So got everything set up, but the sound doesn't seem as good as I thought it would be.

[Davvy]

So I got the Onkyo 7100 avr with Emotiva B1+ speakers and the sound just doesn't seem that impressive, like it's not really clear. I'm using Spotify connect by the way with the very high streaming option selected. I'm using the avr in direct mode by the way. I've also included some pictures of speaker placement too in the living room. The space between the speakers and the wall behind is about 16inches and from the side wall it's about 13inches, is that good enough ? At one point I was sitting the same distance from the speakers as from each other and I didn't really feel that great imaging people talk about either. I know there only $220 speakers but they are well regarded by many.

I should mention that I also have a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 100 and a pair of Elac DBR62 Debut Reference bookshelves speakers also in the house but I have not hooked them up yet. I want to test each pairs out according their price points. I also want to trouble shoot any bottlenecks and make sure all my ducks are lined up before I move on. By the way the speakers I just mentioned are definitely bigger then the B1+, so the amount of space around my B1+ will it also be enough for the other speakers I have you think ?

Thanks

 

[TLS Guy]

So I got the Onkyo 7100 avr with Emotiva B1+ speakers and the sound just doesn't seem that impressive, like it's not really clear. I'm using Spotify connect by the way with the very high streaming option selected. I'm using the avr in direct mode by the way. I've also included some pictures of speaker placement too in the living room. The space between the speakers and the wall behind is about 16inches and from the side wall it's about 13inches, is that good enough ? At one point I was sitting the same distance from the speakers as from each other and I didn't really feel that great imaging people talk about either. I know there only $220 speakers but they are well regarded by many.

I should mention that I also have a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 100 and a pair of Elac DBR62 Debut Reference bookshelves speakers also in the house but I have not hooked them up yet. I want to test each pairs out according their price points. I also want to trouble shoot any bottlenecks and make sure all my ducks are lined up before I move on. By the way the speakers I just mentioned are definitely bigger then the B1+, so the amount of space around my B1+ will it also be enough for the other speakers I have you think ?

Thanks

I suspect the speakers are junk. Speakers that price, especially from a company not known for fine speakers is likely your problem. In addition for speakers of that size, a sub or two is mandatory.

Never count on subjective reviews from anybody. Most of the public are cloth eared. In my opinion very few bookshelf speakers are worth the expense and trouble. There are exceptions, but they tend to be pricey. Speakers determine 99% of how your system will sound.

 

[lovinthehd]

Corner placement like that isn't particularly ideal. I prefer more separation of the speakers myself, and while an equilateral triangle is often recommended, it's worth experimenting. Can you experiment with a new place for tv/speakers?

If using Spotify you might want to go thru the default settings, there may be some things turned on/enabled that aren't helping. You are using the Spotify premium service?

 

[Davvy]

Corner placement like that isn't particularly ideal. I prefer more separation of the speakers myself, and while an equilateral triangle is often recommended, it's worth experimenting. Can you experiment with a new place for tv/speakers?

If using Spotify you might want to go thru the default settings, there may be some things turned on/enabled that aren't helping. You are using the Spotify premium service?

It's the only place I can put the speakers unless I put everything in front of the windows on the left or everything in front of the fireplace on the right and yes I have a premium membership. Sure it's not the most optimal placement but it should still play pretty clear. I looked at many places most people say you need 1 to 3feet from the walls. I'll experiment and also try diff speakers. I would be real interested in trying a quality amp and see how it compares to my avr, I might just do that.

 

[PENG]

It's the only place I can put the speakers unless I put everything in front of the windows on the left or everything in front of the fireplace on the right and yes I have a premium membership.

I know it is a little late to mention this, if you are limited in your placement option, you may be a good candidate for RC system such as Dirac, Anthem ARC, and Audyssey's. Onkyo's own (AccuEQ?) may work too but probably not as effective, but you should try it anyway and see if you like it better. The ones I mentioned allow you to limit the frequency range to be room corrected so it won't affect the mid/high range if you don't like the effects. Their ability to improve the bass range is very good.

 

[highfigh]

It's the only place I can put the speakers unless I put everything in front of the windows on the left or everything in front of the fireplace on the right and yes I have a premium membership. Sure it's not the most optimal placement but it should still play pretty clear. I looked at many places most people say you need 1 to 3feet from the walls. I'll experiment and also try diff speakers. I would be real interested in trying a quality amp and see how it compares to my avr, I might just do that.

Angle the speakers toward the center- I suspect the curtain on the left is sucking up some of the treble.

 

[Davvy]

I know it is a little late to mention this, if you are limited in your placement option, you may be a good candidate for RC system such as Dirac, Anthem ARC, and Audyssey's. Onkyo's own (AccuEQ?) may work too but probably not as effective, but you should try it anyway and see if you like it better. The ones I mentioned allow you to limit the frequency range to be room corrected so it won't affect the mid/high range if you don't like the effects. Their ability to improve the bass range is very good.

I'm somewhat interested in doing that in the future but I didn't want to spend time on that right now, especially that I'm not 100% sure if I'm keeping this avr. Plus only running a stereo set up I would tend to believe it should at least sound pretty decent without any RC. I'm off for the next three days and I'm going to move stuff around and test to see if it sounds better. Also I'd like to get a quality amp soon see if I like it better, but only after I've tested more with my current setup.

 

[Davvy]

Angle the speakers toward the center- I suspect the curtain on the left is sucking up some of the treble.

Yep

 

[Swerd]

So I got the Onkyo 7100 avr with Emotiva B1+ speakers and the sound just doesn't seem that impressive, like it's not really clear.

I should mention that I also have a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 100 and a pair of Elac DBR62 Debut Reference bookshelves speakers also in the house but I have not hooked them up yet.

I want to test each pairs out according their price points.

I also want to trouble shoot any bottlenecks and make sure all my ducks are lined up before I move on. By the way the speakers I just mentioned are definitely bigger then the B1+, so the amount of space around my B1+ will it also be enough for the other speakers I have you think ?

It looks like you're driving yourself crazy trying to answer all your questions at the same time. You said "the sound [of the Emotiva B1+ speakers] just doesn't seem that impressive, like it's not really clear. Is it 1) the speakers, 2) the location, or 3) something else like the AVR?

First of all, turn off all the electronic room correction efforts by the AVR. Listen to those speakers as they came in their boxes, without any other effort to modify their sound. Turn off any sub-woofer, for now. Do this as soon as you can, without wasting time or confusing yourself over other separate questions, such as room location, AVR sound equalization, etc.

It will help if you pick about 3 pieces of music that you know and like, and use them for all the listening comparisons.

1) Listen to all three pairs of speakers, one pair at a time, to answer the question if one of those speakers sounds better. It doesn't matter what location you use. It might as well be where you now have your speakers. Pick one speaker pair as a first-round favorite.

2) Then, find out if your present arrangement of speakers and listening position is a problem. Try moving the speakers away from that corner by the TV, as far as possible from other walls. It's not a permanent arrangement, think of it as an experiment. The aim is to listen while avoiding possible negative effects of speakers being too close to the corner or walls. Listen to the three pairs of speakers again. Does the new location make all the speakers sound better, or not greatly different? Pick a second-round favorite. Is it the same as the first-round, or different?

3) After you've done that, you can try to answer the question about room correction software. Does it help a speaker's sound, or does it hurt it? That answer might be different depending on the speakers, and will be different different depending on location. Don't do this until after you decide on what speakers to keep, and where they will be located.

All this can take time. Sorting out all these possible problems will provide you some useful answers.

 

[TLS Guy]

Guys, I don't know what this guys expectation was, but I suspect his expectations are way over what is possible with those small speakers.

The old adage still applies: - Do speakers have to be large? No, BUT it really, really helps. I know that to be absolutely true. Paradoxically you have to spend more on good small speakers, than big ones. Building really good small speakers, requires very costly motor systems, as you have to deal with potential excursion limitations and power issues in small drivers. So yes, size matters, and it matters a lot.

 

[Davvy]

It looks like you're driving yourself crazy trying to answer all your questions at the same time. You said "the sound [of the Emotiva B1+ speakers] just doesn't seem that impressive, like it's not really clear. Is it 1) the speakers, 2) the location, or 3) something else like the AVR?

First of all, turn off all the electronic room correction efforts by the AVR. Listen to those speakers as they came in their boxes, without any other effort to modify their sound. Turn off any sub-woofer, for now. Do this as soon as you can, without wasting time or confusing yourself over other separate questions, such as room location, AVR sound equalization, etc.

It will help if you pick about 3 pieces of music that you know and like, and use them for all the listening comparisons.

1) Listen to all three pairs of speakers, one pair at a time, to answer the question if one of those speakers sounds better. It doesn't matter what location you use. It might as well be where you now have your speakers. Pick one speaker pair as a first-round favorite.

2) Then, find out if your present arrangement of speakers and listening position is a problem. Try moving the speakers away from that corner by the TV, as far as possible from other walls. It's not a permanent arrangement, think of it as an experiment. The aim is to listen while avoiding possible negative effects of speakers being too close to the corner or walls. Listen to the three pairs of speakers again. Does the new location make all the speakers sound better, or not greatly different? Pick a second-round favorite. Is it the same as the first-round, or different?

3) After you've done that, you can try to answer the question about room correction software. Does it help a speaker's sound, or does it hurt it? That answer might be different depending on the speakers, and will be different different depending on location. Don't do this until after you decide on what speakers to keep, and where they will be located. I also said

All this can take time. Sorting out all these possible problems will provide you some useful answers.

Your kind of being lord helmet right now, if you would have read my earlier posts you would have seen that I'm not using any RC or using a sub. No I'm not driving myself crazy, all I said the sound is unimpressive and doesn't seem clear. Yes I'm moving stuff around testing each speaker nothing new here, said this already. I just wanted some friendly feedback that's why I included pictures.

 

[Davvy]

Guys, I don't know what this guys expectation was, but I suspect his expectations are way over what is possible with those small speakers.

The old adage still applies: - Do speakers have to be large? No, BUT it really, really helps. I know that to be absolutely true. Paradoxically you have to spend more on good small speakers, than big ones. Building really good small speakers, requires very costly motor systems, as you have to deal with potential excursion limitations and power issues in small drivers. So yes, size matters, and it matters a lot.

No to your first paragraph, my expectations were not over the top, I just thought it would be more clear nothing to do with the bass either.

 

[highfigh]

Your kind of being lord helmet right now, if you would have read my earlier posts you would have seen that I'm not using any RC or using a sub. No I'm not driving myself crazy, all I said the sound is unimpressive and doesn't seem clear. Yes I'm moving stuff around testing each speaker nothing new here. I just wanted some friendly feedback thats why I included pictures.

How do they sound if you sit directly in front of them, at short distance?

 

[Davvy]

Anyway, I moved the speakers out another foot and the speakers sounded more clear, but something was still missing. But my final speakers the Elac Debut Reference are the best sounding and most balanced and be I'll keeping those, in my opinion their better speakers then the other two and they cost the most out of the bunch. My intention from the beginning was to test each speakers in order of their costs. I don't know if this is rare but after just a couple of songs I clicked with the Elac right away. I'm totally satisfied with the sound quality now.

 

[Davvy]

How do they sound if you sit directly in front of them, at short distance?

I found the Elac's to sound good far and close so for gaming that will be good and had a better sound stage. The Bronze audio 100 didn't do great being too close they were better when I was further away, they sounded more thin and the mids didn't seem robust enough. The Emotiva just weren't clear enough for me and missing refinement overall, of coarse this is just my opinion.

 

[TLS Guy]

I found the Elac's to sound good far and close so for gaming that will be good and had a better sound stage. The Bronze audio 100 didn't do great being too close they were better when I was further away, they sounded more thin and the mids didn't seem robust enough. The Emotiva just weren't clear enough for me and missing refinement overall, of coarse this is just my opinion.

As I told you speakers dominate how your system sounds. Those Elac Debut reference bookshelves are superb bookshelf speakers, that measure well. As tp be expected from bookshelves they do not have much bass. The F3 is 50 Hz taking a look at the graph below. So they will sound even better with a sub. If those three speakers the Elac is the best of them by far.

So, you have distinguished yourself as easily being able to pick out good speakers from lousy ones.

 

[highfigh]

I found the Elac's to sound good far and close so for gaming that will be good and had a better sound stage. The Bronze audio 100 didn't do great being too close they were better when I was further away, they sounded more thin and the mids didn't seem robust enough. The Emotiva just weren't clear enough for me and missing refinement overall, of coarse this is just my opinion.

I haven't listened with the MA Bronze bookshelf speakers, but their towers produced strong bass- not accusing, but because it happens pretty easily, could you check the speaker wires at each end, to make sure one end isn't reversed? An easy way to check polarity is to set the balance control to one side- if the bass is stronger at that time, it means something is wrong with the polarity of one speaker or something is absorbing the bass from one speaker.

 

[Davvy]

I haven't listened with the MA Bronze bookshelf speakers, but their towers produced strong bass- not accusing, but because it happens pretty easily, could you check the speaker wires at each end, to make sure one end isn't reversed? An easy way to check polarity is to set the balance control to one side- if the bass is stronger at that time, it means something is wrong with the polarity of one speaker or something is absorbing the bass from one speaker.

Well I will say the Bronze 100 did have good bass, that wasn't the problem. They sounded thin and mids not robust. I always double check the connections when I set up diff speakers. I'm not putting them back up on the stands anymore.

 

[Davvy]

By the way I wanted to ask if I set my volume on my AVR at 50 that doesn't necessarily mean that's 50db, basically the number on the front panel does not represent actual db, it's just a volume number right ?

 

[highfigh]

Well I will say the Bronze 100 did have good bass, that wasn't the problem. They sounded thin and mids not robust. I always double check the connections when I set up diff speakers. I'm not putting them back up on the stands anymore.

Define 'thin'. Thin usually means that the frequency response has an upward tilt from bass through treble, without strong midbass. Decreased mids would cause what we called 'boom/crash' when we described the sound from Japanese speakers in the late-'70s and into the '80s.

Have you used Room EQ Wizard? If so, run a test and post the response, so we can see what may be happening.