Question about household wiring

[Swerd]

Hey Kurt, great to hear from you. I'm glad to see you're doing well, and I'm especially glad to know your baritone sax playing is better than ever.

Now that you know what temperature range to look for (thanks @-Jim- ), you can use your handheld IR gun to map out any hotpots on your circuit breaker panel.

For what it's worth, you can also map it out quick & dirty with a few temperature indicating crayons. They're wax pens that melt at a defined temperature. Back in the 1990s (the previous century), I used to use them in complex bioreactors to find any cold spots (<100°C) during steam sterilization of interior pipes. Draw a line with the crayon when the surface is cold, allow it to heat up, and look to see if & when the wax melts.

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Or, you can go whole hog and get one of these thermal imaging cameras.

Your handheld IR gun is probably the easiest way.

 

[-Jim-]

Yeah, I have one of the gun/thermometers with a laser, so I will use that.

I don't know what makes imaging equipment qualify as "good", but for infrequent use, you can buy one of these from Amazon for $250. The price seems too cheap, but I don't know how much money is saved by using a phone (or, even better, an 8"-12" tablet) to provide the display and (I assume) conversion from camera output to image. Klein is a company I respect (though they may have been bought or otherwise changed their quality standards for all I know). Thoughts?

Klein Thermal Imaging Camera for Phone/Tablet

IMHO a "good" Thermal Imaging device is reasonably accurate, and can provide enough detail to pick out hot (or cold) spots easily. It also helps if it's simple to use. (The Pro stuff we used in my past life was not easy to use, but the results were certifiable to national standards at the time. Insurance Companies for the Industrial Clients wanted that traceability. ) The knocks I see on the Klein device is the resolution is a bit fuzzy (it'll look worse on a Tablet as the 100 x 100 resolution spreads out to fill the larger screen) and you may not like the Klein watermark that is on every photo. I certainly wouldn't buy one just to scan my Panel, and then get put away in a drawer.

Buying one of these cameras is sort of like Audio Equipment. You can pay a little to just get started, but cost wise it becomes logarithmic quite quickly as you move up the quality scale. So you need to find out what works for you. I'd just try your Infrared Thermometer / Digital Laser Gun and see how it goes if I wanted to do my Panel.

First I'd take a digital photo of the Panel with the cover removed so you could see the connections. (Shut off the main breaker) Then on a laptop, edit the photo using Snip or Snag-it (or something similar) to record the data as I shoot it on the photo in text boxes with the main breaker on for a while to allow any "bad" connections to heat up.

If you really want to try an imaging camera, you could rent one for a day locally.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[KEW]

IMHO a "good" Thermal Imaging device is reasonably accurate, and can provide enough detail to pick out hot (or cold) spots easily. It also helps if it's simple to use. (The Pro stuff we used in my past life was not easy to use, but the results were certifiable to national standards at the time. Insurance Companies for the Industrial Clients wanted that traceability. ) The knocks I see on the Klein device is the resolution is a bit fuzzy (it'll look worse on a Tablet as the 100 x 100 resolution spreads out to fill the larger screen) and you may not like the Klein watermark that is on every photo. I certainly wouldn't buy one just to scan my Panel, and then get put away in a drawer.

Buying one of these cameras is sort of like Audio Equipment. You can pay a little to just get started, but cost wise it becomes logarithmic quite quickly as you move up the quality scale. So you need to find out what works for you. I'd just try your Infrared Thermometer / Digital Laser Gun and see how it goes if I wanted to do my Panel.

First I'd take a digital photo of the Panel with the cover removed so you could see the connections. (Shut off the main breaker) Then on a laptop, edit the photo using Snip or Snag-it (or something similar) to record the data as I shoot it on the photo in text boxes with the main breaker on for a while to allow any "bad" connections to heat up.

If you really want to try an imaging camera, you could rent one for a day locally.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks, good info.

I have done a touch test with the panel cover still on (of course!) and there were no noticeably warm spots (probably 55 degrees in my garage). I will remove the cover and get more specific, but the stupid-simple approach was too easy not to have done it immediately. I know I could certainly still have issues behind the cover!

I like cool gadgets and the infrared camera/software is cool stuff. If you told me that looked pretty nice, I might have justified it on the basis that $250 is cheap for a safety issue (but not as cheap as $0 for something I already have).

 

[KEW]

If you really want to try an imaging camera, you could rent one for a day locally.

Interesting, where would you find such a rental? Home Depot or a more specialized business?

 

[-Jim-]

I know Home Depot rents some basic ones, but you may find some others at your local tool rental shop. Remember, this won't help you with your initial question about your lighting circuit.

And IMHO, you are unlikely to find a significant hotspot in your panel. But if you do it, you may find peace of mind.

If you really want to do maintenance there, I'd turn off the main breaker. Remove the cover. Then torque every connection point (other than the main breaker) in the panel. Over time these connection points can come a bit loose. You just need them snug. Then I'd exercise every breaker in the panel by turning it off and on a couple of times at no load (with the main breaker still off). Breakers can stick if left in one position for years and years, and fail to trip when needed. The power system here is very reliable and often it's years between outages. So when there is an outage, I typically use that time to exercise the breakers in my Main & Sub Panels. I include the Main Breaker as it is off line then.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[KEW]

Just an update.
This has fallen off of my to-do list until I get back for Mexico in early March.

 

[ryanosaur]

Just an update.
This has fallen off of my to-do list until I get back for Mexico in early March.

Safe travels!

 

[-Jim-]

Just an update.
This has fallen off of my to-do list until I get back for Mexico in early March.

Have Fun but be safe. I'm heading that way in April.

 

[Alex2507]

Stay home so I don’t gotta worry.

Okay?

 

[diwit]

Hey guys, I am replacing a fluorescent overhead kitchen light that quit working.
I assume the ballast went out, but I was kind of looking for an excuse to replace it anyway.

When I apply a multimeter, I get ~36VAC when both of the wall switches are off!
I do get 0V when the circuit breaker is off and 122.5V when the wall switch is on.

So the question is what would cause there to be 36VAC when the wall switches are off?

Is this likely to be the source of failure of the old light fixture (I did try replacing the bulbs, but no luck)?

Miscellaneous:
The new light fixture I plan to install is an Artika Skylight ultra thin LED panel, FWIW. It allows for a dimmable controller, although that will come later if at all. However, I am concerned that 36V may be enough to run the light at a lower level (which would not be a big problem as it would probably make a good night light ... as long as it is safe)!
My house is ~16 years old.
Georgia - Atl. metro area has not invested in hiring more building inspectors as Atlanta has boomed over the past several decades, so don't assume things were done right during construction. If it worked initially, that is all a builder is worried about, the inspection is pretty much a "drive-by".
I have experienced this once before in an older house (50+ years with screw in fuses at the panel), but I did not worry about it after an electrician said it is not uncommon with older homes and if it was him, he would not mess with it Salesforce Cloud Partners Manchester. I was replacing overhead light with Ceiling Fan/Light.
As far as my own competence, I am a dude with a Black & Decker Complete Guide to Home Wiring book, but do not see a "Troubleshooting" section. I did successfully install a 240V sub-panel when I got a 240V Powermatic lathe, so I'm good pretty at following directions!

TIA!

Cheers,
Kurt

Hi! I don't know if this is the wrong place to post this.. if so, sorry. I'm hoping someone here can help me.. I'm trying to install a dimmer switch in my dining room, which previously had a regular lightswitch. So, inside the wall box, there are two bundles of wires. One has black, red, white, and bare wires, the other has black, white, and bare. I'm assuming the white is neutral, and bare is ground. Anyway, the configuration looks to be a 3-way switch, but there isn't another switch that controls this fixture. SO.. I wired the switch according to the instructions for the 3-way, since this was the only wiring configuration that had the 4/3 wires in the wall box. I should add that the dimmer switch has a black wire, a green wire, and two red wires. When I wired it according to the instructions, the dimmer worked fine, dimmed the light.. only problem, it dimmed the BATHROOM light. (The bathroom and dining room are on the same circuit.) The dining room light didn't come on at all. Can anyone help me out here? Thanks in advance!

 

[-Jim-]

Hi! I don't know if this is the wrong place to post this.. if so, sorry. I'm hoping someone here can help me.. I'm trying to install a dimmer switch in my dining room, which previously had a regular lightswitch. So, inside the wall box, there are two bundles of wires. One has black, red, white, and bare wires, the other has black, white, and bare. I'm assuming the white is neutral, and bare is ground. Anyway, the configuration looks to be a 3-way switch, but there isn't another switch that controls this fixture. SO.. I wired the switch according to the instructions for the 3-way, since this was the only wiring configuration that had the 4/3 wires in the wall box. I should add that the dimmer switch has a black wire, a green wire, and two red wires. When I wired it according to the instructions, the dimmer worked fine, dimmed the light.. only problem, it dimmed the BATHROOM light. (The bathroom and dining room are on the same circuit.) The dining room light didn't come on at all. Can anyone help me out here? Thanks in advance!

Well this will be fun!

Did you happen to take a photo or two of the switch installed before you put in the dimmer? Did you make a diagram of the connections? Can you supply a photo of the switch you removed showing it's connection points?

Do you have a multimeter?

Where in the world do you live?

Please advise manufacturer, and model number of the Dimmer you want to install. Is the Dining Room light fixture incandescent, fluorescent, or LED? (Yes it can make a difference.)

I suggest a Mod move this to it's own thread as to not take over this one.

 

[diwit]

Well this will be fun!

Did you happen to take a photo or two of the switch installed before you put in the dimmer? Did you make a diagram of the connections? Can you supply a photo of the switch you removed showing it's connection points?

Do you have a multimeter?

Where in the world do you live?

Please advise manufacturer, and model number of the Dimmer you want to install. Is the Dining Room light fixture incandescent, fluorescent, or LED hardwood floor repair atlanta? (Yes it can make a difference.)

I suggest a Mod move this to it's own thread as to not take over this one.

thank you so much for your suggestion