audio myths answered /debunked ?

[Kingnoob]

Aka the never ending debate;
What are some common beginner misconceptions in audio?
And the answers to these from more advanced members?

That are endless asked.. I’ll list a few and we can someone explain and or put there input on these topics ?
etc..
Topics (Feel free to add your own topics)

• Expensive vs cheap cables
• Bi amping (uselessness)why does it exist ?
• Hdmi 4k vs regular do you need to buy special 4k cables?
• Towers vs bookshelves
• Tiber matching
• Best center speaker style?
• Atmos worth it?
• Hifi vs pro speakers?
• High end vs low end speakers?
• What $ amount is Diminishing returns
• Double bass vs thx?

 

[Kingnoob]

• Expensive vs cheap cables
• I read one article but is wire shielding another bs term ?Does it effect sound quality??
• https://www.gearpatrol.com/tech/audio/a669895/speaker-cables-buying-guide/

 

[fmw]

• Expensive vs cheap cables
• I read one article but is wire shielding another bs term ?Does it effect sound quality??
• https://www.gearpatrol.com/tech/audio/a669895/speaker-cables-buying-guide/

Kimber, the makers of PBJ cable would say no. So would I. Here is the confusion. The purpose of shielding cables is to prevent the cable from receiving or emitting signals. But the problem is that only radio frequency signals can escape or be captured by wires. Audio frequency signals can't escape or be influenced by radio frequency signals. The high end audio industry is loaded with people using bad science to sell their stuff.

 

[lovinthehd]

Since much of this is covered in various threads and articles maybe you could put together a list of links to such for each subject....you've certainly been around long enough by now to be able to either answer them yourself or find the answers with some searching....

 

[Kingnoob]

Since much of this is covered in various threads and articles maybe you could put together a list of links to such for each subject....you've certainly been around long enough by now to be able to either answer them yourself or find the answers with some searching....

yeah I’ll do that why not.
I’ve searched each topic many couldn’t find a definitive answer on many of them. Couldn’t find any dollar amount on diminishing returns that may be dependent on the brand and tiers. Some sources are conflicting also, so gotta find the best information.

 

[Bucknekked]

Aka the never ending debate;
What are some common beginner misconceptions in audio?
And the answers to these from more advanced members?

That are endless asked.. I’ll list a few and we can someone explain and or put there input on these topics ?
etc..
Topics (Feel free to add your own topics)

• Expensive vs cheap cables
• Bi amping (uselessness)why does it exist ?
• Hdmi 4k vs regular do you need to buy special 4k cables?
• Towers vs bookshelves
• Tiber matching
• Best center speaker style?
• Atmos worth it?
• Hifi vs pro speakers?
• High end vs low end speakers?
• What $ amount is Diminishing returns
• Double bass vs thx?

@lovinthehd @fmw

Well, I haven't started any arguments today so maybe theres still time to get one going.
How about using a coat hanger for speaker wire instead of $2,000 cables?
It's a famous urban legend in audio circles.

Coat Hangers verses Expensive Cables

Let the games begin.

 

[Kingnoob]

@lovinthehd @fmw

Well, I haven't started any arguments today so maybe theres still time to get one going.
How about using a coat hanger for speaker wire instead of $2,000 cables?
It's a famous urban legend in audio circles.

Coat Hangers verses Expensive Cables

Let the games begin.

Yeah I heard that before, I gotta read the whole article.
The next thing is cable oxidation and stuff I hear a lot about that .
Yeah argue /debate away .. anything goes.
I’m using 10 year old 14awg Dayton cables … but some people use $200+ a spool cables . Some into the thousands chasing Audio glory..

 

[fmw]

Kimber, the makers of PBJ cable would say no. So would I.

Yeah I heard that before, I gotta read the whole article.
The next thing is cable oxidation and stuff I hear a lot about that .
Yeah argue /debate away .. anything goes.
I’m using 10 year old 14awg Dayton cables … but some people use $200+ a spool cables . Some into the thousands chasing Audio glory..

Oxidation occurs on the surface of the copper wherever the copper is exposed to air. It doesn't reach the interior of the wire. It has nothing to do with audio glory.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah I heard that before, I gotta read the whole article.
The next thing is cable oxidation and stuff I hear a lot about that .
Yeah argue /debate away .. anything goes.
I’m using 10 year old 14awg Dayton cables … but some people use $200+ a spool cables . Some into the thousands chasing Audio glory..

Look at the bare cable- if it's remotely shiny and light-colored, it's not oxidized enough to matter. I it looks like an old coin, cut off about an inch, strip it and insert it in the terminals.

Inside of the insulation, oxidization doesn't matter, but if the wire looks green, replace it- that's a chemical reaction between the insulation/jacket and the Copper and eventually, some of the strands will break, losing connectivity. Old wire with the clear PVC insulation often turns black or green and once it turns black, it'snot very easy to clean it, especially when the ends are in a place where accessing it is difficult.

Cable price has increased drastically- in about 2008, it more than doubled because the Chinese were buying as much scrap metal as they could get, in order to build the facilities for the Bejing Olympics.

No, I don't want to see anyone tell me that I'm being racist, look into it for yourselves.

 

[highfigh]

Kimber, the makers of PBJ cable would say no. So would I. Here is the confusion. The purpose of shielding cables is to prevent the cable from receiving or emitting signals. But the problem is that only radio frequency signals can escape or be captured by wires. Audio frequency signals can't escape or be influenced by radio frequency signals. The high end audio industry is loaded with people using bad science to sell their stuff.

Ray Kimber sells expensive cables because he makes a lot of money selling expensive cables.

"Audio frequency signals can't escape or be influenced by radio frequency signals."? Bullshyte! If the field is strong enough, AF can be introduced on the wires and audio signals can be induced on other conductors and components. That's one of the reasons shielded cable exists and even non-polarized caps need to be checked for the wire that's connected to the outside of the wrapped foil. It doesn't need to be extremely high frequency RF and it can cause circuits to oscillate. Why was shielded audio cable created if it can't be affected by RFI/AFI/EMI? Dirty connections and bad grounds can result in audio from radio stations coming through the audio circuits- my guitar amp had some bad connections and probably at least one bad capacitor and when I turned it on one night, I was able to hear a local radio broadcast. I have heard that through other guitars and amplifiers, too. After I built a distortion pedal and screwed something up, I found that I had made a very nice little radio receiver.

WRT the bad science- I have to give some of them a bit of credit for their creativity, though.

Someone needs to remake these for the audio industry-

But, wait- here's an update, from the same narrator as the first video-

 

[Mikado463]

Audio frequency signals can't escape or be influenced by radio frequency signals.

Not so fast, a lot depends on how you define 'influenced'. For if you live next door to an amateur radio operator and your IC from your TT to phono-pre is not well shielded that 'influence' will be heard and amplified !

 

[Kingnoob]

Look at the bare cable- if it's remotely shiny and light-colored, it's not oxidized enough to matter. I it looks like an old coin, cut off about an inch, strip it and insert it in the terminals.

Inside of the insulation, oxidization doesn't matter, but if the wire looks green, replace it- that's a chemical reaction between the insulation/jacket and the Copper and eventually, some of the strands will break, losing connectivity. Old wire with the clear PVC insulation often turns black or green and once it turns black, it'snot very easy to clean it, especially when the ends are in a place where accessing it is difficult.

Cable price has increased drastically- in about 2008, it more than doubled because the Chinese were buying as much scrap metal as they could get, in order to build the facilities for the Bejing Olympics.

No, I don't want to see anyone tell me that I'm being racist, look into it for yourselves.

My oldest thinner cable looks like this .

Is it true 4k hdmi cables are a gimmick or is this article way off??

When are expensive cables worth it?

HDMI, USB, speaker, and other cables come in a wide variety of prices. Is it ever worth it to spend more? Actually, sometimes yes.

www.cnet.com

4K HDMI Cable VS. Normal HDMI Cable To Improve Picture Quality - Homeowner.com

Learn whether regular or $K HDMI cable is better for picture quality. Compare compatibility, picture quality and explore the differences.

thehometheaterdiy.com

 

[Bucknekked]

Well, I guess we didn't get much argument over basic speaker cables. Darn, I was hoping for one of the cork sniffers to weigh in with some Absolute Sound stuff. Sigh.

Lets move on to HDMI cables then. Is there a difference? Should you spend big money on HDMI?

My personal experience with HDMI is almost binary : YES it works, or NO it doesn't. Not quite perfectly so but pretty much so. In other words, if an HDMI cable of any particular vintage works, well, that's about all you need to spend or know. If things get really sketchy, or it doesn't work, then you need to look at a cable that claims to perform at better lengths.

I would pooh-pooh this idea 18 months ago. But, I had a situation with a new TV where I needed to get more than a dozen to 15 feet away. I used one of my existing cables and it did some whacked stuff. The picture was all over the place. Things would work, then not work, then work again. The common item was the cable. I went out and spent a few more bucks on a cable that claimed to work at greater length and voila, no more issues.

So, HDMI is sensitive to length. Your Turn !!

 

[Kingnoob]

Well, I guess we didn't get much argument over basic speaker cables. Darn, I was hoping for one of the cork sniffers to weigh in with some Absolute Sound stuff. Sigh.

Lets move on to HDMI cables then. Is there a difference? Should you spend big money on HDMI?

My personal experience with HDMI is almost binary : YES it works, or NO it doesn't. Not quite perfectly so but pretty much so. In other words, if an HDMI cable of any particular vintage works, well, that's about all you need to spend or know. If things get really sketchy, or it doesn't work, then you need to look at a cable that claims to perform at better lengths.

I would pooh-pooh this idea 18 months ago. But, I had a situation with a new TV where I needed to get more than a dozen to 15 feet away. I used one of my existing cables and it did some whacked stuff. The picture was all over the place. Things would work, then not work, then work again. The common item was the cable. I went out and spent a few more bucks on a cable that claimed to work at greater length and voila, no more issues.

So, HDMI is sensitive to length. Your Turn !!

Yeah speaker cable debate will have to rage on when someone who defends blue Jean cables and other brands shows up.
Which hdmi cable did you start with and replace it bad one with ? For reference on a good brand model , and one model to avoid .

Most my hdmi cables are monoprice high speed , I don’t have hdr not sure if they would work for it or not but regular 4k seems to work with any of my hdmis .

 

[Bucknekked]

Yeah speaker cable debate will have to rage on when someone who defends blue Jean cables and other brands shows up.
Which hdmi cable did you start with and replace it bad one with ? For reference on a good brand model , and one model to avoid .

Most my hdmi cables are monoprice high speed , I don’t have hdr not sure if they would work for it or not but regular 4k seems to work with any of my hdmis .

my problem HDMI cable was just one I had in a drawer. It was new but of no particular brand.
the TV was new too and not even doing 4K stuff. It was the length that was the trouble. the cables they give you may not be of spectacular quality.

The new cable that worked I got at Lowe’s. No name but “certified” to work at 20 feet or however long it was. I don’t know about certified but it worked where the cheap free one didnt

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yeah speaker cable debate will have to rage on when someone who defends blue Jean cables and other brands shows up.
...

That only happens when testable claims are made unlike stating a preference like "I like Blue Jean Cables."

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ray Kimber sells expensive cables because he makes a lot of money selling expensive cables.

...

Because there is a market for it. If there was no market or he was losing money, he would not make or sell them.

 

[mtrycrafts]

@lovinthehd @fmw

Well, I haven't started any arguments today so maybe theres still time to get one going.
How about using a coat hanger for speaker wire instead of $2,000 cables?
It's a famous urban legend in audio circles.

Coat Hangers verses Expensive Cables

Let the games begin.

Let's not forget that such coat hangers were also demonstrated to work as a digital cable.

 

[killdozzer]

Never witnessed any cable related improvement as long as they were to spec (the right gauge), but my point was always - even if there is, let's say there's a difference (and I'm not), let's meet the cable crowd half way, it is obviously minute since the biggest proponents of cable related improvement can't pick their favorite ones blind in a line-up. Well, why give a heap of money for something that affects sound even less than the season of the year?

 

[Speedskater]

None of the items on the list are myths. The items on the list all perform real tasks. The question is do they perform their tasks better or correctly.
Real audiophile myths are like:
CD's and green pens
Cable lifters
magic grounding boxes
and