Surge protection/power conditioner recommended?

[ssmokeyy]

Today I plugged in my apc theater power conditioner and it blew up. Spark than nothing. I have a panamax m5300-pm as backup but not sure if it really does its job. What do u guys recommend for this gear? I have been doing alot of reading. Furman pfi. Audioquest overpriced at $3500. Panamax m5300/m5400 not alot of info out there on them.

 

[-Jim-]

IMHO most folks can do without power conditioners for Public Utility Systems in the USA and Canada. But I do recommend they install whole house Surge Protection in the Main Electrical Panel of their house to protect their expensive gear. It usually much cheaper to do it there without the claptrap of power bars of questionable reliability.

Where do you live?

I hope this is helpful.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Wa state usa. I have the apc 15h and panamax m5300 pm all ready. I have rewired my whole house. I do have whole house surge. When I built the theater room I used 10 ga 5 runs to the front and 12 ga for the lights. Ps audio outlets. I had two brand new apc h15 power conditioner but like I said one blew on plug in. Tested the outlet and plugged another box in and it was fine. I also have upgraded brakers in the new box. All.copper build box.

 

[cpp]

Wa state usa. I have the apc 15h and panamax m5300 pm all ready. I have rewired my whole house. I do have whole house surge. When I built the theater room I used 10 ga 5 runs to the front and 12 ga for the lights. Ps audio outlets. I had two brand new apc h15 power conditioner but like I said one blew on plug in. Tested the outlet and plugged another box in and it was fine. I also have upgraded brakers in the new box. All.copper build box.

Have you called APC, they have a decent warranty service. https://www.apc.com/us/en/support/product-support/registration-warranty-services.jsp.

 

[rsharp]

I have used Panamax surge protectors for the past 30+ years, so can definitely recommend that brand. Currently I use their M8-HT PRO units for all my computer and AV gear. And smaller M4-EX 4 units for things like Home Pods.

I would not get anything from Audioquest.

 

[viorelc]

When I moved to South Florida close to 8 years ago, I purchased a few Furman M-8x units for my network rack, computers and AV equipment. I’ve been through multiple storms, a few major hurricanes and plenty of electrical storms without any problem. I don’t have surge protection for the whole house and as a result, a condenser inside the AC got damaged during a small storm, but nothing that was protected by the Furman units had any issues, the Furman just switched off power a few times during the storm. These are the only units I ever used for surge protection, and I don’t know how they compare with other units.

 

[ssmokeyy]

The last time I warranty something with them was a nightmare. There customer service was yes to every question and we will upgrade your product for your trouble. Nothing every worked that they sent me. Also had missing parts and they would tell me they were sending u brand new units going to retail. I ended up ordering furman parts and cyber power pure sine wave parts just to end the nightmare.

 

[highfigh]

When I moved to South Florida close to 8 years ago, I purchased a few Furman M-8x units for my network rack, computers and AV equipment. I’ve been through multiple storms, a few major hurricanes and plenty of electrical storms without any problem. I don’t have surge protection for the whole house and as a result, a condenser inside the AC got damaged during a small storm, but nothing that was protected by the Furman units had any issues, the Furman just switched off power a few times during the storm. These are the only units I ever used for surge protection, and I don’t know how they compare with other units.

According to tech support for Yamaha and Denon, you live in the place where more lightning strikes occur than in any other place in the country.

 

[-Jim-]

Wa state usa. I have the apc 15h and panamax m5300 pm all ready. I have rewired my whole house. I do have whole house surge. When I built the theater room I used 10 ga 5 runs to the front and 12 ga for the lights. Ps audio outlets. I had two brand new apc h15 power conditioner but like I said one blew on plug in. Tested the outlet and plugged another box in and it was fine. I also have upgraded brakers in the new box. All.copper build box.

I think your State has pretty stringent Voltage Regulation Requirements for electrical utilities, and in general the NEMA requirements require the hardware supplier to ensure it's equipment is able to ride through those deviations without issue. Here's an interesting paper from PGE. I'm an electrical type and in all my decades we've never had any issue that would require power conditioning. (I live north of you in Vancouver, BC, Canada.) Surge Protection on the other hand, gives us piece of mind, especially at our Family Cabin in the interior which is subject to lightning storms.

There is little discernable noise on the feeds to our places, but I do understand some folks have problems with it and turn to conditioners . Some with little if any positive results.

I wonder what made you buy your units in the first place?

 

[Verdinut]

IMHO most folks can do without power conditioners for Public Utility Systems in the USA and Canada. But I do recommend they install whole house Surge Protection in the Main Electrical Panel of their house to protect their expensive gear. It usually much cheaper to do it there without the claptrap of power bars of questionable reliability.

Where do you live?

I hope this is helpful.

But when you live in an apartment, you have no recourse but to use a UPS Battery Backup or a good power conditioner featuring surge protection.

I have been using an APC H15 power conditioner on my HT system. My Panasonic Plasma is separately protected with an APC Line-R1200 voltage regulator.

 

[-Jim-]

But when you live in an apartment, you have no recourse but to use a UPS Battery Backup or a good power conditioner featuring surge protection.

I have been using an APC H15 power conditioner on my HT system. My Panasonic Plasma is separately protected with an APC Line-R1200 voltage regulator.

Acknowledged.

 

[ssmokeyy]

I loved the h15 until i started haven problems.

 

[Verdinut]

I have been using the H15 every day for over 15 years without any problem.

 

[Audiguy3]

Today I plugged in my apc theater power conditioner and it blew up. Spark than nothing. I have a panamax m5300-pm as backup but not sure if it really does its job. What do u guys recommend for this gear? I have been doing alot of reading. Furman pfi. Audioquest overpriced at $3500. Panamax m5300/m5400 not alot of info out there on them.

I have Panamax for my av gear and APC for my computer gear. They protected my gear from a lighting strike that came in from the sprinkler wiring.

 

[TLS Guy]

Today I plugged in my apc theater power conditioner and it blew up. Spark than nothing. I have a panamax m5300-pm as backup but not sure if it really does its job. What do u guys recommend for this gear? I have been doing alot of reading. Furman pfi. Audioquest overpriced at $3500. Panamax m5300/m5400 not alot of info out there on them.

What are you connecting to that APC H15? Those H15 units are only 1.5KVA and KVA are not watts. 1.5 KVA is 1000 watts. Power protection is only required for the fragile equipment. It is particularly not recommended that power amps be connected to them. The turn on current is too high for one thing and their power draw highly variable. Unfortunately that means you should NOT connect receivers.

I have used APC UPS units for years. The three in the AV room are now 17 years old. The two in the other two systems are three years old. So far I have not had an issue. However I use units with a rating a little above the calculated draw. None of my power amps are connected. I use whole house surge protection at the main power entry switch to the residence.

I have a feeling that you are overloading those units. If power amps or a receiver are connected, then I would bet that is why you are blowing them up.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Would u hook up a $5000 amp to the wall. Both of my amps have been custom upgraded from factory spec. My next amp showing up has 160000 main rail of caps. The one I plugged into the high relay out on the h15 had 164000 main rail cap output. I guess I over worry about these amps being damaged.

 

[TLS Guy]

Would u hook up a $5000 amp to the wall. Both of my amps have been custom upgraded from factory spec. My next amp showing up has 160000 main rail of caps. The one I plugged into the high relay out on the h15 had 164000 main rail cap output. I guess I over worry about these amps being damaged.

Yes, all my power amps are plugged into the wall. Power amps have very powerful power supplies, or should, with massive smoothing caps. They are fine plugged into the wall. If you have been running power amps off that unit, then that it why it dramatically sparked on you. It is not good for the power amp either as those units can't deliver current quick enough. Basically those units were created to protect computers, which have frail micro processing chips to protect. Receivers contain these also, but also power amps. That is another reason for me to not use receivers, but AVPs and external power amps. I have 13 power amps in three systems plugged into the wall here. everything else is protected by a UPS, like you would a computer.

Unfortunately your worry has driven you to bad engineering, and the result has been sparks. From your description of that amp, I'm surprised the UPS did not go up in flames every time you switched it on. That set up, was just plain wrong, there is no other way to put it.

 

[highfigh]

Would u hook up a $5000 amp to the wall. Both of my amps have been custom upgraded from factory spec. My next amp showing up has 160000 main rail of caps. The one I plugged into the high relay out on the h15 had 164000 main rail cap output. I guess I over worry about these amps being damaged.

Power amps use more power and all surge protection has current limits, as well as being a limiting factor in the current that can pass through those circuits, especially if it uses simple devices like MOVs. Some are said to be 'parallel' to the path from the wall to the equipment and those could be used, theoretically, but many brands have outlets specifically for power amps, so the answer to your question about hooking up a $5K power amp to the wall, yes but it's not about the price, it's about the current needed.

I assume you mean 164k uF and that's likely the cause of the failures. Do you hear a thump when the amplifier turns on? That indicates that it doesn't have a 'soft turn on' circuit, which can come in the form a sequential power-up. Slamming anything with a full load isn't a good thing, especially if the filter caps drain after the amp is shut down.

Best practice- use whole house and local protection where it' needed, which is usually AVRs, processors, source devices and things like those. Power amps don't typically need it because they're less sensitive. Power companies are supposed to provide 120VAC +/- 10% and that's not enough to cause problems for most equipment and certainly not for anything that uses lower voltage from a wall wart (many newer TVs, computers, some CD/DVD/BD players, etc).

 

[ssmokeyy]

No thump. I hadn't even turned on the amp yet. Just installed brand new h15 and plugged it into the wall and spark unit died.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Would u hook up a $5000 amp to the wall. Both of my amps have been custom upgraded from factory spec. ...

So, you bought an expensive amp that wasn't engineered properly then found someone who claimed to be an expert in amps to upgrade it?
Most interesting.