The never ending rabbit hole....What Avr would you recommend for my setup? Marantz, Denon, Sony, Anthem, Yamaha, Integra, Emotiva or??????

[Kleinst]

Only risk I can see is if too many people don't feel a connection or worst yet don't feel too welcome, they simply won't come and post here and there will be very little activity for us to enjoy together. It is a two way street though so the people asking the questions also should be respectful too and open to others ideas. I also understand we all won't agree and I know too that people like me might be less of a technical expert than others.

I'm thankful that all the regulars have been very helpful to me and for the most part very considerate. Any sarcasm I receive is generally ok because of the relationship built through other posts.

 

[Danzilla31]

Look it reminds of Metallica in they're documentary after they had become rich and famous. They were having a meeting and one guy wants all these rules being done I mean everything micromanaged. One member says f this!!! I'm in a rock band I didn't fall in love with rock and roll to follow the rules!

Or like when @gene puts out a new item that's expensive and you always gotta have that one kill joy that sits they're and goes well for that price I could get 20 of these and blah blah blah blah.

I mean whatever happened to looking at that article and going damn I may not do that but that's frickin cool.

Whatever happened to telling the newbie you know what buy that item I think you shouldn't here's why but if you want too that's friggin cool come back and post a thread with pics on how you like it!!!

Don't you guys remember that first moment when you bought your first crappy college speakers but it sounded so awesome compared to that sh$tty TV or jukebox radio? Don't you remember that frickin feeling when you first fell in love with this cool a$$ hobby we have?

What have we become the goddang audio police or something? What ever happened to just having fun helping your homies blow they're money even if they could do better cus let's face it they're probably not going to listen to you anyway they gotta learn for themselves. Whatever happened to audio just being cool? Because I still think it is.

I mean @TLS Guy you build gigantic specialized subwoofers in your house man. You realize how frickin awesome that is? Newbies look up to you man I feel you have an opportunity to really reach new guys but let's face it you can come across a little rough in your approach sometimes

Anyways I'm done this dude has already obviously left the building so it is what it is. If he wasn't a troll we just lost a new guy that loves JBL speakers. I love friggin JBL speakers man. I feel like I lost a new potential bromance or something. Love you guys always I'm out for the night.

 

[lovinthehd]

Look it reminds of Metallica in they're documentary after they had become rich and famous. They were having a meeting and one guy wants all these rules being done I mean everything micromanaged. One member says f this!!! I'm in a rock band I didn't fall in love with rock and roll to follow the rules!

Or like when @gene puts out a new item that's expensive and you always gotta have that one kill joy that sits they're and goes well for that price I could get 20 of these and blah blah blah blah.

I mean whatever happened to looking at that article and going damn I may not do that but that's frickin cool.

Whatever happened to telling the newbie you know what buy that item I think you shouldn't here's why but if you want too that's friggin cool come back and post a thread with pics on how you like it!!!

Don't you guys remember that first moment when you bought your first crappy college speakers but it sounded so awesome compared to that sh$tty TV or jukebox radio? Don't you remember that frickin feeling when you first fell in love with this cool a$$ hobby we have?

What have we become the goddang audio police or something? What ever happened to just having fun helping your homies blow they're money even if they could do better cus let's face it they're probably not going to listen to you anyway they gotta learn for themselves. Whatever happened to audio just being cool? Because I still think it is.

I mean @TLS Guy you build gigantic specialized subwoofers in your house man. You realize how frickin awesome that is? Newbies look up to you man I feel you have an opportunity to really reach new guys but let's face it you can come across a little rough in your approach sometimes

Anyways I'm done this dude has already obviously left the building so it is what it is. If he wasn't a troll we just lost a new guy that loves JBL speakers. I love friggin JBL speakers man. I feel like I lost a new potential bromance or something. Love you guys always I'm out for the night.

This "beginner" isn't exactly of that nature (yeah I know I said I was outta here, but haven't turned notifications off yet ). I'd rather not just encourage people to think every brand, and every model within the brand, has particular sound signatures as I have not found that remotely accurate (altho with poor protocols who knows). We are somewhat policing good practice in choosing gear, so expecting drastic differences in audible qualities among various electronics might be policed somewhat....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

And I definitely picked up on who was easy to talk to and who wasn't

I’m easy baby.

 

[lovinthehd]

I’m easy baby.

Unless you emit a stream of fukkkkks.

 

[Danzilla31]

Unless you emit a stream of fukkkkks.

That's why he's easy
Ahhhhhh there's a reason we call him Dirty Will around here

 

[PENG]

Only risk I can see is if too many people don't feel a connection or worst yet don't feel too welcome, they simply won't come and post here and there will be very little activity for us to enjoy together. It is a two way street though so the people asking the questions also should be respectful too and open to others ideas. I also understand we all won't agree and I know too that people like me might be less of a technical expert than others.

I'm thankful that all the regulars have been very helpful to me and for the most part very considerate. Any sarcasm I receive is generally ok because of the relationship built through other posts.

Nicely written, straight to the points, thank you!

 

[PENG]

Look man I work in psychiatric nursing and the most important thing we learn in there is customer service.

So you came to us needing some help. Our customer service to you was to tell you that your ears are unreliable and the data says this and if we double blind stuff it should tell you that. Basically trying to tell you how you are mistaken and you should just stick with this or that.

From what I can tell we have given you poor customer service and for that I apologize

This is something that has been pissing me off for a long time. We have article after article stating that this hobby needs to grow. And I've seen time after time newcomers come in and get pissed off because they're basic questions aren't being answered and we hit them up so much with the science they feel talked down to and then they get defensive and they leave.

How about we just try and answer his f$&cking questions and let him know if he likes the Marantz 50 if the Marantz 40 is worth it to upgrade to?

Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the numbers we forget that it comes across just as abrasive when you hit someonet upside the head with the facts as much as audiophiles spooling this 5000 dollar cable sounds better then this 100 dollar one nonsense. Sometimes facts do care about your feelings no pun intended.

Some of us could work on our bedside manner in here to be honest. Do you think it helps my psych patient to start off our relationship telling him he's wrong even if I'm right? No it usually would get me punched in the face. But if I meet his needs and build a good relationship from there if I do need to show them something or give them my viewpoint it usually works a lot better

On that note I will try my best to answer your question. I'm going to look up your 2 sets of JBL speakers and I might have a couple quick questions about your room and seating distances to help me better answer if you don't mind

Imo, you made valid points, and as I said we should all do better in trying to help support/promote this wonderful hobby. (I actually did try to help in this case as you know, but should have avoided the little sarcasm in between).

I would still say it is a 2-way streets. In that sense, I am sure you also understand why some of us reacted the way we did, and keep in mind the very same members had also done things (over the years) like extending welcome to new members, explaining the rationale of the responses, when questioned, etc. etc., so again, sometime it boiled down to, to every action there is reaction and such reaction is not going to just follow Newton's 3rd law either, so how negative it could get could be a case of tmmv (t=their)...

Still, you may be on the optimistic side, but you are absolutely right from the >10,000 ft level. So, I, for one will try harder in avoiding, or at least be sensitive about sarcasm, prior to or in between responding to members requests for help of any kinds.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Unless you emit a stream of fukkkkks.

Well sometimes that’s what it takes I guess.

 

[fmw]

I believe in my ears, and I know that amps, preamps, and dacs have a sound signature of their own regardless what anyone says.

Then you should consider abandoning that belief. I'll consider that advice rejected.

 

[Kleinst]

Then you should consider abandoning that belief. I'll consider that advice rejected.

Legit question, how easy is it for most people to get two devices to the same levels for which to compare without hearing any influences from EQ or room correction or exact amp gain levels etc? Having the patience to get there (or know how) might cause people to use their ears/experiences and not have a more fair apples to apples comparison

 

[mono-bloc]

The question we should be asking is Home Theater coming to an end. The parent company of Onkyo/Pioneer and Marantz/Denon have both suffered significant financial losses of late. While Marantz/Denon have been the brands for H/T for some years but have been sold to the medical company, Masimo. No doubt for tax reasons. At the moment the American market is relatively small compared to the European market and the Middle East. Where all the big money products go. Your average H/T store is only stocking big screens and sound bars. No wires, no mess, All neat and tidy The days of a wide range of AVR is long gone

 

[TLS Guy]

The question we should be asking is Home Theater coming to an end. The parent company of Onkyo/Pioneer and Marantz/Denon have both suffered significant financial losses of late. While Marantz/Denon have been the brands for H/T for some years but have been sold to the medical company, Masimo. No doubt for tax reasons. At the moment the American market is relatively small compared to the European market and the Middle East. Where all the big money products go. Your average H/T store is only stocking big screens and sound bars. No wires, no mess, All neat and tidy The days of a wide range of AVR is long gone

The future of HT deserves a thread of its own. Suffice to say, that unless things radically change you will be correct. The only system is geared and wedded to hopelessly out of date systems and organizations. There are much better higher quality scalable options that modern design and technology could embrace. The first item to ditch is the AVR, and I'm not surprised they are money loosers.
I think this drive back to vinyl and turntables speaks to all of this.
Yes, this definitely requires a thread. Lastly how do you know those parent companies are loosing money?

 

[mono-bloc]

The future of HT deserves a thread of its own.

So instead of criticising, start one

The first item to ditch is the AVR, and I'm not surprised they are money losers.

You only have to look at Hi- Fi / Audio outlets, and the lack of stocks held, Young people these days don't want a static system, there far to busy with there heads stuck in there phones, what with correcting the woes of the world or downloading Tic-Toc, together with a range of music downloads

I think this drive back to vinyl and turntables speaks to all of this.

The younger generation have never grown up with vinyl records it's something completly new to them, Before you know it there will be portable turntables / players available.. I can remember many many years ago and added attraction was a turntable player fitted to cars, A bit like the fad of 8 track players

Lastly how do you know those parent companies are loosing money?

Just look at the range of products there stocking, When did you last see a range of AVR's from low cost to high cost, and asking for an integrated amp or power amp is a thing of the past.. Just look at the audio outlets in your country. Most towns and cities had a Hi-Fi outlet, Even some of your Best Buy's stores are closing. In Australia we had Sanity Music selling CD's and DVD's of all types and styles. The complete chain has closed down and only have internet sales. JB Hi-Fi had a huge range of CD's and DVD's now greatly reduced There selling a few high priced Vinyl records and there AVR range has been reduced to big screens and soundbars.

Talking of Vinyl, which we are not, But a little idea of what's happening AudiogoN has an add for 8000 vinyl records at a cost of 100 thousand dollars, who knows if it will sell. He's reduced the price from 12500 dollars, and is requesting offers. The outcome will be interesting.

 

[PENG]

Legit question, how easy is it for most people to get two devices to the same levels for which to compare without hearing any influences from EQ or room correction or exact amp gain levels etc? Having the patience to get there (or know how) might cause people to use their ears/experiences and not have a more fair apples to apples comparison

To people like us on Audioholics.com, that is likely the case, but I think the vast majority of the regular HT users don't even think much about comparing, but just read marketing information (mostly online too). So they get influenced, preconditioned to hear things that are not there if they don't know which product they are listening to.

As I and many have cited examples of how they thought they heard something, purely because of "bias" in various form. Sometimes even after a good clean up job around the house, music sound cleaner, more musical. I really believe marketing info of the products have greater effect in making people think how one device "sounds" better, or at least different than another, even in cases where such products (use amps as example) being compared are designed to sound transparent and measurements confirmed transparency.

 

[Eppie]

To people like us on Audioholics.com, that is likely the case, but I think the vast majority of the regular HT users don't even think much about comparing, but just read marketing information (mostly online too). So they get influenced, preconditioned to hear things that are not there if they don't know which product they are listening to.

As I and many have cited examples of how they thought they heard something, purely because of "bias" in various form. Sometimes even after a good clean up job around the house, music sound cleaner, more musical. I really believe marketing info of the products have greater effect in making people think how one device "sounds" better, or at least different than another, even in cases where such products (use amps as example) being compared are designed to sound transparent and measurements confirmed transparency.

I think that relates to why some YouTube channels like Andrew Robinson, Jay's Iyagi and Steve Guttenberg are popular. Much of the subjective comments amounts to little more than marketing wrapped up in a nice package. I have to admit that I still find the occasional video from Andrew and Jay entertaining but have to laugh at some of the descriptive language that they try to use. Of interesting note, though, is that they both are starting to include REW measurements with some of their speaker reviews. I'd be curious to know what prompted that decision. Erin only has 37k subscribers but maybe more people are starting to see the value in objective measurements. Erin also has a good knack for explaining why a speaker sounds the way it does and how to compensate for it.

 

[fmw]

Legit question, how easy is it for most people to get two devices to the same levels for which to compare without hearing any influences from EQ or room correction or exact amp gain levels etc? Having the patience to get there (or know how) might cause people to use their ears/experiences and not have a more fair apples to apples comparison

The problem is hearing bias. When we know what we are hearing our preferences and bias affect our reaction what we hear. We could compare two things that have identical sound or lack of sound and still hear differences if we allow our biases to play. If we eliminate the bias with blind testing, we can get true results.

Understand that it is OK to have preferences and to make sighted comparisons. It just isn't likely to be accurate if the actual sonic differences are subtle or non existent. Perhaps it doesn't matter. I've been through the process of biased controlled comparisons and they can be an eye opener. They can actually dash treasured beliefs. It is a fussy process and I don't recommend it for that reason.

My comment is just trying to help a fellow audio lover save money when I know from all that testing that it doesn't matter sonicially which one he chooses.

AV receivers like solid state amplifiers sound about the same as long as no digital processing is in effect. If you enable the processing then a blind test will show that they sound different just like a sighted comparison will. The amps don't mess much with the signal so any differences would be subtle to non existent. The processing, of course, creates obvious differences so bias doesn't affect the comparison.

An example is he voices of people you know. You can recognize the voice of each of those people. The reason is that the sonic differences are clear and your bias doesn't get in the way. Compare two DAC's and every difference you hear is filled with bias. Don't let any of this get in the way of enjoying your HiFi or home theater.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Dump denon/marantz. Integra drx 8.4, sony es upper tier line, arcam, anthem avm70 / 1140, audio control, nad. These are the brands u should be looking into and trying to listen to if u want to hear and have a system that just impresses u and everyone else. Denon/marantz is best buy level gear. Here if u go to a custom av shop and ask for denon u will be laughed out the building. I had denon avr in the last theater its what I could afford at the time. My new theater I have the integra drx 8.4 and I know now I should have jumped ship from denon sooner. I'm using the same speakers and now there open, crazy amount of detail that I was missing, when I got the new integra I opened it day one and looked around. Everything they listed and more I found inside this unit. Denon/marantz likes to hide what chips they use and delete your emails and questions. I tried for months to talk to them about the c40. Also I install anthem avr's in customers homes and there build quality is pretty amazing. Super easy set up and arc is beast mods for calibration.

 

[fmw]

Dump denon/marantz. Integra drx 8.4, sony es upper tier line, arcam, anthem avm70 / 1140, audio control, nad. These are the brands u should be looking into and trying to listen to if u want to hear and have a system that just impresses u and everyone else. Denon/marantz is best buy level gear. Here if u go to a custom av shop and ask for denon u will be laughed out the building. I had denon avr in the last theater its what I could afford at the time. My new theater I have the integra drx 8.4 and I know now I should have jumped ship from denon sooner. I'm using the same speakers and now there open, crazy amount of detail that I was missing, when I got the new integra I opened it day one and looked around. Everything they listed and more I found inside this unit. Denon/marantz likes to hide what chips they use and delete your emails and questions. I tried for months to talk to them about the c40. Also I install anthem avr's in customers homes and there build quality is pretty amazing. Super easy set up and arc is beast mods for calibration.

Which chips do you prefer?

 

[ssmokeyy]

Depends on what part were talking about but for dac I like ess brand. I'm so picky I just got a anthem amp and have taking it apart and change all the caps in it.