Why is a dedicated DAC needed?

[pushkardighe]

Hi All,

There are so many high end and good quality receivers which are available which have high end DAC in them. But if we want to directly connect our Phone's USB out or USB out from a laptop/desktop to these receivers it does not work. I have checked manuals of couple of high end receivers and all they allow is a memory stick with stored audio files only.
The issue is that for listening lossless music from say Apple Music, we need to use a computer or phone. But if we do say AirPlay it still does not play the actual Hi-res. The only way to really play Hi-Res is to connect the computer or phone to an external DAC and then connect the DAC to receiver. This adds an unnecessary equipment and cost.
Is there any reason for this limitation? Is there any workaround? Please advise

Thank you,
Pushkar

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi All,

There are so many high end and good quality receivers which are available which have high end DAC in them. But if we want to directly connect our Phone's USB out or USB out from a laptop/desktop to these receivers it does not work. I have checked manuals of couple of high end receivers and all they allow is a memory stick with stored audio files only.
The issue is that for listening lossless music from say Apple Music, we need to use a computer or phone. But if we do say AirPlay it still does not play the actual Hi-res. The only way to really play Hi-Res is to connect the computer or phone to an external DAC and then connect the DAC to receiver. This adds an unnecessary equipment and cost.
Is there any reason for this limitation? Is there any workaround? Please advise

Thank you,
Pushkar

I have never really considered that before, as I have a DAC as I need one to be part of my DAW. I suspect the issue may be something to do with HDMI which receivers like to have in play for DRM reasons. Hi-Res Apple Music is a particular PITA and I cancelled my trial pronto, and that just about took an act of Congress to do that. They sure imbed their meathooks fast and deep into your flesh, that is for sure.

 

[Trebdp83]

Very few expensive AVRs are equipped with USB-B ports to accept audio signals. Most have USB-A ports for storage devices.

Apple made a mess of getting hi-res out from their devices. Some use the Camera adapter cable for iPhones to external DACs.

The HDMI port of my Mac mini M1 was finally released from 24/48 jail and 24/192 is now supported. I can now pass hi-res signals from Amazon Music, Apple Music, Qobuz and Tidal from my Mac to my receiver via HDMI cable.

 

[lovinthehd]

There is little/no reason to play the files at higher resolution generally on the other hand in terms of any actual audible differences, I believe I can stream hi res files via dlna/upnp to my avrs but not sure....not an apple person, tho.

 

[tonyE]

...

There are so many high end ... receivers which are available which have high end DAC in them.

But if we want to directly connect our Phone's USB out or USB out from a laptop/desktop to these receivers it does not work.

(1) There are NO "High End" receivers, period, none. There is no market in the High End for a receiver. Home Theater is not High End, btw. There are a precious few components, Trinov for example, that make truly great surround decoders, but Home Theater is NOT High End.

(2) Take android phone/tablet, buy an USB OTG cable, get a nice DAC, plug them together... have fun. Some of them have very good heaphone amps, others serve as preamps as well. Most sound a lot better than the AVRs.

 

[TLS Guy]

(1) There are NO "High End" receivers, period, none. There is no market in the High End for a receiver. Home Theater is not High End, btw. There are a precious few components, Trinov for example, that make truly great surround decoders, but Home Theater is NOT High End.

(2) Take android phone/tablet, buy an USB OTG cable, get a nice DAC, plug them together... have fun. Some of them have very good heaphone amps, others serve as preamps as well. Most sound a lot better than the AVRs.

What fossilized planet are you living on? AV rooms absolutely can be high end, and are capable of delivering the highest quality audio and a picture at the same tiime.

My room absolutely provides the highest fidelity. Dolby Atmos now has the capacity to create that you are there effect.

This room does just that, and provides a level of realism not possible with a two channel system.

This is a 7.2.4 room to Dolby specs, and powered by 18 amp channels totalling 3200 watts.

That is a transparent and highly accurate sound reproduction system and I have the measurements to prove it.

You are just so wrong. HT systems are the very foundation of advanced systems beyond two channel stereo. Properly engineered it delivers.

So, enough of your bilge already.

 

[lovinthehd]

OTOH this TonyE guy is somewhat amusing. Not very factual/accurate like his alleged familiarity with the digital world....

 

[tonyE]

What fossilized planet are you living on? AV rooms absolutely can be high end, and are capable of delivering the highest quality audio and a picture at the same tiime.

My room absolutely provides the highest fidelity. Dolby Atmos now has the capacity to create that you are there effect.

This room does just that, and provides a level of realism not possible with a two channel system.

This is a 7.2.4 room to Dolby specs, and powered by 18 amp channels totalling 3200 watts.

That is a transparent and highly accurate sound reproduction system and I have the measurements to prove it.

You are just so wrong. HT systems are the very foundation of advanced systems beyond two channel stereo. Properly engineered it delivers.

So, enough of your bilge already.

One of my DACs is an RME ADI-2 FS DAC. I use it to record records from my main set up -which is currently set up as LP12/Karousel/Trampolin/Lingo/Ittok/Grado Master 2, Clone First Watt Pearl 2 and Pearl 3 phono stages, over a CJ ET3SE preamp.... then it all goes out via Class A amps ( Aleph 2, Aleph 5, FW F4, FW SIT-3, ARC D70-II ) and Audio Note AN-K/LX or Magnepan 1.7s. I also have a pair of Entec MX5 woofers if I need more bass.

I also run a Burson Play with a variety of Burson OPAMPS... the stream is an Android tablet over USB-OTG.

The sound of that chain is quite close to what we get from our seats in a live performance at seats M21/22 orchestra.

Mind you, no audio recording will ever sound like the real thing... "measurements" are somewhat incomplete as we really don't quite yet know how to measure psychoacoustics. When my son had his band in the our garage, the power of the drum and the guitar amps was incredible. In the concert hall, the power of a symphony orchestra is incredible, the soundstage and depth are amazing, you don't hear the instruments, you hear the entire room acting up.

When I used to record bluegrass and chamber orchestra, back in the day, on location, we'd take the tapes back to the studio and we'd try to recreate the sound. We'd experiment with Teac/Tascam multichannel R2Rs and an 8 channel mixing board... at the studio we'd try to recreate the performance... it just wasn't the same we heard on location.

So, you see, I do know a bit about such things. I find that 2 channel can create an extremely good soundstage... and what drives me the most is how a system does the bass ( fast, tight ) and how shimmering the treble reproduction (like the drum kit and cymbals). I recently got a Schitt Syn and I'm setting it up in my office system with Acoustic Energy AE1s and Burning Amp ACA class A FET amps ( 8 wpc )... It reminds me of the old Fosgate system.

BTW: your argument would carry better if you would not use ad hominems... just stick to the argument, don't call me names "fossilized planet", "bilge"... please stick to the facts.

So, I find that most of the surround tracks nowadays are not made for audio realism, but for some kind of creative surround field. Which is fine for movies, but not for recreating the experience of a live performance.

As it turns out, the old Fosgate surround decoder, applied when the engineer was made with some ambience built it, as in using a Blumlein pair up front, maybe some spot mikes carefully panned and perhaps a mono rear ambience track, comes quite close. It is sad, as the experiments we did back in the day ( we were just coming out of the Quad fiasco ) showed us that a four channel recording could really present a very convincing soundstage facsimile of the real musical event... but reality didn't sell, only gimmicks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Why is a DAC needed?

Because Apple does what Apple does. They absolutely don't pay much attention to what makes sense, or would be convenient outside the Apple ecosystem. That is, Apple loves Apple loves Apple. If you aren't Apple, then... Apple! What's wrong with you thinking you shouldn't be Appleing?

I've seen this with certain manufacturers over the years that are so self-centric that they should mostly be avoided if your goal is to have them exist outside their own ecosystem in any meaningful way. Certainly no 'variable' way.

Yes, this is a very basic concept. A Lightning to HDMI adapter should have been their solution, and they most definitely should have this taken care of with the Apple TV products. There are some potential issues since their USB version has be 2.0 with some added limitations which has restricted things.

Not one of these things isn't in Apple's control to fix and correct. There is zero reason that you shouldn't just be able to get an Apple TV and have that be a proper solution. There's no reason the Lightning to HDMI adapter shouldn't be a proper solution. Or the new USB-C to HDMI adapter. Yet, here you are, being forced to buy a external solution which makes absolutely no sense.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hi All,

There are so many high end and good quality receivers which are available which have high end DAC in them. But if we want to directly connect our Phone's USB out or USB out from a laptop/desktop to these receivers it does not work. I have checked manuals of couple of high end receivers and all they allow is a memory stick with stored audio files only.
The issue is that for listening lossless music from say Apple Music, we need to use a computer or phone. But if we do say AirPlay it still does not play the actual Hi-res. The only way to really play Hi-Res is to connect the computer or phone to an external DAC and then connect the DAC to receiver. This adds an unnecessary equipment and cost.
Is there any reason for this limitation? Is there any workaround? Please advise

Thank you,
Pushkar

A wired solution with a DAC isn't the only way and there is a more elegant solution that doesn't even require an external DAC.
As you mentioned Apple's airplay is lossless and Denons (the only one I bothered checking, but not limited to) supports wireless airplay streaming. Any Denon AVR which has HEOS tech supports Airplay 2

https://support.denon.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/14867/

Just wire an AVR with airplay support to your home network and stream away wirelessly from your apple mobile devices.
The Only catch here, assuming your sender (iPhone) and the receiver (AVR) both support Airplay2 the best resolution you can get is 24/48, but ALAC compressed, which is apple's flavored FLAC.

 

[MrBoat]

One of my DACs is an RME ADI-2 FS DAC. I use it to record records from my main set up -which is currently set up as LP12/Karousel/Trampolin/Lingo/Ittok/Grado Master 2, Clone First Watt Pearl 2 and Pearl 3 phono stages, over a CJ ET3SE preamp.... then it all goes out via Class A amps ( Aleph 2, Aleph 5, FW F4, FW SIT-3, ARC D70-II ) and Audio Note AN-K/LX or Magnepan 1.7s. I also have a pair of Entec MX5 woofers if I need more bass.

I also run a Burson Play with a variety of Burson OPAMPS... the stream is an Android tablet over USB-OTG.

The sound of that chain is quite close to what we get from our seats in a live performance at seats M21/22 orchestra.

Mind you, no audio recording will ever sound like the real thing... "measurements" are somewhat incomplete as we really don't quite yet know how to measure psychoacoustics. When my son had his band in the our garage, the power of the drum and the guitar amps was incredible. In the concert hall, the power of a symphony orchestra is incredible, the soundstage and depth are amazing, you don't hear the instruments, you hear the entire room acting up.

When I used to record bluegrass and chamber orchestra, back in the day, on location, we'd take the tapes back to the studio and we'd try to recreate the sound. We'd experiment with Teac/Tascam multichannel R2Rs and an 8 channel mixing board... at the studio we'd try to recreate the performance... it just wasn't the same we heard on location.

So, you see, I do know a bit about such things. I find that 2 channel can create an extremely good soundstage... and what drives me the most is how a system does the bass ( fast, tight ) and how shimmering the treble reproduction (like the drum kit and cymbals). I recently got a Schitt Syn and I'm setting it up in my office system with Acoustic Energy AE1s and Burning Amp ACA class A FET amps ( 8 wpc )... It reminds me of the old Fosgate system.

BTW: your argument would carry better if you would not use ad hominems... just stick to the argument, don't call me names "fossilized planet", "bilge"... please stick to the facts.

So, I find that most of the surround tracks nowadays are not made for audio realism, but for some kind of creative surround field. Which is fine for movies, but not for recreating the experience of a live performance.

As it turns out, the old Fosgate surround decoder, applied when the engineer was made with some ambience built it, as in using a Blumlein pair up front, maybe some spot mikes carefully panned and perhaps a mono rear ambience track, comes quite close. It is sad, as the experiments we did back in the day ( we were just coming out of the Quad fiasco ) showed us that a four channel recording could really present a very convincing soundstage facsimile of the real musical event... but reality didn't sell, only gimmicks.

While I can appreciate your passion and experience with audio, there is a point where it can be way too much. In other words, I don't envy it even a little and I mean nothing against you personally. Having to consider all of that would be living in a state of perpetual madness. I started to get that way with full range driver systems and other eccentric goals, and it ended up becoming what amounted to a constant state of neurosis that caused me to take a rather lengthy break in which to reset. I came back on the scene roughly a decade later with an old, donated Scott amp, a pair of audibly low distortion 15" monkey coffins, and my old generic CD player from around 1985. Oddly enough, and with so much less, non-pedigreed equipment efforts, the band was still "in the room," and refreshingly so. I have been careful not to overdo it since.

Take any unwashed music lover and subject them to a pair of audibly low distortion speakers in a simple stereo fashion, with life-sized SPL, and they too, will swear that the "band is in the room." It's most often the first thing that comes out of their mouth. I swore to it too at my early introductions to stereo, and I was living happily ever after until some insatiate audiophile told me I was missing out on so much more.

Now I have a simple stereo near field setup, with a pair of beefy speakers and a pair of subs. It doesn't even matter which of my amps is driving them, Including my DIY F5, the little 8 watt Amp Camp mono blocks, Adcom GFA-5500, Icepower 200ASC, Fosi Audio BT30 pro, Fosi V3, Pioneer SA-8500 etc., and my old Denon AVR.

Even my workbench can deliver a realistic image standing point blank within 3ft of the speakers. It was so good in fact, that I didn't sit for 4 hrs. Just kept feeding music through the freshly restored Pioneer. Not trying to discourage or discount your efforts, but to just bring all of this back down to earth, so that newbs that might be reading these threads, can know that it doesn't take much these days to realize what amounts to 'audible' perfection. Otherwise we get people through here stoned on information overload just throwing money at everything they think they need.

This simple setup just pounds and makes ordinary people get visible chill bumps trying it.

 

[Trebdp83]

Airplay 2 works well and sounds fine. But, those wanting hi-res output will not get it. Weirdly, while Amazon Music allows for lossless 24/48 over Airplay 2, Apple Music is limited to 16/44.1 and Apple won’t confirm that it is actually lossy AAC from Apple Music over Airplay 2 using certain devices.

Is there really an audible difference that I can perceive? I cannot definitely say I can do so concerning Apple Music streams. Does that mean that those at Apple aren’t a$$holes for making hi-res from Apple Music so very difficult to output. I cannot definitely say that they aren’t so.

 

[tonyE]

While I can appreciate your passion and experience with audio, there is a point where it can be way too much. In other words, I don't envy it even a little and I mean nothing against you personally. Having to consider all of that would be living in a state of perpetual madness. I started to get that way with full range driver systems and other eccentric goals, and it ended up becoming what amounted to a constant state of neurosis that caused me to take a rather lengthy break in which to reset. I came back on the scene roughly a decade later with an old, donated Scott amp, a pair of audibly low distortion 15" monkey coffins, and my old generic CD player from around 1985. Oddly enough, and with so much less, non-pedigreed equipment efforts, the band was still "in the room," and refreshingly so. I have been careful not to overdo it since.

Take any unwashed music lover and subject them to a pair of audibly low distortion speakers in a simple stereo fashion, with life-sized SPL, and they too, will swear that the "band is in the room." It's most often the first thing that comes out of their mouth. I swore to it too at my early introductions to stereo, and I was living happily ever after until some insatiate audiophile told me I was missing out on so much more.

Now I have a simple stereo near field setup, with a pair of beefy speakers and a pair of subs. It doesn't even matter which of my amps is driving them, Including my DIY F5, the little 8 watt Amp Camp mono blocks, Adcom GFA-5500, Icepower 200ASC, Fosi Audio BT30 pro, Fosi V3, Pioneer SA-8500 etc., and my old Denon AVR.

Even my workbench can deliver a realistic image standing point blank within 3ft of the speakers. It was so good in fact, that I didn't sit for 4 hrs. Just kept feeding music through the freshly restored Pioneer. Not trying to discourage or discount your efforts, but to just bring all of this back down to earth, so that newbs that might be reading these threads, can know that it doesn't take much these days to realize what amounts to 'audible' perfection. Otherwise we get people through here stoned on information overload just throwing money at everything they think they need.

This simple setup just pounds and makes ordinary people get visible chill bumps trying it.

JBL horns?

I'm an audiophile, it's my hobby... there is never ENOUGH. (*) Well, there is... sorta... I backed off from driving a pair of stereo tube amps into two pair of english mini monitors. I figured it was a little too much...

But honestly, I don't show off my system to many people... maybe some nephews and nieces that are learning and setting up their stuff... the Raspberries seem to be making an impact! ;-) The might have been the great unwashed once, but not any more. They always knew about "good sound", they just hadn't been exposed to good "reproduced sound".

Now then, I don't think you understand where I'm coming from... I'm not one of them High Falutin' audiophiles with a six figure system... you know the type... Audio Jewelry... D'Agostinos, Wilson, Triple Signature Mk V cables... I think you and me are much alike... by your list of amps... btw, I built the Zenductors at BA23..

Dig it now? I too have a bench, read schematics, I can solder simple enough stuff... I admit that when it comes to the big amps I'll ask someone to help out.

As my wife said... " it sound like music, not a stereo system"...

My office... I sit within 3 feet of a pair of Acoustic Energy AE1s, currenty driven by a Nuforce DDA100. That's presents a near field experience where the back wall doesn't exist. These speakers sound really good too with the ACA 1.8 amps, the Mini, DIY F5 (**) even the new Zenductors I built at BA23... They are designed for near field.

My main system... well, it is complicated... lot of stuff... but it's my toy.

My nearest comparison to your home office, is my bedroom system which is currently set up with a fully restored Marantz 2235 and ADS L810s. Sometimes I'll set it up with a Sansui G7500... also fully restored.

EDIT:

But it is vintage... very good vintage, but it still lacks. It has a poor soundstage. Getting new audiophiles into the hobby with wildly overpriced vintage that will require extensive restoration is not right.

Instead, for a new audiophile, a simple system with a pair of something like active speakers and a nice DAC/preamp front end is likely the entry point. Use the smart phone ( Android I hope ) as the source/streamer... companies like Schitt and Audioengine come to mind. At some point, a dedicated android tablet ( on sale now at Costco for 200 bucks ) can be added with a USB-OTG cable so the phone is no longer involved. And a subwoofer

For about 1000 bucks, a new comer into audio can put together a very good sounding system.

(*) Did you know there is a hidden protection circuit in the Babelfish SIT amp? Mine has smoked... twice.

(**) If your preamp swings 20V, try the F4. Mine is also DIY. The DIY F5 is a little too big to sit on the desk...

Oh, I tried to post a picture... file is too large...

 

[isolar8001]

Oh, I tried to post a picture... file is too large...

Let me figure out a consulting fee, and I can talk you through downsizing that picture to acceptable parameters for posting.

 

[tonyE]

Let me figure out a consulting fee, and I can talk you through downsizing that picture to acceptable parameters for posting.

I hope you are not being condescending here... I see too many people in this site attempting to use ridicule when it reality they just bare their lack of manners.

I can do all of that.

Today, many sites will automatically downsize the pictures when they are uploaded. It's been quite a while I've seen a web site that doesn't offer the feature. These are pictures taken with my cell phone not the DSLR.

For example... DIYAudio.com

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I hope you are not being condescending here... I see too many people in this site attempting to use ridicule when it reality they just bare their lack of manners.

I can do all of that.

Today, many sites will automatically downsize the pictures when they are uploaded. It's been quite a while I've seen a web site that doesn't offer the feature. These are pictures taken with my cell phone not the DSLR.

For example... DIYAudio.com

Well, I don’t have much for manners, but I do know the size restrictions on pics is stoopid, and is a problem for many. I mostly use Tapatalk for iOS forum manager which allows you to easily choose file size.

 

[MrBoat]

JBL horns?

I'm an audiophile, it's my hobby... there is never ENOUGH. (*) Well, there is... sorta... I backed off from driving a pair of stereo tube amps into two pair of english mini monitors. I figured it was a little too much...

But honestly, I don't show off my system to many people... maybe some nephews and nieces that are learning and setting up their stuff... the Raspberries seem to be making an impact! ;-) The might have been the great unwashed once, but not any more. They always knew about "good sound", they just hadn't been exposed to good "reproduced sound".

Now then, I don't think you understand where I'm coming from... I'm not one of them High Falutin' audiophiles with a six figure system... you know the type... Audio Jewelry... D'Agostinos, Wilson, Triple Signature Mk V cables... I think you and me are much alike... by your list of amps... btw, I built the Zenductors at BA23..

Dig it now? I too have a bench, read schematics, I can solder simple enough stuff... I admit that when it comes to the big amps I'll ask someone to help out.

As my wife said... " it sound like music, not a stereo system"...

My office... I sit within 3 feet of a pair of Acoustic Energy AE1s, currenty driven by a Nuforce DDA100. That's presents a near field experience where the back wall doesn't exist. These speakers sound really good too with the ACA 1.8 amps, the Mini, DIY F5 (**) even the new Zenductors I built at BA23... They are designed for near field.

My main system... well, it is complicated... lot of stuff... but it's my toy.

My nearest comparison to your home office, is my bedroom system which is currently set up with a fully restored Marantz 2235 and ADS L810s. Sometimes I'll set it up with a Sansui G7500... also fully restored.

EDIT:

But it is vintage... very good vintage, but it still lacks. It has a poor soundstage. Getting new audiophiles into the hobby with wildly overpriced vintage that will require extensive restoration is not right.

Instead, for a new audiophile, a simple system with a pair of something like active speakers and a nice DAC/preamp front end is likely the entry point. Use the smart phone ( Android I hope ) as the source/streamer... companies like Schitt and Audioengine come to mind. At some point, a dedicated android tablet ( on sale now at Costco for 200 bucks ) can be added with a USB-OTG cable so the phone is no longer involved. And a subwoofer

For about 1000 bucks, a new comer into audio can put together a very good sounding system.

(*) Did you know there is a hidden protection circuit in the Babelfish SIT amp? Mine has smoked... twice.

(**) If your preamp swings 20V, try the F4. Mine is also DIY. The DIY F5 is a little too big to sit on the desk...

Oh, I tried to post a picture... file is too large...

Not a home office. My desktop system is at the end of my living room. I have a sofa on either side of me. My computer desk is around 40" from the end wall, across the narrow dimension of the rectangle. Those speakers are the from the late Jeff Bagby/diysoundgroup F-12 Tempests. I am a fan of JBL, though, and these speakers to me, are somewhat in essence of a JBL style monitor and is why I chose the kit, along with a . IIRC, the F3 is around 40hz. They are accompanied by a pair of Dayton RSS subs. Both speakers and subs are clad in the same cherry veneer.

Amps are in a furniture type TV stand right in front of my desk. I can turn the sub amp on with my toe and DSP on the fly from the desktop. I only use the subs for music, low passed at 50hz. There is also an older Denon 3805 AVR. Pre HDMI. I use it because I have a lot of different speakers that I put in rotation and it will drive anything. It worked so well I got a 2nd one. I have $75 total invested in the both of them.

I get the specialized equipment approach, but beyond a certain point, nobody is really wrong, if they like it, regardless of what they use and as long as they're not trying to hoodwink someone into buying it. AVRs are certainly good enough. Best? Sometimes. If they weren't capable for music, I would not use them. I have too many other choices. Hell, as it stands, I feel like the Maytag repairman every time black Friday comes along, or any of the other shopping holidays. I'm interested in new stuff and upgrading, but this stuff is still too good and I'd basically be going sideways.

DACs. Even the one on the PC motherboard was not to be the weak link of my system. Certainly handled dialog/vocals well enough. Turns out, I'm at the mercy of the recording engineers and what equipment and facilities they have, and if they're getting paid enough. That, and my room. Otherwise, good recordings sound flawless, which is how I know that recording quality is the last deciding factor. I could finish off the experience by just spending some more time with EQ vs recordings.

I recently installed the Topping E30 II lite. It's better, but now I'm used to it just like all tweaks before.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think Tony is more into what he thinks of as "vintage" audio gear.....

 

[MrBoat]

I think Tony is more into what he thinks of as "vintage" audio gear.....

Everybody is into their own ways eventually. Vintage to me, is where I started personally. As much as I dig it, I'm only willing to give it one chance at a second life or a single resurrection. That means my vintage is now getting too old for me to be willing to invest much in it, never mind pay the collectors and hoarders prices for it on the used market. My vintage amps are now novelties that I don't feel easy about putting back into full time use or as a main system, unless it was all I had.

I just think tony E. has nobody to talk to about this stuff. I admit, audiophiles in my circles are rare, and of the 4.5 that remain, I 'was' the only 2-channel, music only head with vintage gear and who works on/builds his own electronics or built his own speakers. My friends kind of think I'm a little kooky with it and really don't want to know all of the details, more than once. Is also why TLS posts photos of his setup and talks about it as much as he does too. Used to be a time when this was much more social in an IRL sense.

As the internet age progresses, there is very little new news to uncover. We've used most of what once underground comparatively, up. I remember when I started here at AH. I was on a second roll and at the beginning of a new audio life. While I was building it, the goal at the end was pretty far away and that anticipation was strong. Now that it's essentially complete, it's kind of hard to come down from all that to just listening to the system, while the other alternative is just to do what everyone else is currently.

Is like when someone new to a forum tells how they got started in audio. As unique as they think their story must be, it ends up being relatively the same as everyone else's, other than perhaps brand names or economic classes.

I'm guilty of it too, noted by my participation here at times, rattling on, just like with this post.

 

[tonyE]

Not a home office. ... Those speakers are the from the late Jeff Bagby/diysoundgroup F-12 Tempests. I am a fan of JBL, though, and these speakers to me, are somewhat in essence of a JBL style monitor and is why I chose the kit, along with a . IIRC, the F3 is around 40hz. They are accompanied by a pair of Dayton RSS subs. Both speakers and subs are clad in the same cherry veneer.

Amps are in a furniture type TV stand right in front of my desk. I can turn the sub amp on with my toe and DSP on the fly from the desktop. I only use the subs for music, low passed at 50hz. There is also an older Denon 3805 AVR. Pre HDMI. I use it because I have a lot of different speakers that I put in rotation and it will drive anything. It worked so well I got a 2nd one. I have $75 total invested in the both of them.

... I feel like the Maytag repairman every time black Friday comes along, or any of the other shopping holidays. I'm interested in new stuff and upgrading, but this stuff is still too good and I'd basically be going sideways.

DACs. Even the one on the PC motherboard was not to be the weak link of my system. Certainly handled dialog/vocals well enough. Turns out, I'm at the mercy of the recording engineers and what equipment and facilities they have, and if they're getting paid enough. That, and my room. Otherwise, good recordings sound flawless, which is how I know that recording quality is the last deciding factor. I could finish off the experience by just spending some more time with EQ vs recordings.

I recently installed the Topping E30 II lite. It's better, but now I'm used to it just like all tweaks before.

Those horn'd JBLs do sound good... much better than the L100s which I always thought were a commercial sell out.

I got a portable Topping DAC... with a built in battery! It's actually quite good sounding, does 24/96 and more, got it on an online Drop deal. I plug it into my Android cell phone via a USB OTG dongle. I got a a Tidal HiFi subscription and 512GB of secondary flash in the phone. I put some velcro so I can hold both DAC and phone together in my pocket. Very convenient and eeery listening to Frank Sinatra while I'm out on a walk.

In the main system I run a Burson Play, which I got on sale years ago for 300 bucks! Then I went and bought the upgraded discrete opamps... a pair of each run about 140, on sale... so I got a few to roll and play with. The DAC sounds good, the opamps are fun.

I also got an RME ADI2 Pro, but that's an ADAC... waaaay more I need, but I got it used with low miles, so I couldn't resists... it's actually a full DAC/preamp ( just like the Burson ) but I only run it as a "digital tape deck".

Anyhow, the little Topping sounds awesome over headphones... and it's also really good to power up those small flea amps when I'm testing something. The whole thing... small speakers, DAC, phone, cables, amp, all fit nicely in a little corner.

It's interesting that while a lot of chinese stuff is not very good sounding, there are a few companies that do take care, such as Topping and Oppo, and do fantastic work. It's sad how Oppo got killed by the video/audio licensing schema.

Remote foot control... hmm.. that's new. Is that Right Foot or Left Foot... Do you do it with Reference Silk socks or the Uber Signature Cotton Socks MkII?