Coffee Bean Grinders

T

tonyE

Junior Audioholic
@tonyE - stop buying Costco beans. They are likely long past 2-3 months of reasonable beans shelf life. If you can't roast yourself, find a local roaster. Get a bottomless portafilter to troubleshoot grinding/tamping issues.
Lastly, as I said before, I don't consider Barantza Virtuoso a suitable espresso grinder.
Hmm.. notice I updated the post? I don't use Costco beans for my espresso.
 
T

tonyE

Junior Audioholic
Is there such a thing as coffee infused snake oil? Where are the independent scientific tests showing that 30 lb tamping tastes better than 20 lbs? :D
My puck is calibrated to 30 lbs... I can always push with less force... normally I will level the grounds with a rotating motion and then I will push once or twice to make sure it's well packed. I can always not push hard enough to trigger the spring... less force.

And you can actually taste and see the difference with more or less pressure. You can taste the bitterness in the cup, see the crema being created and then inspect the puck post-pull to see how the water went through it.

Otherwise we'd all be drinking "Instant Bose Beans"...

You don't tell me... you have a 20000 watt AVR into a Bose soundbar and drink instant coffee while you read ASR....
 
T

tonyE

Junior Audioholic
... I was extremely proud that my daughter could out man splain me.)

...

All this, the cost of high pressure espresso makers & espresso grinders, as well as the learning curve for tamping the puck is why I haven't bothered with making espresso at home. I like drip coffee made from fresh roasted coffee well enough. For others, YMMV.
(1) My calibrated tamper was a Christmas gift from my daughter. She actually gets me things I really want!

(2) Yes, it gets expensive up front... but so are my audio hobbies... and I've grown around espresso. My aunt would make my cousin and me a double shot late before going to school (this back in the old country!) and we always had a moka in the house. Got my first real espresso machine in '82. Once you get the up front money and training done, not only do you save money, but I can pull some great coffee in my pajamas, without having to get dressed, drive and pay mucho bucks to some button pushing barista.

(3) I find making good espresso to be a nice break from the day, working at home. For wife and daughter (when she's around) I make lattes or cappuccinos. It's is a relaxing thing to do.

(4) I've started to froth the milk (*) in a pre heated mug and I bring it up to about half an inch from the top... then I pour a double shot into a tall shot glass and transfer it with a funnel into the mug. You can't see the coffee, just a flat layer of milk forth... I call this my "Kobe Snowy Night" drink... as opposed frothing the milk in a pitcher and pouring it... I call that my "Mount Fuji"... Now myself... strictly a double shot in the dark, making sure the crema is not lost!

(*) For best results I add a bit of half and half to 2% and mix the sugar before the frothing. That sweetens the froth as well.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
(1) My calibrated tamper was a Christmas gift from my daughter. She actually gets me things I really want!

(2) Yes, it gets expensive up front... but so are my audio hobbies... and I've grown around espresso. My aunt would make my cousin and me a double shot late before going to school (this back in the old country!) and we always had a moka in the house. Got my first real espresso machine in '82. Once you get the up front money and training done, not only do you save money, but I can pull some great coffee in my pajamas, without having to get dressed, drive and pay mucho bucks to some button pushing barista.

(3) I find making good espresso to be a nice break from the day, working at home. For wife and daughter (when she's around) I make lattes or cappuccinos. It's is a relaxing thing to do.

(4) I've started to froth the milk (*) in a pre heated mug and I bring it up to about half an inch from the top... then I pour a double shot into a tall shot glass and transfer it with a funnel into the mug. You can't see the coffee, just a flat layer of milk forth... I call this my "Kobe Snowy Night" drink... as opposed frothing the milk in a pitcher and pouring it... I call that my "Mount Fuji"... Now myself... strictly a double shot in the dark, making sure the crema is not lost!

(*) For best results I add a bit of half and half to 2% and mix the sugar before the frothing. That sweetens the froth as well.
Spoken like someone who drinks plenty of coffee :).

My daughter pointed out that she has to drink coffee before she can make good espresso.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
That's why no K-cup espresso makers exist … for now ;).
My son is the barista in the house and we did get him an espresso machine which he keeps in his dorm room. He's gotten pretty good at it and brings it home between courses at university. I'll use the stove top espresso maker on occasion but like you I prefer regular coffee if I am drinking it often. I had a combo drip and espresso machine for a while but it took up too much counter space and was replaced by a Kurig. Before you cringe, when I bought the Kurig the first accessory I got was the brass mesh filter basket. I insisted on a machine where I could choose my own beans and grind. First machine had the pump go after a year, but the replacement is still running well after several years. The local shopping district in our neighbourhood has a really good coffee shop and bakery that roasts their own beans. Their London Fog tea is amazing too (my wife only drinks tea, no coffee).
 
T

tonyE

Junior Audioholic
That's why no K-cup espresso makers exist … for now ;).
In a recent trip, we found ourselves without our travelling french press and ground bag... so we ended up having to buy some instant coffee. It was tough, I tell ya... very tough.

Whenever we travel, mostly by car nowadays, we take a french press, enough ground coffee for a few days, a water boiling pot and a gallon of distilled water. Nothing like waking up in a hotel/motel and making that good cup of strong coffee to get us going.

I suppose if we retire and start to take trips longer than a week, we might have to bring a grinder with us. I wonder what the TSA rules are about carrying a burr grinder on board?
 
T

tonyE

Junior Audioholic
Spoken like someone who drinks plenty of coffee :).

My daughter pointed out that she has to drink coffee before she can make good espresso.
Tony.... drinking coffee since the 4th grade!

I agree with your daughter.... we have a drip machine that gets us going. We load it at night and use the timer. My wife brings me my first cup.

Now, my sister.... ha! She told me that prepping the drip the night before makes it taste "plasticky"... so she gets up, grinds the beans, preps her drip machine (and interesting device with very little plastic) and brews it.

She does make great drip coffee... with all kinds of really good coffee beans.

BUT, she doesn't even have a stereo or HT. Only the JBL Bluetooth speaker I bought her eons ago.
 
T

tonyE

Junior Audioholic
Do any of you use the Moca Pot XPresso Pump?
This?


Interesting... we do have two moka pots.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
(1) My calibrated tamper was a Christmas gift from my daughter. She actually gets me things I really want!

(2) Yes, it gets expensive up front... but so are my audio hobbies... and I've grown around espresso. My aunt would make my cousin and me a double shot late before going to school (this back in the old country!) and we always had a moka in the house. Got my first real espresso machine in '82. Once you get the up front money and training done, not only do you save money, but I can pull some great coffee in my pajamas, without having to get dressed, drive and pay mucho bucks to some button pushing barista.

(3) I find making good espresso to be a nice break from the day, working at home. For wife and daughter (when she's around) I make lattes or cappuccinos. It's is a relaxing thing to do.

(4) I've started to froth the milk (*) in a pre heated mug and I bring it up to about half an inch from the top... then I pour a double shot into a tall shot glass and transfer it with a funnel into the mug. You can't see the coffee, just a flat layer of milk forth... I call this my "Kobe Snowy Night" drink... as opposed frothing the milk in a pitcher and pouring it... I call that my "Mount Fuji"... Now myself... strictly a double shot in the dark, making sure the crema is not lost!

(*) For best results I add a bit of half and half to 2% and mix the sugar before the frothing. That sweetens the froth as well.
I am going to show off here, but having a double boiler helps with steaming milk. I use regular 4% milk, and despite my doing it for a few years, I still occasionally fail to achieve proper micro-foam. Otherwise, it's basically a cappuccino, ie: double espresso with 1/2 cup of foam. I don't add any additional sweeteners.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I forget where I saw it above, I did want to add though that Espresso is not using steam to brew, it is using water, heated to somewhere between 195-205°F (La Marzocca recommends an even 200 as the starting point) at the group head. It is under pressure at a recommended 9 bars.

As for tamping to a specific density having an effect on results… certainly though I haven’t personally researched or seen a study on this.
More than anything, the goal is to create a uniform bed against which the hot water is “pressed” against. In an ideal setting, water is exiting the distribution or Shower Screen in a regular and even pattern, against a flat and level puck with no inconsistency to its structure, and passing through the basket with little resistance that could impede what should otherwise be an “unrestricted” flow (yes, there are restrictions to the flow, but here I mean that the basket itself is somehow NOT altering anything in the system).

Interestingly, it has been pointed out that the 9 bars of pressure an espresso pump should be delivering is far in excess of most people’s ability to firmly tamp the grind in the filter. So as I described in an earlier post, the real goal is simply to provide a consistent puck which will hold together on its own and not break apart.
I always give a gentle spin if my portafilter. Habit really, but cool show off technique. If the grind doesn’t stay put, you failed at your task as a Barista.

@highfigh , I think it was you that commented about brewing a pour over with some tamping pressure applied. I learned early on to stir (first add a little hot water to bloom the grinds, then pour in to fill the cone and stir the grounds). I’ve since seen other techniques, too.
In the end, I think this just comes back to determining what works on the individual level and the only limit is how far you are going to go for consistent repeatable pours. In a coffee shop obviously you want it to be the same day after day. At home?… as long as you enjoy it you did good. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
LOL I wish we had some local fresh roasting.....any good sources for shipping such?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I forget where I saw it above, I did want to add though that Espresso is not using steam to brew, it is using water, heated to somewhere between 195-205°F (La Marzocca recommends an even 200 as the starting point) at the group head. It is under pressure at a recommended 9 bars.
I think that was me. I misspoke a little. Under high pressure, water boils at 121°C, becoming steam.

Water, when heated to 195-205°F, and the pressurized by the espresso maker's pump, raises its temperature. It's physics, see the Ideal Gas Laws that relate temperature, pressure, and volume. pV=nRT where p is pressure, V is volume, and T is temperature. n is a constant, a kind of fudge factor.

Once the superheated water passes through the puck, the pressure drops back to 1 atmosphere. Somewhere as the pressure drops, steam appears, but more of it goes into the cup as a liquid.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
LOL I wish we had some local fresh roasting.....any good sources for shipping such?
Search via Google for coffee roasters in your area. Is San Francisco or Oakland too far away from you? If so, there should be many small roasting shops.

If the DIY roasting bug bites hard enough, you can buy cheap, moderate, or expensive roasters and plenty of green coffee beans. The type of roaster depends on how much you want to roast at a time. I like to roast enough to last me ~3 weeks. More than that is a waste.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Search via Google for coffee roasters in your area. Is San Francisco or Oakland too far away from you? If so, there should be many small roasting shops.
Well it was easier when I lived in SF :) I have looked up some in Eugene for a shopping trip I'm doing tomorrow....but when those beans run out the guys who ship sound interesting....but do it in enough volume not to kill on the shipping costs....maybe I'll just put back together a roasting setup, but I'm lazy.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Well it was easier when I lived in SF :) I have looked up some in Eugene for a shopping trip I'm doing tomorrow....but when those beans run out the guys who ship sound interesting....but do it in enough volume not to kill on the shipping costs....maybe I'll just put back together a roasting setup, but I'm lazy.
Good coffee, fresh roasted costs at least $16 per pound, probably more. Green (unroasted) coffee costs $7-9 per pound. When you roast, you loose about 12-15% of the weight, mainly water.

I order green coffee from a place in Oakland, Sweet Maria's. There are many others.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Good coffee, fresh roasted costs at least $16 per pound, probably more. Green (unroasted) coffee costs $7-9 per pound. When you roast, you loose about 12-15% of the weight, mainly water.
Not particularly cost of the bean but I don't have a dedicated roaster either but maybe it's time to look into one...I only have a popcorn machine hack (altho I did save an old toaster oven with the idea of mounting some kind of rotating barrel inside).....but it's also been so wet outside I just don't want to set it up at all (and am not doing that inside again). I'll try a local roaster tomorrow now that I've got this on the brain while in town for a few other errands (gotta make that $60 in gas worth it :) ).
 
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