Looking to upgrade my turntable

[Mike Up]

Well thanks everyone. I did order a Turntable. I didn't go with Fluance for 2 reasons. I read more negative comment about cheap parts they use and how they fail.

Then I called Fluance on a break from work to ask these questions. The rep. really didn't deny that the motors are cheap and fail. He just said the Reference series had better motors. Not the answer I was hoping for. I was thinking he would try to sell the product but didn't.

So I did order an Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT model which comes with the AT-VM95c cartridge.

Over half of my records are from the 60s and 70s and were used and scratched when I got them. Mainly classic and acid rock. Some are bad and some while scratched, sound pretty good on my AT-LP60-USB where you can't even hear the scratches.

That's where I read that the conical stylus is the best for worn and scratched records. So I guess I lucked out as the 3XBT comes with a conical stylus. I guess I will be replacing the stylus more often since some records are pretty scratched up. Not many scratches are really deep where you can feel them, but some records are just covered with them.

I honestly never thought to mention here that way over half of my records were used when I got them and scratched. If I am not to listen to these, no sense in even getting another turntable. I am excited to be getting a new turntable for the higher performance though. I read some people recommend not listening to scratched records because of the wear that can be caused. Like I said, no sense in buying a turntable then with my scratched collection or even most friends collections that were bought used from record stores.

Honestly while the AT-LP60-USB sounds good, it does lack on the high end and detail where I'm hoping the AT-VM95c will correct most of that, as I read it should. Plus it so light, I accidentally push the whole turntable sometimes just hitting the buttons. It's all cheap plastic and isn't even full size but only 14" wide. Sounds good but it is cheaply made. The one thing I really wanted was an arm lock that the LP60 doesn't have. Sometimes my cat jumps up there, and I don't want the arm knocked off. I have put some items on top of the dust cover to discourage her from going up there.

Here's to getting back to listening to my collection again.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well thanks everyone. I did order a Turntable. I didn't go with Fluance for 2 reasons. I read more negative comment about cheap parts they use and how they fail.

Then I called Fluance on a break from work to ask these questions. The rep. really didn't deny that the motors are cheap and fail. He just said the Reference series had better motors. Not the answer I was hoping for. I was thinking he would try to sell the product but didn't.

So I did order an Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT model which comes with the AT-VM95c cartridge.

Over half of my records are from the 60s and 70s and were used and scratched when I got them. Mainly classic and acid rock. Some are bad and some while scratched, sound pretty good on my AT-LP60-USB where you can't even hear the scratches.

That's where I read that the conical stylus is the best for worn and scratched records. So I guess I lucked out as the 3XBT comes with a conical stylus. I guess I will be replacing the stylus more often since some records are pretty scratched up. Not many scratches are really deep where you can feel them, but some records are just covered with them.

I honestly never thought to mention here that way over half of my records were used when I got them and scratched. If I am not to listen to these, no sense in even getting another turntable. I am excited to be getting a new turntable for the higher performance though. I read some people recommend not listening to scratched records because of the wear that can be caused. Like I said, no sense in buying a turntable then with my scratched collection or even most friends collections that were bought used from record stores.

Honestly while the AT-LP60-USB sounds good, it does lack on the high end and detail where I'm hoping the AT-VM95c will correct most of that, as I read it should. Plus it so light, I accidentally push the whole turntable sometimes just hitting the buttons. It's all cheap plastic and isn't even full size but only 14" wide. Sounds good but it is cheaply made. The one thing I really wanted was an arm lock that the LP60 doesn't have. Sometimes my cat jumps up there, and I don't want the arm knocked off. I have put some items on top of the dust cover to discourage her from going up there.

Here's to getting back to listening to my collection again.

Nice. Curious, what have you done about cleaning the vinyl, particularly the used stuff? Not so much for scratches but sometimes can help otherwise.

 

[Mike Up]

I already had my realistic record cleaning bushes and ancient solutions, but I am going to buy some new cleaners. Have yet to decide what and where yet. Still researching.

 

[lovinthehd]

I already had my realistic record cleaning bushes and ancient solutions, but I am going to buy some new cleaners. Have yet to decide what and where yet. Still researching.

For an inexpensive one Spin-Clean works reasonably well.

 

[Mikado463]

Well thanks everyone. I did order a Turntable. I didn't go with Fluance for 2 reasons. I read more negative comment about cheap parts they use and how they fail.

Then I called Fluance on a break from work to ask these questions. The rep. really didn't deny that the motors are cheap and fail. He just said the Reference series had better motors. Not the answer I was hoping for. I was thinking he would try to sell the product but didn't.

So I did order an Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT model which comes with the AT-VM95c cartridge.

Over half of my records are from the 60s and 70s and were used and scratched when I got them. Mainly classic and acid rock. Some are bad and some while scratched, sound pretty good on my AT-LP60-USB where you can't even hear the scratches.

That's where I read that the conical stylus is the best for worn and scratched records. So I guess I lucked out as the 3XBT comes with a conical stylus. I guess I will be replacing the stylus more often since some records are pretty scratched up. Not many scratches are really deep where you can feel them, but some records are just covered with them.

I honestly never thought to mention here that way over half of my records were used when I got them and scratched. If I am not to listen to these, no sense in even getting another turntable. I am excited to be getting a new turntable for the higher performance though. I read some people recommend not listening to scratched records because of the wear that can be caused. Like I said, no sense in buying a turntable then with my scratched collection or even most friends collections that were bought used from record stores.

Honestly while the AT-LP60-USB sounds good, it does lack on the high end and detail where I'm hoping the AT-VM95c will correct most of that, as I read it should. Plus it so light, I accidentally push the whole turntable sometimes just hitting the buttons. It's all cheap plastic and isn't even full size but only 14" wide. Sounds good but it is cheaply made. The one thing I really wanted was an arm lock that the LP60 doesn't have. Sometimes my cat jumps up there, and I don't want the arm knocked off. I have put some items on top of the dust cover to discourage her from going up there.

Here's to getting back to listening to my collection again.

Congrats on getting back to spinning 'black pizza' ! Remember, cleanliness is next to godliness when it comes to LP's , so Lovin's suggestion at a minimum is a good one !

 

[Mike Up]

For an inexpensive one Spin-Clean works reasonably well.

Thanks, I will look into that!

 

[m. zillch]

I know people laugh at the notion but I have great success using my kitchen sink faucet with luke warm water (acting like a "water pick", inch by inch) followed by a final rinsing in distilled water I buy by the jug for cheap at the supermarket (so when it evaporates away when drying in my dish rack there are no mineral deposits left).

 

[TLS Guy]

I already had my realistic record cleaning bushes and ancient solutions, but I am going to buy some new cleaners. Have yet to decide what and where yet. Still researching.

I think it is now an opportune time to review record care. The place to start is the careful research done by the late Cecil E. Watts back in the 1950s and sixties. his work still remains the most reliable advice available.

Your description of your discs show that most who have bought and owned vinyl discs are morons.

I have a large vinyl collection going back to the 1950s and they play fine. I generally stay away from other peoples used offerings un less they can give cast iron proof of proper care.

These are the basic rules.

Never touch the playing surface.

When playing a disc remove it from the jacket and play it right away. After play is finished return it to the sleeve right away. Store discs upright and perfectly vertical.

Insert the sleeve so that the sleeve opening is at 90 degrees with respect to the sleeve opening.

DO NOT clean the disc with any liquid products unless you have a powerful vacuum cleaning machine like the Keith Monks. These are super expensive.

The reason is that liquids force dirt to the base of the groove where they cause most noise and disturbance.

So use dry cleaning with a good record brush. Do not brush across the grooves.

The best record cleaning device is the Cecil E. Watts Dust Bug. These were carefully designed using his research using electron microscopy. Do not use the cleaning fluid.

These Dust Bugs do come up on eBay from time to time, and you should snap one up.

I have lots of spare bristles and red pads.

I have discs spanning 70 years since I was seven years old and they are in good condition.

If your discs get noisy then your care is incorrect. LPs with proper care are very durable and will play fine for a lifetime.

 

[lovinthehd]

If your discs get noisy then your care is incorrect.

There are pressings that come noisy brand-new....

 

[m. zillch]

All turntables/cartridges using physical contact with a stylus put wear on the records regardless of cost, although they do vary and you are unlikely to notice a difference after just a single play or two. The best way to preserve your records is to not play them or at least as little as possible.

Stereo Review magazine Oct 1968:

 

[TLS Guy]

There are pressings that come noisy brand-new....

Not the ones I buy, but is used to avoid pressings done in the US. So, I avoided Angel pressings and sourced HMV pressings from Europe. Sadly US pressings could be a disgrace.

 

[Mike Up]

For an inexpensive one Spin-Clean works reasonably well.

This looks like a good option down the road. Right now I think I'm going to start with Audio Technica AT6012 wet clean kit. I read great reviews about this from others using for years and just love it. It does have isopropyl alcohol in the solution but appear to be less than .5% according to the MSDS sheet for the Surfactant used. Some of my old records have sticky residues on them that need cleaned. I have my old Realistic 42-117 solution still but it is really old and don't think I want to use it. Plus it's probably now known to be toxic. It isn't an isopropyl alcohol solution.

I'm also going to get the AT6013a dry dual cleaning brush and the AT607a stylus cleaner/solution.

 

[TLS Guy]

Stereo Review magazine Oct 1968:
View attachment 77212

Turntables are not created equal. The turntable in my picture is not going to do that.

 

[m. zillch]

From my perspective its not the the turntable doing the wear; its the cartridge's stylus, its particular profile (conical/spherical vs. elliptical in the supplied images) including its contact area, and the applied tracking force. Interestingly the generally superior tracking capability of elliptical ones (on loud, heavily modulated music passages) seems to actually be more aggressive in terms of groove wall wear! Ouch.

Even the manufacturers themselves admit their diamonds (one of the hardest substances there is) wear down with use so it doesn't make sense to me that the friction only wears one side of the interface yet not the other. Shure themselves says the lifetime of their V15-V cartridge (I believe one of the ones seen in some of your photos?) is:

"The stylus tip will last 500 to 800 hours of playing time. "

So if one owned 100 records and played them 5 to 8 times each, its time to consider a new stylus.

 

[Mikado463]

So, for those spinning vinyl, what is your favorite 'flavor of the month', concerning stylus shape ?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Perhaps some day in our lifetimes they will invent some sort of music player without physical contact/friction such that this is no longer an issue.

Don't they already exist, like a CD or BD player?

 

[TLS Guy]

Stereo Review magazine Oct 1968:
View attachment 77212

Actually the engineering principles of friction wear are not understood by the general public.

Two hard surfaces wear out very quickly. However a hard against a soft surface has a long life.

This became apparent in the earliest years of mechanization. The crankshaft big end bearings on an internal combustion engine are a classic example.

The crankshaft of an engine is very hard, but the clam shells at the end of the piston rods are lined with very soft metal. If both were hard the bearings would cease up almost instantly.

So the hard diamond against soft vinyl is actually promotes long life.

In the 78 era hard shellac played with steel needles caused significant wear and so many enthusiasts used fiber needles.

So, a hard stylus against soft vinyl is optimal. Cecil Watts showed that a tracking force of three grams or less caused very little wear after repeated playing, as long as the cartridge had sufficient compliance in the suspension. Arm and cartridge mass also come into this equation.

The big issue with disc playing is that the cartridge and pu arm should be designed as an integral unit. This seldom happens. However, my Shure V15xmr and my SME series 3 arms were designed as an optimal integrated system, and so are the Decca cartridges and arms designed as a unit.

 

[lovinthehd]

This looks like a good option down the road. Right now I think I'm going to start with Audio Technica AT6012 wet clean kit. I read great reviews about this from others using for years and just love it. It does have isopropyl alcohol in the solution but appear to be less than .5% according to the MSDS sheet for the Surfactant used. Some of my old records have sticky residues on them that need cleaned. I have my old Realistic 42-117 solution still but it is really old and don't think I want to use it. Plus it's probably now known to be toxic. It isn't an isopropyl alcohol solution.

I'm also going to get the AT6013a dry dual cleaning brush and the AT607a stylus cleaner/solution.

I still have an old Discwasher brush but use it dry these days. To have sticky residues, that's where the Spin-Clean I think works better....

 

[lovinthehd]

Not the ones I buy, but is used to avoid pressings done in the US. So, I avoided Angel pressings and sourced HMV pressings from Europe. Sadly US pressings could be a disgrace.

Mostly I bought US pressings....altho have tried a few european ones, but they weren't exempt from the experience. Just another reason I moved on from vinyl for the most part....nostalgia only means so much.

 

[Mike Up]

I honestly didn't think I was going to start listening to vinyl all that much again. When I put some records on the other day, they sounded really good. I have so many old, used records that it would be a shame not to listen to them. I have so many.

Now I have a lot of cassette as well, but being they are all around 30 years old, they are either breaking or squealing so bad they are unlistenable. Now the JVC TD-W318 Double cassette deck works better than the cassettes I own. I just cleaned and demagnetized the heads. Even in their best day, even the Chrome Prerecorded tapes didn't hold a candle to Vinyl because their dynamics and frequency response was so bad.

Vinyl sounds just as good if not better than many CDs depending on their masters. Just no reason not to listen. The pops and crackles bring me back to my younger days sitting in a garage, made into a hang out with a Scott receiver and high end turntable, listening to Pink Floyd's "The Wall" and "Wish You Were Here".