the home loan, so I don't think I'll have much time to try the speakers with or without amps.
I understand now spending more on speakers, less on receivers, etc. But I already bought the RCi65 and wall brackets are in. To me the LSi15 woofers would be unused if I went with subs, or skip the subs and buy the 15's? Kinda lost there.

Sticking the neck out here again, but I still think, even with a room as large as yours, unless you like it REALLY, REALLY loud, you can stick with the receiver you chose without extra external amps AND go with 2 subs.
The 905 does NOT have a "mid-fi" amp section even when compared to many stand alone amps. Remember, the 905 is an Ultra 2 certified product.
I know this by itself may not mean much to many, but as far as actual power output, it does mean something. Look at S&V's review of the lower end 875 as well as Ultimate AV's review of the same unit. The 905 is basically the same unit. I will take back my suggestion on getting better speakers. I actually took some time this weekend to hear the center channel you picked out at a local CCity, and was impressed at the output it was capable of.
AND it was being powered by a Onkyo 603X in the display room.

By the way, I do have an external power amp with my setup. I have an
Outlaw unit myself, the 7125 7 ch with an RX-v2500 Yammy as a prepro.
I ended up going this route because the 2500 just didn't have enough
juice. I really, really don't think that would be the case with the 905.
My current TV setup is a Mitsu 62" 720p DLP RPTV. It's "pre-HDMI and it's still kicking after getting a new bulb. I have Infinity BETA's all around 50's L/R, 360 Center, 20's rear and ES250's side surround. I have 1 CSW10 as my sub.


When I finally upgrade my display, I will probably also "upgrade" to one of the newer high end receivers like the 905 or the Pioneer 94.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
While the bookshelf is an option, for HT, I prefer the RTi8's over any of the others. Next, I would have to move to the new RTi line, or another brand.
The woofers are x-over at 120/150 Hz in the RTi 10,12/LSi respectively, which is generally why I recommend the RTi 8s when a sub is used and x-over at 80 hz.
I agree with the 8's 100%.
I agree with the amps 100%.
I personally would only get one three channel amp, or a five channel(bi-amp mains), but that's just me.
I have open beam ceilings.(no attic) My living room is also connected to the kitchen/dining. Mine is 30 x 18.(whole area included)
I have one sub. NHT SW-12. Corner placement. It's plenty.
I use a Yamaha 1400 as a pre-pro. It ran out of gas.
I use an Adcom 7605. L&R will run out of gas. I plan to bi-amp the mains, and run the rears off of the receiver to correct this problem.
All five speakers are 4ohm. 87db(l,r,sl,sr) 90db(c)
 
Last edited:
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
By the way, I do have an external power amp with my setup. I have an
Outlaw unit myself, the 7125 7 ch with an RX-v2500 Yammy as a prepro.
I ended up going this route because the 2500 just didn't have enough
juice. I really, really don't think that would be the case with the 905.
You seem to be very honest. That's good.;)
Let me ask you a question, and I am in no way trying to be rude.
Did you think your 2500 was going to be enough?:confused:
But, did you really, really think it was?:D

Outlaw 7125 specs:
Power Output:
7 x 125 watts RMS at 8 ohms, all channels driven from 20 Hz to 20kHz with less than 0.05% THD
7 x 190 watts RMS at 4 ohms, all channels driven from 20 Hz to 20kHz with less than 0.05% THD

2500 specs:
RMS Output Power at 8ohm (20Hz - 20kHz) 130W x 7
 
Last edited:
A

alexsound

Audioholic
You seem to be very honest. That's good.;)
Let me ask you a question, and I am in no way trying to be rude.
Did you think your 2500 was going to be enough?:confused:
But, did you really, really think it was?:D

Outlaw 7125 specs:
Power Output:
7 x 125 watts RMS at 8 ohms, all channels driven from 20 Hz to 20kHz with less than 0.05% THD
7 x 190 watts RMS at 4 ohms, all channels driven from 20 Hz to 20kHz with less than 0.05% THD

2500 specs:
RMS Output Power at 8ohm (20Hz - 20kHz) 130W x 7

1. The Yammy's spec'd power output isn't for all channels driven.

2. This is why it's good to have a receiver with preouts:

The YAmmy started out in a smaller room of the house. We re-did the
great room/playroom as an HT and moved the Yammy and source components there. It is literally twice as big as the room the
2500 was originally in. Initially, I was pleased with the HT sound, but when playing some music in 7 channel stereo, even 2 channel, It was running out of juice ( I like metal, so I love it loud) :D . With the flurry of changes in the receiver market just in the past year, and quite frankly, even in the prepro market, I figured it would be smarter to just get an external amp, instead of a higher powered reciever or a seperate prepro/amp/amps combo. I know I can get rid of the Outlaw at a reasonable price if I had to, but an outdated reciever ? I think now the current crop of higher end units from Onkyo and Pioneer and Denon have the features that I've been looking for, specifically, more power. I mean come on, it's no secret that Yamaha doesn't put the most powerful amplification in most of their recievers, but In my opinion, what they lack in quantity, they have always made up for in quality.:)
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
1. The Yammy's spec'd power output isn't for all channels driven.

2. This is why it's good to have a receiver with preouts:

The YAmmy started out in a smaller room of the house. We re-did the
great room/playroom as an HT and moved the Yammy and source components there. It is literally twice as big as the room the
2500 was originally in. Initially, I was pleased with the HT sound, but when playing some music in 7 channel stereo, even 2 channel, It was running out of juice ( I like metal, so I love it loud) :D . With the flurry of changes in the receiver market just in the past year, and quite frankly, even in the prepro market, I figured it would be smarter to just get an external amp, instead of a higher powered reciever or a seperate prepro/amp/amps combo. I know I can get rid of the Outlaw at a reasonable price if I had to, but an outdated reciever ? I think now the current crop of higher end units from Onkyo and Pioneer and Denon have the features that I've been looking for, specifically, more power. I mean come on, it's no secret that Yamaha doesn't put the most powerful amplification in most of their recievers, but In my opinion, what they lack in quantity, they have always made up for in quality.:)
Trust me, Yamaha and Denon put just as much power in their receivers as Onkyo. Onkyo is rated as 2-channel only. Check the specs. That means, it has about the same power as your Yamaha. Not enough.

You didn't answer the questions.:confused: I figured you would, but I guess they answer their self, don't they?;)
 
Last edited:
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Trust me, Yamaha and Denon put just as much power in their receivers as Onkyo. Onkyo is rated as 2-channel only. Check the specs. That means, it has about the same power as your Yamaha. Not enough.

You didn't answer the questions.:confused: I figured you would, but I guess they answer their self, don't they?;)
The Onkyo is 4 ohm rated. It also outclasses the Yamaha RX-V2500. You are comparing a 34 pound receiver to a 54 pound receiver. Regardless of power specifications, you can bet that the Onkyo is going to have greater output capability than the Yamaha RX-V2500.
 
A

alexsound

Audioholic
Trust me, Yamaha and Denon put just as much power in their receivers as Onkyo. Onkyo is rated as 2-channel only. Check the specs. That means, it has about the same power as your Yamaha. Not enough.

You didn't answer the questions.:confused: I figured you would, but I guess they answer their self, don't they?;)
Did you not read what I wrote ? Initially, when I 1st got the 2500, it did have more than enough power in the room it was in.

When I moved it to a larger room, it didn't. I went with an external amp instead of upgrading to a larger receiver. I explained why I went this rout
already.

And while I do like my 2500, it obviously doesn't have the power for the larger room it's in now, at least for music.

This whole thing started because of an suggestion to not go with external mono amps. If a real "mid-fi" receiver had been chosen, the I probably wouldn't have even said a word, but he picked the 905.

Can you answer me a question ? Did you actually take a look at the
review online of the 875 from S&V's website ? Did you see the power
measurements ? Sorry but other than the RXZ9 or the RXZ11, I don't
think Yamaha has a reciever with that kind of power output, and I know the
2500 doesn't have that kind of power.

Also, you made a comment about the Onkyo 905's amp section as being
"mid-fi". How many "mid-fi' receivers have four seperate toroidal power supplies ? Also, you failed to acknowledge that the 905 is an Ultra 2 certiifed product. While I tried to play that down, at least on the amp side it makes a HUGE difference at least when it comes to power output. Every Ultra 2 amp I've seen reviewed has at the very least a very powerful amp section.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
So, we have some that believe this receiver will be enough for the speakers and room mentioned.

We have others, myself included, that believe the receiver will not be enough for the speakers and room mentioned.

That's all I can do for ya.

Sorry about turning this into a Yamaha vs. Onkyo situation. Didn't mean to do that. Just wanted to show that the Yamaha receiver needed an external amp. Mine did too. So, I believe this one will for this application as well.

I DON"T READ REVIEWS.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Let me be clear on where I stand.

If money were no object, I would choose seperates.

If I wanted to save money, I would buy a receiver with only the features and connections needed, and add an amp.

I would not buy an upper-end, or flagship receiver.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
The Onkyo is 4 ohm rated. It also outclasses the Yamaha RX-V2500. You are comparing a 34 pound receiver to a 54 pound receiver. Regardless of power specifications, you can bet that the Onkyo is going to have greater output capability than the Yamaha RX-V2500.
Didn't mean to imply those two were competing products.

My Adcom 7605 is 4ohm rated. It doesn't have enough for my application.

Just because something is 4ohm rated, and 54lbs, doesn't mean it can run any speaker system in any room.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
You are comparing a 34 pound receiver to a 54 pound receiver.
The specs I found for the 2500 say 41lbs, not 34. Also, the Yamaha had a retail price half of the Onkyo. They are clearly not direct competing products.

The Onkyo is 4 ohm rated.
Show me.
Specs on the Onkyo website don't give a 4ohm rating. They give a 6ohm. And, a nasty one at that.
 
Last edited:
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I am not talking about the specifications, 4 Ohm capability is a prerequisite for THX Ultra I believe, and the benchtest shows it can run stable into 4 ohms no problem. The 41 pounds is the shipping weight, the unit by itself weighs 34 pounds, this information came direct from Yamaha's website.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
I am not talking about the specifications, 4 Ohm capability is a prerequisite for THX Ultra I believe, and the benchtest shows it can run stable into 4 ohms no problem.
Was that a bench test in a review?:eek::rolleyes: I see it's running hot in another thread.LOL

The 41 pounds is the shipping weight, the unit by itself weighs 34 pounds, this information came direct from Yamaha's website.
I figured. For some reason, I couldn't get the Yamaha site to work right last night.;)
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Was that a bench test in a review?:eek::rolleyes: I see it's running hot in another thread.LOL
Your right, it runs hot. I guess it is just worthless then.:rolleyes:

The Onkyo TX-SR805 and up probably aren't very efficient, maybe that is the sacrifice they must make to enhance drive capability.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top