Denon AVC-A1H, special request for Gene to review and bench test this new beast!

[PENG]

Hello Gene,

So far you have only measured the recent Marantz flagship AVR, the SR8015, it will be fantastic if you can get the Denon A1H from your contacts at Masimo and do a full battery of bench tests on it.

The *OFFICIAL* 2023 Denon AVR / AVC - A1H 15.4ch Flagship AVR Owners Thread | Page 34 | AVS Forum

This thing has 4 XLRs for subwoofer outputs that apparently can be re-assigned for use with the FL/FR/C so there will be plenty of voltage for the best Purifi/Hypex/Benchmark amps that have relatively lower gain.

If tested well in every metric you use, it could potentially be a real alternative to separates such as Massimo's own AV10/AC10.

You have already measured one Marantz flagship, and one Anthem flagship AVR (actually you also measured the A6A that is very close to being a Yamaha flagship) so it is high time to measure a Denon as well right? Since you were a real practicing electrical engineer in the highly related EE field (telecomm iirc..), I think you are the best person in the audio world to review and measure the highly sophisticated SOTA kind of AV receivers.

Thank you in advance

 

[-Jim-]

100% of the votes are for the 4800 review!

(Okay, as I was the first to vote... )

I don't think I'd ever be able to purchase the Denon A1H. Only if I won the Loto!

 

[PENG]

100% of the votes are for the 4800 review!

(Okay, as I was the first to vote... )

I don't think I'd ever be able to purchase the Denon A1H. Only if I won the Loto!

Thanks for voting, I should have included the choice for measuring both but I know Gene's busy so I shouldn't be too greedy.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well they mention that Matthew will be doing the new Sony flagship review/test.....I'm not familiar with Gene's schedule in any case. I'm probably more interested in the 4800 at this point in any case, altho would love to see the flagship Denon tested too (and thus couldn't vote).

 

[ban25]

Here's hoping Gene reviews both the A1H and the AV10/AMP10 separates!

 

[TLS Guy]

AVRs are yesterdays news. Time to move on to AVPs and active speakers. The sooner AVRs are gone, the better off everyone will be.

I see we have now descended into extreme absurdity. We now have 15 power amps, class A/B at that, in one box! This along with the preamps and complex processing circuitry.
Such a contraption is way beyond absurd. Anyone who buys one of those must have money to burn. You can guarantee frustration and being promptly out of pocket with that purchase.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AVRs are yesterdays news. Time to move on to AVPs and active speakers. The sooner AVRs are gone, the better off everyone will be.

I see we have now descended into extreme absurdity. We now have 15 power amps, class A/B at that, in one box! This along with the preamps and complex processing circuitry.
Such a contraption is way beyond absurd. Anyone who buys one of those must have money to burn. You can guarantee frustration and being promptly out of pocket with that purchase.

The fact is, AVR and non-powered speakers and subs (within same brand) are a lot less expensive than AVP and powered speakers.

For example, the least expensive AVP from Massimo is $3200 (AV7706, made in Vietnam).

Imagine how expensive the Revel Salon2 and B&W 801D4 would be if they put amps inside them?

Unless you think most people are getting a lot richer, why would most people buy AVP and powered speakers?

About 90% of HT consumers buy AVR, not AVP. Probably 99% of consumers buy passive speakers. For a very good reason.

 

[everettT]

The fact is, AVR and non-powered speakers and subs (within same brand) are a lot less expensive than AVP and powered speakers.

For example, the least expensive AVP from Massimo is $3200 (AV7706, made in Vietnam).

Imagine how expensive the Revel Salon2 and B&W 801D4 would be if they put amps inside them?

Unless you think most people are getting a lot richer, why would most people buy AVP and powered speakers?

About 90% of HT consumers buy AVR, not AVP. Probably 99% of consumers buy passive speakers. For a very good reason.

B&W would charge an arm and a leg for aure, but the reality is products like the NCore OEM amps are cheap and so is the their DSP module and the retail price on their plate amps are not what I would consider to expensive for what you get, at all. But the customers who are buying these products aren't the average consumer, as you pointed out.

If the price of both AVP and AVR continue to climb, the manufacturers are gonna be in a world of hurt with the mass market consumer.

 

[PENG]

B&W would charge an arm and a leg for aure, but the reality products like the NCore OEM amps are cheap and so is the their DSP module and the retail price on their plate amps are not what I would consider to expensive for what you get, at all. But the customers who are buying these products aren't the average consumer, as you pointed out.

If the price of both AVO and AVR continue to climb, the manufacturers are gonna be in a world of hurt with the mass market consumer.

I have never had issues with my external amps over the years except one Adcom that had one channel failed, yet I have experience failures in two plate amps, with one having a minor defect that I can live with. To me, active speakers, like most things, there are pros and cons but overall I would avoid it unless the active parts can be easily replaced, or better still, fixed (i.e. full diagnostic, service manual included, modular, plug/unpluggable parts etc.)

 

[PENG]

The fact is, AVR and non-powered speakers and subs (within same brand) are a lot less expensive than AVP and powered speakers.

For example, the least expensive AVP from Massimo is $3200 (AV7706, made in Vietnam).

Imagine how expensive the Revel Salon2 and B&W 801D4 would be if they put amps inside them?

Unless you think most people are getting a lot richer, why would most people buy AVP and powered speakers?

About 90% of HT consumers buy AVR, not AVP. Probably 99% of consumers buy passive speakers. For a very good reason.

And I would add (for the more technical oriented AV hobbyists) that the likes of the AV7705, 7706 so call separates are basically AVRs without tuners and power amps. Some Youtubers such as youthman (not sure about the spelling), thought it had better parts/components than even the high end AVR such as the SR8015, and cited that being the reason why he and his co-host heard much better separation, steering, immersive sound. That video should be bookmarked to show how Placebo/expectation bias work so well even on experience and knowledgeable and popular Youtube reviewers.

 

[lovinthehd]

While in a perfect audio world I suppose everything would be separates....and all connected via balanced connections...but since most people don't care that much, pretty sure the avr is around for a while....not even much choice in pre-pro these days.

 

[PENG]

While in a perfect audio world I suppose everything would be separates....and all connected via balanced connections...but since most people don't care that much, pretty sure the avr is around for a while....not even much choice in pre-pro these days.

I think you are right, especially as class D amps/switching power supplies are gaining popularity (even Marantz is onboard now), the too many things jammed in one box will be becoming a smaller problem. Imagine someone in a small apartment, how much simpler it is to use something like Marantz C70 AVR, one box, and only HDMI cable, power cord and speaker wires to hook up, no need for balanced/unbalanced connections as none are required.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you are right, especially as class D amps/switching power supplies are gaining popularity (even Marantz is onboard now), the too many things jammed in one box will be becoming a smaller problem. Imagine someone in a small apartment, how much simpler it is to use something like Marantz C70 AVR, one box, and only HDMI cable, power cord and speaker wires to hook up, no need for balanced/unbalanced connections as none are required.

Seems some don't even want the pre-pros and are looking to alternative forms of pre-amp/dac rather than paying a premium for a pre-pro.

 

[PENG]

Seems some don't even want the pre-pros and are looking to alternative forms of pre-amp/dac rather than paying a premium for a pre-pro.

Oh for sure, and many also want 3.1, 5.1 so they don't have to pay for things they don't use. Manufacturers stick to their gun because of the great power of "economy of scale".

 

[everettT]

I think you are right, especially as class D amps/switching power supplies are gaining popularity (even Marantz is onboard now), the too many things jammed in one box will be becoming a smaller problem. Imagine someone in a small apartment, how much simpler it is to use something like Marantz C70 AVR, one box, and only HDMI cable, power cord and speaker wires to hook up, no need for balanced/unbalanced connections as none are required.

It would be nice if the large manufactures would do it like some of the smaller boutique and higher end ones do. Start with a basic model and build up from there. The base model should have enough HDMI ins and outs, RC, triggers, analog out only etc. to meet the needs of that category and then the series moves up in levels, add digital outputs only, with amps and no outputs, etc. They could still continue with business model for everything below the upper mid level units, just give the customers the options on those 3 or 4 units above that price point. They could inventory the base model in each series and special order the others. I'd be willing to wait 3-4 weeks for the delivery. This wouldn't disrupt their bread and butter sales at all and would increase sales in their upper lines, IMHO

 

[PENG]

It would nice if the large manufactures would do it like some of the smaller boutique and higher end ones do. Start with a basic model and build up from there. The base model should have enough HDMI ins and outs, RC, triggers, analog out only etc. to meet the needs of that category and then the series moves up in levels, add digital outputs only, with amps and no outputs, etc. They could still continue with business model for everything below the upper mid level units, just give the customers the options on those 3 or 4 units above that price point. They could inventory the base model in each series and special order the others. I'd be willing to wait 3-4 weeks for the delivery. This wouldn't disrupt their bread and butter sales at all and would increase sales in their upper lines, IMHO

The only hope I have is for some companies in Shenzhen China to come up some 5.1 or 7.1 AVRs based on top notch DAC and volume ICs they typically used (such as SMSL and Topping), class D chip amps, with just a few HDMI I/Os and sell for $1,000 or less. The big guys in Japan and the US are not going to do it.

 

[panteragstk]

I'm selfish. I want to see numbers from both units.

EDIT: I should have voted for the 4800 considering I might end up getting one to take advantage of having 4 subs individually configured, but I didn't.

 

[PENG]

Well they mention that Matthew will be doing the new Sony flagship review/test.....I'm not familiar with Gene's schedule in any case. I'm probably more interested in the 4800 at this point in any case, altho would love to see the flagship Denon tested too (and thus couldn't vote).

I added the choice to review both. Don't meant to be greedy, but Gene can say no anyway.

 

[PENG]

I'm selfish. I want to see numbers from both units.

EDIT: I should have voted for the 4800 considering I might end up getting one to take advantage of having 4 subs individually configured, but I didn't.

You can vote both now, doesn't mean we will get it obviously but no harm asking, we may get none.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And I would add (for the more technical oriented AV hobbyists) that the likes of the AV7705, 7706 so call separates are basically AVRs without tuners and power amps. Some Youtubers such as youthman (not sure about the spelling), thought it had better parts/components than even the high end AVR such as the SR8015, and cited that being the reason why he and his co-host heard much better separation, steering, immersive sound. That video should be bookmarked to show how Placebo/expectation bias work so well even on experience and knowledgeable and popular Youtube reviewers.

Try convincing TLS Guy.