is loud music really dangerous?

[highfihoney]

i was searching for information pertaining to tone adjustment within the audible spectrum when i stumbled on this paper outlining the effects on people from properly equlised loud music with spl's of over 110 db, very interesting reading i might add.

what i was trying to find out is why most (audio purists) believe that equlizers & tone controls degrade the sound quality & avoid them at all costs chosing room correction instead of source correction, not only does this paper touch heavily on the subject of tone control vs room correction it also supplies alot of understandable information regarding the heightend sensitivity in peoples hearing after listening sessions that many would brand as "ear bleeding levels".

ive always been dumbfounded as to why so many audiophiles preach that loud music is dangerous, after 30 years of listening to music at levels well over 110 db & having my hearing tested yearly ive suffered no hearing loss at all, this paper suggests that its not the sheer volume levels that are dangerous & places the danger on listening to loud music that is not equlised to a persons hearing & the tones that each person finds uncomfortable.

this paper may also explain why a great number of audiophiles who chose room correction over source correction are constantly unhappy with the performance of their systems.

any thoughts?

http://www.anstendig.org/Impairment.html

 

[muncybob]

You're lucky to have no hearing loss...wish I could say the same! But it doesn't stop me from enjoying music at levels that I feel appropriate(some call it loud). As for source adjustments or room treatments I say do whatever it takes to make the experience more enjoyable...some people get too caught up in the science of audio and should spend more time enjoying it rather than analyzing it. I think most average people reach a point that no matter how many other tweaks you make the improvement will be minimal if not merely psychological.

 

[shokhead]

I cant hear you.

What? Huh!

 

[Johnd]

What? Huh!

Ditto. Hearing loss is a fact, not voodoo or witchcraft. Those people in industry and the trades experience it every day. They have proven that repeated exposure to intense, abrupt sounds, emanating from, say, a nailgun, is far worse than prolonged exposure to music at higher decibel levels, say 85, or 90 db. Does this prompt me to drop my gun and crank the music. No. I value my drums (my only pair), and have learned to appreciate music at the 60-90 db level for some time now. Although I do occasionally crank it. Happy listening (preferably without aid).

 

[highfihoney]

Ditto. Hearing loss is a fact, not voodoo or witchcraft. Those people in industry and the trades experience it every day. They have proven that repeated exposure to intense, abrupt sounds, emanating from, say, a nailgun, is far worse than prolonged exposure to music at higher decibel levels, say 85, or 90 db. Does this prompt me to drop my gun and crank the music. No. I value my drums (my only pair), and have learned to appreciate music at the 60-90 db level for some time now. Although I do occasionally crank it. Happy listening (preferably without aid).

good morning,i agree that hearing loss is a proven fact & not snake oil but i dissagree with the generalization that many use about loud music automatically causing hearing loss, i found it interesting that the musicians studied in that paper suffered no hearing loss & all are exposed to levels well over 100 db constantly.

i find noise in the work place to be much more offensive to my hearing than loud music,ive taken a spl meter to work & measured long term levels over 110 db & ive seen short term levels that were beyond my meters ability to measure,a standard skill saw cutting plywood will throw my meter right off the scale at 130 db.

 

[Johnd]

good morning,i agree that hearing loss is a proven fact & not snake oil but i dissagree with the generalization that many use about loud music automatically causing hearing loss, i found it interesting that the musicians studied in that paper suffered no hearing loss & all are exposed to levels well over 100 db constantly.

i find noise in the work place to be much more offensive to my hearing than loud music,ive taken a spl meter to work & measured long term levels over 110 db & ive seen short term levels that were beyond my meters ability to measure,a standard skill saw cutting plywood will throw my meter right off the scale at 130 db.

Good morning to you. Agreed with all that you stated above. I just happen to be in the same boat as muncybob (or similar). Certain frequencies are difficult for me to hear out of my left ear when there is high background noise. Has it gotten any worse in the past ten years? No. Have I been more guarded and careful? Yes. In the car, home, theater, workplace, etc. I see your point, I just can't hear it. Eh? Just kidding.

 

[shokhead]

Used headphones as a teen,loud. Now for the past 30 years 24/7 ringing,loud. During the hearing/freq test i cant tell if its the sound or ringing i'm hearing. My proplem is most music sounds like the tweeters are bad,tinny.

 

[furrycute]

Just to be on the safe side, I would listen to music at reasonable levels.

Last year I don't know what got into me, I often listened to my car stereo at ear bleeding levels. After a couple of months, I've noticed that my hearing in my left ear is noticeably less than my hearing in the right ear. It recovered somewhat after I stopped blasting music. But the difference is still there if I pay close enough attention to it.


Like some else have already said. You've only got one pair of eardrums, when it's shredded, it's shredded (actually hearing loss occurs at the level of sensory hairs on that flat bridge like thing inside that conch like thing inside your ear which I can't recall its name right now ).

 

[Hi Ho]

I try to protect my hearing at all times. I turn up music loud, but not to ear bleeding levels. When I'm working in the shop at school or at home I always wear ear protection. I don't care how wussy some people think I am. Those kids that are using surfacers and circular saws without ear protection aren't going to have much in the way of high end hearing.

Loud music doesn't mean automatic hearing loss. A garage band playing through inexpensive speakers at very high volume, probably not good. A well engineered/run concert with good speakers, probably not as bad as people would think.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...a great number of audiophiles who chose room correction over source correction are constantly unhappy with the performance of their systems.

any thoughts?

Ya. I may not have tried source correction (i.e. E.Q.) yet, but I have room correction (i.e. treatment) and can state without hesitation that I am most definitely happy with it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

i was searching for information pertaining to tone adjustment within the audible spectrum when i stumbled on this paper outlining the effects on people from properly equlised loud music with spl's of over 110 db, very interesting reading i might add.

what i was trying to find out is why most (audio purists) believe that equlizers & tone controls degrade the sound quality & avoid them at all costs chosing room correction instead of source correction, not only does this paper touch heavily on the subject of tone control vs room correction it also supplies alot of understandable information regarding the heightend sensitivity in peoples hearing after listening sessions that many would brand as "ear bleeding levels".

ive always been dumbfounded as to why so many audiophiles preach that loud music is dangerous, after 30 years of listening to music at levels well over 110 db & having my hearing tested yearly ive suffered no hearing loss at all, this paper suggests that its not the sheer volume levels that are dangerous & places the danger on listening to loud music that is not equlised to a persons hearing & the tones that each person finds uncomfortable.

this paper may also explain why a great number of audiophiles who chose room correction over source correction are constantly unhappy with the performance of their systems.

any thoughts?

http://www.anstendig.org/Impairment.html

I didn't see any reference to any of their papers being published in a peer reviewed journal. Why would that be, if they are in the business of advancing the frontiers of science?
And, their take on ab comparisons is way off the mark. I see where they are coming from.
Perhaps they should read some of the JAES and JASA papers on the discrimination ability, both with pure tones and other sources, such as speech or a variety of music. Pure tones are the most sensitive signals, period. But, perhaps when they publish their findings, reviewed by experts in the field, I might have to accept their findings. Not today though.

 

[highfihoney]

I didn't see any reference to any of their papers being published in a peer reviewed journal. Why would that be, if they are in the business of advancing the frontiers of science?
And, their take on ab comparisons is way off the mark. I see where they are coming from.
Perhaps they should read some of the JAES and JASA papers on the discrimination ability, both with pure tones and other sources, such as speech or a variety of music. Pure tones are the most sensitive signals, period. But, perhaps when they publish their findings, reviewed by experts in the field, I might have to accept their findings. Not today though.

good morning mtry,i wouldnt have a clue as to why there was no reference as to being published in a peer reviewed journal,it may not have been peer reviewed at all, i was meerly suggesting that the lack of tonal adjustment may be alot of the reason why so many audiophiles change gear as often as they change their shorts trying to find just the right sound that pleases them.

from what i know about human hearing related to hifi (which is very little) most people are sensitive to different tones & frequencies, i thought the papers take on tonal adjustment & the way it relates to what our ears find distastefull was pretty interesting.

 

[mulester7]

good morning mtry,i wouldnt have a clue as to why there was no reference as to being published in a peer reviewed journal,it may not have been peer reviewed at all, i was meerly suggesting that the lack of tonal adjustment may be alot of the reason why so many audiophiles change gear as often as they change their shorts trying to find just the right sound that pleases them.

from what i know about human hearing related to hifi (which is very little) most people are sensitive to different tones & frequencies, i thought the papers take on tonal adjustment & the way it relates to what our ears find distastefull was pretty interesting.

.....HiFi, ya' might as well be talking to a cantaloupe.....

 

[mtrycrafts]

good morning mtry,i wouldnt have a clue as to why there was no reference as to being published in a peer reviewed journal,it may not have been peer reviewed at all, i was meerly suggesting that the lack of tonal adjustment may be alot of the reason why so many audiophiles change gear as often as they change their shorts trying to find just the right sound that pleases them.

Or, they just have an itch, a common human trait It must have missed me though


from what i know about human hearing related to hifi (which is very little) most people are sensitive to different tones & frequencies, i thought the papers take on tonal adjustment & the way it relates to what our ears find distastefull was pretty interesting.

I would propose that this is the function of the brain. It responds to a lifelong exposure to sound of various sources. Babies from an early age can differentiate between nice, pleasant pictures and ugly one; or rather their facial expression shows this, not verbal
I also propose that some series of notes, or music, if you would, will in fact evoke emotions and other reactions. But this too, is a brain issue as it correlates those to something in life to cause theses reactions. And, I further propose that that music would evoke the response even from a car radio. That, I have first hand experience with

I just want to be sure to follow legitimate sources, not places like the Frontier Science Dept at Temple University, the fruitcakes.

 

[PENG]

i was searching for information pertaining to tone adjustment within the audible spectrum when i stumbled on this paper outlining the effects on people from properly equlised loud music with spl's of over 110 db, very interesting reading i might add.

what i was trying to find out is why most (audio purists) believe that equlizers & tone controls degrade the sound quality & avoid them at all costs chosing room correction instead of source correction, not only does this paper touch heavily on the subject of tone control vs room correction it also supplies alot of understandable information regarding the heightend sensitivity in peoples hearing after listening sessions that many would brand as "ear bleeding levels".

ive always been dumbfounded as to why so many audiophiles preach that loud music is dangerous, after 30 years of listening to music at levels well over 110 db & having my hearing tested yearly ive suffered no hearing loss at all, this paper suggests that its not the sheer volume levels that are dangerous & places the danger on listening to loud music that is not equlised to a persons hearing & the tones that each person finds uncomfortable.

this paper may also explain why a great number of audiophiles who chose room correction over source correction are constantly unhappy with the performance of their systems.

any thoughts?

http://www.anstendig.org/Impairment.html

May be you should consider yourself lucky, I would have thought that people who often listen to 110 dB of music would suffer some hearing loss over time. I was once told that most regular hearing tests do not use frequencies above 8 kHz and that hearing loss on higher frequencies are more common. I like my music loud but I know there is no cure for hearing loss so I am not going to take any chance regardless. 85 dB is my self imposed limit.

 

[Svenhook]

Maybe the dB scale is different but my High School Physics book says that 110 dB is beyond the threshold of pain and that the noise of a jet is 120 dB. Seems like if you were listening to 110 it would be like insanely loud all the time. Just a thought

 

[Johnd]

Yes, PENG, it is good to hear w/o amplification. At the risk of speaking for highfihoney, I think his thread could have been more appropriately headed. I think his point is less about advocating 110 db listening levels than it is about source correction vs. room correction. Either way, I agree. Keep the db level below 90, or one's hearing is being risked. Happy listening.

 

[PENG]

Yes, PENG, it is good to hear w/o amplification. At the risk of speaking for highfihoney, I think his thread could have been more appropriately headed. I think his point is less about advocating 110 db listening levels than it is about source correction vs. room correction. Either way, I agree. Keep the db level below 90, or one's hearing is being risked. Happy listening.

John, I was referring to the article in the link he posted, not HiFi himself. In fact, HiFi asked for "thoughts". The author seem to imply that it is the erratic nature of noise but not the volume alone that cause hear loss. He also mentioned something about the finest music may not cause hearing loss even at high volume. (Unless I misread something)

When I did a search on the web I found all kinds of articles/papers that say loud music does cause hearing loss over time.

 

[Johnd]

I agree, and that's why I used the term "more" rather than an absolute. The article discussess frequencies and volumes, and highfi seems to suggest listening to "ear bleeding levels" is ok if you adjust tonal balance.

It has been recognized for some time that certain frequencies, particularly abrupt sounds, (if you noticed my earlier thread, I referenced this) are more harmful than simple high sound levels. That is not to say high volume levels are ok. Note that I am not an ear, nose and throat specialist. So I think we are in agreement here (with the medical community, as well); avoid high decibel levels as well as harsh, abrupt noises (punch presses, guns, nailguns, etc.). Happy listening.

 

[PENG]

Yes I got your point, we are in agreement.