Question about Klipsch subwoofers

[DJ in TX]

Greetings, its been awhile, but im back at it and need some advice. Here is a quick background on me:

First, I know very little technically when it comes to audio equipment/speakers so a lot of the lingo is lost on me.

I’ve been running a pair of Paradigm Atoms bookshelves as my two speaker home audio setup for about 12 years. My receiver is the Pioneer VSX-819H.
My main focus is music (classic rock, R&B, some rap, etc.).
I don’t need to vibrate the whole neighborhood.
My focus is on adding a lot of clear accurate bass that my Atoms can't repeoduce. My budget is about $250 give or take.

I’ve always liked Klipsch speakers, I had some floow speakers in college and loved them. I know this is very divisive as some people love em and some hate em. Anyway, im not completely set on Klipsch, but it is a known quantity to some degree.

If I go with Klipsch, i was comparing several models and a discrepancy I found confused me. In comparing the R-120SW and the R-120SWi, I was thinking the wireless capability of the 120SWi was the only difference, but upon further checks, the wireless version shows an RMS rating of 115 (230 W peak), while the non-wireless is 200 RMS (400 w peak). Im wondering why this would be, and how much does it matter?

My living room where the system is, is roughly 18 ft by 16 ft, but i will also add that my house is open concept, so not many walls and in one direction is open to a hallway, and another direction is open to our kitchen/dining room, so overall a very large space with few walls dividing the different areas. My question is, is there any way a 10 inch sub would be a good fit in this space or is a 12 almost mandatory? I will only have a single sub.

Next, I have been researching other subs based on recommendations from subwoofer roundups and it seems every one that is raved about is either well above $250 or a brand I have never heard of, or no longer available new. I am not really interested in buying used.

Any other subs I should check out in this price range?
Are there any issues with wireless subs that I should be aware of? Any getting out of sync with my Atoms for example?

Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
-DJ

 

[lovinthehd]

Advertised wattage of a sub's amp doesn't tell you much at all. Sensitivity of the system can make for much different amplifier needs (a more sensitive/efficient sub would need less amp power to get to the same levels....takes a doubling of power just to achieve 3dB spl advantage), but they don't generally provide any sensitivity or even impedance information for comparison. Best way to compare is third party testing rather than the specs the marketing department signed off on . I have an old Klipsch RW12d that advertises 350W but whether its particularly different from the ones you mention, hard to know, but I find it works best in my smaller rooms as it tends to make bad port noises when pushed hard. Klipsch is always making small changes and putting new model numbers on them.

Best way to look at sub specs and performance is thru third party testing....this site isn't particularly active (and the site was down for a while, too) but an example of third party testing (done by a guy who used to do it for Audioholics too). https://data-bass.com/#/systems?_k=8ocsz6. Here's an Audioholics review of a slightly different model of Klipsch, the R-121SW https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/klipsch-r-121sw

Klipsch isn't a sub specialist particularly, altho their better models can be acceptable, but there's better out there from sub specialists like SVS, Hsu Research, RSL, Monolith, Rythmik, PSA and some others altho the starting point is more like $500-700 range with such....used subs can be a good way to save money if there are any in your area you can easily drive to for a demo and pickup from....shipping costs can get in the way outside of that....but at your budget that's where I'd start for subs/speakers. Another potential issue is amp reliability on the least expensive subs....(and on that note, I had a Pioneer 819 that died a couple weeks after warranty expired, sounds like you got a durable one! ).

As to room size you might try this article https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/subwoofer-room-size

Your room isn't particularly large and sounds like with your use your extension (how deep does it dig) and spl (sound pressure level) goals are fairly low and a 10" sub can be fine, especially if placed close to your listening position. Music generally doesn't extend particularly low, compared to movie soundtracks. Your avr can help sync with your speakers (run MCACC for the easy way), altho a wireless sub can add delay issues (delay in your avr is what is adjusted by "distance"). I'd prefer a 12" generally if not larger, but I may have different extension/spl goals than you (the Klipsch I mention is just one of several I have, including several DIY subs). Ported subs will be larger boxes than sealed subs, and the ported boxes are generally more efficient at lower frequencies, sealed need eq/amp to make up the difference. For new and wireless and lowest price possible best I can think of off the top of my head is the RSL Speedwoofer 10s.

Welcome to the forum, good luck and hope that gives you some food for thought...

 

[shadyJ]

Klipsch is good, but I wouldn't buy their lower-end subs unless there is a discount. If you can get any of the 12"s at around $250, that would probably be a good deal.

 

[DJ in TX]

Klipsch is good, but I wouldn't buy their lower-end subs unless there is a discount. If you can get any of the 12"s at around $250, that would probably be a good deal.

Is the R-120SW considered low end or middle? The price on the street seems right at $299 for most resellers, whereas Klipsch sells it on their site for $499.

 

[shadyJ]

Is the R-120SW considered low end or middle? The price on the street seems right at $299 for most resellers, whereas Klipsch sells it on their site for $499.

It would be low-end. $300 is probably a fair price for it. I would not pay $500 for it. If you want something that will blow it out of the water for the same pricing, look at the Monoprice SW-15.

 

[DJ in TX]

It would be low-end. $300 is probably a fair price for it. I would not pay $500 for it. If you want something that will blow it out of the water for the same pricing, look at the Monoprice SW-15.

I’ve had similar recommendations previously for either the mono price 12 or 15 but both have been out of stock for awhile. Likewise given mono price’s meager roots of being a low price cable outlet, it just seems a bit strange that they make subwoofers. I guess I should read some reviews.
I will add though, at least aesthetically the Klipsches look much higher end.

 

[lovinthehd]

I’ve had similar recommendations previously for either the mono price 12 or 15 but both have been out of stock for awhile. Likewise given mono price’s meager roots of being a low price cable outlet, it just seems a bit strange that they make subwoofers. I guess I should read some reviews.
I will add though, at least aesthetically the Klipsches look much higher end.

Monoprice I doubt actually manufactures much of anything . They have some good value subs that have tested well under the Monoprice name, but a much higher level of sub (and amps etc) under their Monolith brand. Some of the Monoprice subs are very good value, tho. Monoprice cables are fine as well; at the other end of the spectrum, i.e. high end/expensive cables, tend to be nonsense based (but with perhaps better aesthetic).

 

[shadyJ]

I’ve had similar recommendations previously for either the mono price 12 or 15 but both have been out of stock for awhile. Likewise given mono price’s meager roots of being a low price cable outlet, it just seems a bit strange that they make subwoofers. I guess I should read some reviews.
I will add though, at least aesthetically the Klipsches look much higher end.

To give you some perspective of how much higher performance the SW-15 will give you, here is a review of it versus a review of the R-121SW (a premium version of the sub you are looking at). On the whole, the SW-15 has about 7 to 8dB greater headroom. That means you would need to buy two Klipsch subs just to equal a single SW-15 in performance.

 

[DJ in TX]

To give you some perspective of how much higher performance the SW-15 will give you, here is a review of it versus a review of the R-121SW (a premium version of the sub you are looking at). On the whole, the SW-15 has about 7 to 8dB greater headroom. That means you would need to buy two Klipsch subs just to equal a single SW-15 in performance.

Ok this is good info. To be honest though my wife is on board with this purchase as long as it meets the following conditions:

-a single sub as space is limited
-12 inch driver (boxes accommodating 15s are too obtrusive
-spend approximately $250

So instead of comparing the klipsch against the mono price SW-15, we would need to compare to the sw-12. How would the klipsch fare against the 12 inch mono price?

 

[shadyJ]

Ok this is good info. To be honest though my wife is on board with this purchase as long as it meets the following conditions:

-a single sub as space is limited
-12 inch driver (boxes accommodating 15s are too obtrusive
-spend approximately $250

So instead of comparing the klipsch against the mono price SW-15, we would need to compare to the sw-12. How would the klipsch fare against the 12 inch mono price?

The SW-12 is almost certain to outperform the Klipsch 12"s. I don't know for sure by how much, but I would guess around 3 to 4dB. The Klipsch subs will be tuned a bit deeper though, so may be able to get a bit more deep bass than the Monoprice sub.

 

[DJ in TX]

The SW-12 is almost certain to outperform the Klipsch 12"s. I don't know for sure by how much, but I would guess around 3 to 4dB. The Klipsch subs will be tuned a bit deeper though, so may be able to get a bit more deep bass than the Monoprice sub.

This is really THE question for sure. In my mind the size of the performance gap is this most important factor but is not really possible to quantify. To say the monoprice will outperform the klipsch could mean lots of things. It could be it outperforms it by 90% output and frequency response, or it could outperform by 10%, or anything in between. And different ears may rate these gaps or scores differently. It’s all just so subjective. I really wonder if my untrained ears would be able to tell much difference. I guess if it is primarily a volume difference then I probably would but for me, I’ll never be wanting to turn it up to 10. Extreme Volume is not my concern.

 

[shadyJ]

You would definitely be able to tell the difference. The Monoprice sub will hit a lot harder. The question is how important is that difference to you.

 

[DJ in TX]

You would definitely be able to tell the difference. The Monoprice sub will hit a lot harder. The question is how important is that difference to you.

That’s a great question, I don’t really have a concept of what that is like. I just need 5 or 6 different subs in my house at the same time for a test drive lol.

In all seriousness I think I may just decide on something and order it maybe the Klipsch from Amazon and see what it sounds like in person so I know for myself and then return if I don’t line it. it’s weird because the mono price is not in stock and hasn’t been for a bit and I don’t really know what their plans are for more product availability

 

[Squishman]

I am a big Klipsch guy. Mostly vintage Klipsch. But now, even though I have three of them in various rooms, I wouldn't buy a Klipsch sub. My best sub by far (not even close) is my HSU VTF-2 MK5 subwoofer. I heard about it on this forum about 5 years ago. I cannot recall who suggested it. Wish I could! I recommend an HSU. https://hsuresearch.com/collections/collections-true-subwoofers-subset-collection

 

[kini]

That’s a great question, I don’t really have a concept of what that is like. I just need 5 or 6 different subs in my house at the same time for a test drive lol.

In all seriousness I think I may just decide on something and order it maybe the Klipsch from Amazon and see what it sounds like in person so I know for myself and then return if I don’t line it. it’s weird because the mono price is not in stock and hasn’t been for a bit and I don’t really know what their plans are for more product availability

The SW is in stock https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=41498

 

[DJ in TX]

I am a big Klipsch guy. Mostly vintage Klipsch. But now, even though I have three of them in various rooms, I wouldn't buy a Klipsch sub. My best sub by far (not even close) is my HSU VTF-2 MK5 subwoofer. I heard about it on this forum about 5 years ago. I cannot recall who suggested it. Wish I could! I recommend an HSU. https://hsuresearch.com/collections/collections-true-subwoofers-subset-collection

I appreciate the input, I’ve been told that before, to get HSU, SVS, Speedwoofer, etc, the problem is the price tag. I need to stay at around $250. I might go a bit higher for a great deal.

 

[DJ in TX]

The SW is in stock https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=41498

Ooh interesting, ok thanks for the heads up, I’ve been checking a lot lately with no luck. I had given up

 

[DJ in TX]

Ok stupid noob question time. Attaching a pic of the connections in the back of my receiver. I assume I use the subwoofer pre-out connector?
If so, what kind of cable/rating do I need for this to connect the monoprice?
Also, if I went with the klipsch instead, is it same cable?
Also, I see the “feet” of the sub are angled spikes, are these rubberized? Are they meant to lay against laminate flooring or do I need some kind of mat to put the sub on?

 

[Eppie]

Ok stupid noob question time. Attaching a pic of the connections in the back of my receiver. I assume I use the subwoofer pre-out connector?
If so, what kind of cable/rating do I need for this to connect the monoprice?
Also, if I went with the klipsch instead, is it same cable?
Also, I see the “feet” of the sub are angled spikes, are these rubberized? Are they meant to lay against laminate flooring or do I need some kind of mat to put the sub on?

Any good quality RCA cable will suffice. Just click on the link to the subwoofer and then type "subwoofer cable" in the search box and you'll see three options. Choose the length that will be appropriate for your room, allowing for some positioning changes to adjust for performance.

Could not find any details on the spikes on the web site or in the owners manual. They appear to be plastic or rubber from the photos. It's 50 lbs so you might want some small disks under the feet for laminate flooring unless the feet are rubber.

 

[Golfx]

Just a RCA subwoofer cable. Monoprice, Amazon and Blue jeans cables all carry those cables. They are standard. You do realize Audioholics principal speaker reviewer, James Larsan=@shadyj, is recommending the Monoprice over the less capable klipsch? So why would you sill purchase the inferior Klipsch?