Help me choose an amp

[PENG]

I agree with tomd51, unless you listen to 5 or 7 ch stereo (I don't), spend your money on a better 2 channel amp will get you better sound quality for music, the Yamaha will be fine even for multichannel DVDA/SCAD music for reasons he explained, as long as the power amp handles the main L/R channels. If for some reason you really need tons of power for the center channel, you can always add a brand new 200W Outlaw monoblock for $300.

 

[dave1490]

When upgrading power amps, always go for at least twice the power, more, if possible. If you don't , you won't really notice any change.

When you double your available power, youu increase your headroom by three decibles, which is not really noticable. To get an apparant doubling of your max headrooom, you need ten times your original power.

ya you need 10x,s the power to {see}it 2x,s as loud.

 

[darien87]

Hey Carl... er Tom,

I decided to go to a local Magnolia to listen to an amp to see if I could hear the difference between a reciever and an amp. Well, I got a guy that is admittedly a bit of a shmuck. I didn't want to deal with him, but he was the only one that came over to talk to me. Anyway, I told him what I was looking to do, and he took me in to compare a B&K 125W x 2 amp to the Denon 3806 I think.

We listen to some rock, (Green Day and Fleetwood Mac), first with the B&K. The first problem is that I noticed that the sound was set up for 5.1. So I told him to turn off all but the front speakers so that I could hear JUST the B&K. Well, then I've got no vocals, because they had been coming out of the center channel. So he says, let's try with different speakers. I don't remember what we were listening to first, but now we were listening to some Def Tech towers. Again, no vocals. So I just tell the moron to turn the center back on. Lo and behold, vocals. So anyway, I listen for a bit to the B&K. It sounds good, but not any better than my Yamaha sounds.

So now we switch to the 3806, and the music sounds MUCH better. There was a ton of midbass that had been missing when we were listening to the B&K amp. The salesman even agreed with me that the Denon sounded better. So needless to say, I am more confused than ever. After I left, it hit me that maybe the Denon had some settings on that accentuated the midbass, where the B&K didn't. But I have to say, I was extremely shocked that the amp sounded worse to me.

I had planned on perhaps buying the Emotiva LPA-1 before the free shipping promotion ends this week. But now, I think I may hold off on that. Any ideas on what might have happened?

 

[whitestone]

Just ordered the LPA-1 tonight. 125 watts per channell at 60+ pounds= massive power supply.

 

[Nick250]

Hey Carl... er Tom,

I decided to go to a local Magnolia to listen to an amp to see if I could hear the difference between a reciever and an amp. Well, I got a guy that is admittedly a bit of a shmuck. I didn't want to deal with him, but he was the only one that came over to talk to me. Anyway, I told him what I was looking to do, and he took me in to compare a B&K 125W x 2 amp to the Denon 3806 I think.

We listen to some rock, (Green Day and Fleetwood Mac), first with the B&K. The first problem is that I noticed that the sound was set up for 5.1. So I told him to turn off all but the front speakers so that I could hear JUST the B&K. Well, then I've got no vocals, because they had been coming out of the center channel. So he says, let's try with different speakers. I don't remember what we were listening to first, but now we were listening to some Def Tech towers. Again, no vocals. So I just tell the moron to turn the center back on. Lo and behold, vocals. So anyway, I listen for a bit to the B&K. It sounds good, but not any better than my Yamaha sounds.

So now we switch to the 3806, and the music sounds MUCH better. There was a ton of midbass that had been missing when we were listening to the B&K amp. The salesman even agreed with me that the Denon sounded better. So needless to say, I am more confused than ever. After I left, it hit me that maybe the Denon had some settings on that accentuated the midbass, where the B&K didn't. But I have to say, I was extremely shocked that the amp sounded worse to me.

I had planned on perhaps buying the Emotiva LPA-1 before the free shipping promotion ends this week. But now, I think I may hold off on that. Any ideas on what might have happened?

The set up on the two receivers was probably different. With proper setup they should sound the same.

Nick

 

[tomd51]

Nick's right, Darien. This guy sounds like a chucklehead, there are way too many inconsistencies in this listening comparison.

First off, you should have been listening in 'Pure Direct' or 'Direct/Stereo' mode to properly compare the two. This will allow you to compare the internal amp section of the receiver as opposed to using the B&K for amplification. As it is only a two channel amp, only the modes above would provide a valid test.

Second, the speakers should be the same for both tests as this can greatly alter the sound. While this may have been the case, I'm a bit unsure whether or not you were based on your description.

Third, the 3806 should sound no different than your receiver assuming all else is the same (SPL settings, speakers, listening environment, etc.). The only time either will sound different is if you attempt to push either receiver beyond their limits, which likely will result in more distortion and a "thinner", more harsh soundstage.

Unless there was something physically wrong w/the B&K, there most definitely should have been a noticeable difference (e.g. improvement) at higher volumes when comparing against the 3806. Now if you were comparing it against the Denon 4806CI and 5805CI receivers, they likely would best this amp, however they both have MSRPs of $4,000 or higher and their amp sections are as good if not better than many stand-alone amps and at that price range, they'd better... -TD

 

[scarb0r0]

hey does anyone know a good amp that will push a lot of bass for my cerwin vega clsc-12 tower speakers? i have tried a yamaha 5950 and a 5990 and i returned them both. What type of amp will provide powerful bass and also clarity/ features?

 

[tomd51]

hey does anyone know a good amp that will push a lot of bass for my cerwin vega clsc-12 tower speakers? i have tried a yamaha 5950 and a 5990 and i returned them both. What type of amp will provide powerful bass and also clarity/ features?

Scarboro, you'll likely get more responses if you start your own thread on this... -TD

 

[darien87]

Scarboro, you'll likely get more responses if you start your own thread on this... -TD

Yeah dude, no thread hijacking!!!

 

[tomd51]

Didn't mean to sound like a d:ck, but their question would be better served as it's own thread instead of a "glom on"... -TD

 

[no. 5]

Darien: if (and this a HUGE "if") the Denon and the B&K were, in fact properly setup and level matched, and yet still sounded deferent, the frequency resonance tolerances of the two may be deferent, and if there were a graph overlaying the frequency resonance’s of the B&K and the Denon's own amp section, it would be my guess that the two plots would not look the same; point being, the Denon could accentuate midbass more then the B&K.

Maybe.

 

[scarb0r0]

i just got a store demo version of the yamaha htr 5990, which pushes 120W RMS per channel. I have two towers of Cerwin Vega CLSC-12. The amplifier sounds like garbage and the bass is weak and distorted. It is likely that my amp is damaged because I tweaked the settings and double checked everything. If i were to replace it, would i get a lot of power and especially bass out of this reciever?

 

[darien87]

i just got a store demo version of the yamaha htr 5990, which pushes 120W RMS per channel. I have two towers of Cerwin Vega CLSC-12. The amplifier sounds like garbage and the bass is weak and distorted. It is likely that my amp is damaged because I tweaked the settings and double checked everything. If i were to replace it, would i get a lot of power and especially bass out of this reciever?

 

[darien87]

Well, Tom hooked me up with an ad for an Acurus 200x3. So I bought it today. Unfortunately, it's coming all the way from Connecticut, so I should have it early next week. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

 

[tomd51]

Good to hear, D.

Definitely keep us posted on your results and feel free to let me know if you have any questions hooking it up. Oh, don't forget to update your sig w/this bad boy... -TD

 

[darien87]

Good to hear, D.

Definitely keep us posted on your results and feel free to let me know if you have any questions hooking it up. Oh, don't forget to update your sig w/this bad boy... -TD

Already updated the sig. Funny you should mention questions about hook-up.

I do happen to have a question regarding hooking up the amp. Unfortunatley, the manual doesn't say much. I know that Emotiva recommends hooking their amps directly to the wall outlet. How should I hook up the Acurus?

I'm confused, because I know my receiver has outputs in the back that I could hook the Acurus to, but if it is better to connect the amp directly to the wall, how does it turn on when the receiver turns on?

Thanks,
Darien

 

[cfrizz]

Congrats Darien. Nothing like hearing the difference in your own home with your own equipment.

The guy at the store was a moron who didn't know what he was doing!

As for the amp, if it doesn't have an auto on when it get a signal, You will either have to turn it on & off each time, or just leave it on all the time.

That is what I did with my Parasound.

 

[mike c]

pictures darien. thanks!

 

[darien87]

pictures darien. thanks!

You got it Mike. As soon as it gets here, I'll snap some pics. Mabuhai!

 

[tomd51]

The upside to hooking the amp up directly to a wall outlet/receptacle is dedicated power to that specific unit. The downside is if you experience any power spikes, you're likely to fry your amp, which is a b-i-i-ig downside. And you most definitely don't want to power the amp w/the outlets on the receiver, unless you want to fry both.

With a decent surge surpressor/line conditioner, you should be able to safely provide power for your amp. Here's a couple options, some on the cheap, some not:

Belkin PureAV 10 - $39.12
Tripp Lite Home Theater HT1010SAT3 - $47.88
Tripp Lite Home Theater HT10DBS - $67.45
Belkin AP20800-10 - $83.09
Belkin PureAV 2 Power Console PF31 - $114.99

The first few will give you what you need from a protection standpoint, but the reason I listed the Belkin PureAV PF31 is that not only does it give you a wealth of outlets (11), it also provides a few options for remote and switched turn-on of some outlets. This allows you to plug the amp into one of these designated outlets (4 available) and when the receiver is powered on, the PF31 senses this and activates these outlets. There are also cheaper options out there that do auto-on sense switching, but this is one of those all-in-one solutions that gives you lots of options and provides great protection and does so cleanly, that I can attest to personally... -TD