Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

[Rylan]

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it. I purchased this Onkyo based on this video review by Andrew Robinson.

In the review he says it’s one of his favorites for many reasons.
It does come with Dirac live ready to use out of the box. It only has 2 subwoofer outs and they are not independent from each other. However at this time I only plan to use one sub. I was reading a review that the Onkyo RZ50 is not capable of doing 4 Atmos?? Can anyone confirm this? The Onkyo is a 9.2. Andrew loves the sound of the Onkyo. After comparing the Denon X3800H to the Onkyo TX-RZ50, the Onkyo still takes the lead in his opinion.

I read one comment from someone saying to choose the Denon X3800H for these reasons:

“looked at both rear panels, and it wasn’t even close. The RZ50 only has 1 set of height channels, whereas the Denon has 2 sets, but, can be configured to 3 pair. The Onkyo has 2 sub outputs, Denon has 4, as well IMAX Enhanced IMAX DTS, Auro3D, and although next year and a fee, you can get Dirac live. The Onkyo retails for $1599, the Denon $1699. It seems you get more bang for your buck with that extra $100! I preordered one! One is that’s it’s a 9.4. It has 4 sub outs and all 4 of them are independent from each other.”

Andrew did also review the Denon 3800 here:

He said that this was by far the most competitive head to head comparison since Onkyo’s RZ50 release last year. Out of the box, Denon has audyssy multi EQ XT32, and sometime in March once a couple firmware updates become available will have Dirac Live (with an additional fee, I wonder that price?)

The price of the Denon used to be quite a few hundred more than the Onkyo, they are now about the same price. I was planning to do a 5.1.4. Will the Onkyo allow for this? Was that comment correct I’m sayin it will only allow for 2 Atmos?

here is another comparison of these two AVR’s side by side: https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x3800h/usa/onkyo-tx-rz50/north-america/

I’m stuck not knowing which receiver to get. Can anyone help shed any light on the potential better choice? I currently plan on doing a 5.1.4, and eventually may add an amp down the road for a 7.1.4. This will be my first receiver and my first home theater set up. I really want to make the best choice and not regret it later because I didn’t do enough research. Although I’m trying to learn a lot and keep diving in deeper as I research home theaters, there is still a lot I don’t understand and need some guidance. Thank you in advance for any advice

 

[lovinthehd]

Why would you buys something just because Andrew Robinson says something positive? When was the last time he did a tear-down? While someone I followed for a bit, just found his reviews to really not be particularly helpful in any sense.

I'd simply choose on feature set myself...and personally don't have a Dirac enabled unit now, but would like to play with one eventually, and the four sub Denon units would take the lead for now....just what do you want/need for now and imagine helpfful in the near future?

 

[Rylan]

Thank you. I’m watching a lot of videos and a ton on audioholics channel too. I probably have information overload. Andrew breaks things down a lot and I feel I’ve learned some things from watching a few reviews. One thing I’m still trying to determine is if this Onkyo and the Denon can play 4 Atmos without an extra amp

 

[gene]

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it. I purchased this Onkyo based on this video review by Andrew Robinson.

In the review he says it’s one of his favorites for many reasons.
It does come with Dirac live ready to use out of the box. It only has 2 subwoofer outs and they are not independent from each other. However at this time I only plan to use one sub. I was reading a review that the Onkyo RZ50 is not capable of doing 4 Atmos?? Can anyone confirm this? The Onkyo is a 9.2. Andrew loves the sound of the Onkyo. After comparing the Denon X3800H to the Onkyo TX-RZ50, the Onkyo still takes the lead in his opinion.

I read one comment from someone saying to choose the Denon X3800H for these reasons:

“looked at both rear panels, and it wasn’t even close. The RZ50 only has 1 set of height channels, whereas the Denon has 2 sets, but, can be configured to 3 pair. The Onkyo has 2 sub outputs, Denon has 4, as well IMAX Enhanced IMAX DTS, Auro3D, and although next year and a fee, you can get Dirac live. The Onkyo retails for $1599, the Denon $1699. It seems you get more bang for your buck with that extra $100! I preordered one! One is that’s it’s a 9.4. It has 4 sub outs and all 4 of them are independent from each other.”

Andrew did also review the Denon 3800 here:

He said that this was by far the most competitive head to head comparison since Onkyo’s RZ50 release last year. Out of the box, Denon has audyssy multi EQ XT32, and sometime in March once a couple firmware updates become available will have Dirac Live (with an additional fee, I wonder that price?)

The price of the Denon used to be quite a few hundred more than the Onkyo, they are now about the same price. I was planning to do a 5.1.4. Will the Onkyo allow for this? Was that comment correct I’m sayin it will only allow for 2 Atmos?

here is another comparison of these two AVR’s side by side: https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x3800h/usa/onkyo-tx-rz50/north-america/

I’m stuck not knowing which receiver to get. Can anyone help shed any light on the potential better choice? I currently plan on doing a 5.1.4, and eventually may add an amp down the road for a 7.1.4. This will be my first receiver and my first home theater set up. I really want to make the best choice and not regret it later because I didn’t do enough research. Although I’m trying to learn a lot and keep diving in deeper as I research home theaters, there is still a lot I don’t understand and need some guidance. Thank you in advance for any advice

Be careful with Andrew's "reviews". Production value is off the charts but he puts forth very little technical knowledge and his reviews are purely subjective often with little basis in facts, IMO.

Both the Denon and Onkyo have a 9CH amp built in so if you want to run 4 heights, you can't run backs without external amplification. They can however support a 5.1.4 speaker layout with all internal amplification. Both AVRs have 11CH processing so you can run a 7.1.4 speaker layout with a 2CH amp. The Denon has 4 independent sub outs which is nice if you run 4 subs and want independent delay and trims and EQ for each.

Both are good choices IMO though I haven't bench tested the Onkyo. I did bench test an older Integra model and found it had a great preamp section but weak amp section, not very good at driving 4 ohm loads. This Onkyo looks a bit more stout than the Integra DRX4.3, however. I may test one next year.

Stay tuned for a BIG contest announcement from us in January that relates to this!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it.

The one and only time I ever bought an Onkyo was from Circuit City (which later became bankrupted).

I put the box in my car. Drove about 5 miles. Turned around. Drove back to Circuit City and got a refund. So I had the Onkyo for about 15 minutes.

And this was way before Onkyo started filing bankruptcy about every other year.

Does it matter to you if you bought an AVR from a company that later files bankruptcy the next year?

So you have to ask yourself what are the salients factors in buying any AVR.

Customer Service? Reliability? Warranty? Bankruptcy? Features?

 

[Rylan]

I appreciate the feedback. Great advice. Im certain I follow, but just to confirm, I will not need a preamp on either AVR if I’m configuring a 5.1.4 or a 7.1.2? The last 2 internal channels can be used for either rear surrounds or for Atmos? I’m then assuming I program the AVR to the exact location of those channels and this is what determines which sounds are going to those speakers which I’m then able to do 4 Atmos if I choose? this might be a pretty basic question, but I don’t want to just assume something that I’ve never tried doing before.

With Denon not coming loaded with Dirac out of the box, is that a reason to not consider Denon? Do you have any personal use/ results with Dirac over Audyssey?

Has anyone read what the price may be to add Dirac later this spring? I’m curious how much weight these platforms should play in my decision for an AVR?

Lastly, I will purchase the 4 year geek protection from Best Buy so if anything does go wrong or if the AVR ends up being a bit buggy, they said they’d replace it or give me in store credit at the end of four years, I can upgrade to a different AVR and even a different brand of I want. They said that’s really easy. I can even add another 4 year protection to the new receiver at that time. For the above reasons, I’m not too concerned about what ends up happening with Onkyo as a business from the standpoint of not being protected through warranty

 

[PENG]

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it. I purchased this Onkyo based on this video review by Andrew Robinson.

In the review he says it’s one of his favorites for many reasons.
It does come with Dirac live ready to use out of the box. It only has 2 subwoofer outs and they are not independent from each other. However at this time I only plan to use one sub. I was reading a review that the Onkyo RZ50 is not capable of doing 4 Atmos?? Can anyone confirm this? The Onkyo is a 9.2. Andrew loves the sound of the Onkyo. After comparing the Denon X3800H to the Onkyo TX-RZ50, the Onkyo still takes the lead in his opinion.

I read one comment from someone saying to choose the Denon X3800H for these reasons:

“looked at both rear panels, and it wasn’t even close. The RZ50 only has 1 set of height channels, whereas the Denon has 2 sets, but, can be configured to 3 pair. The Onkyo has 2 sub outputs, Denon has 4, as well IMAX Enhanced IMAX DTS, Auro3D, and although next year and a fee, you can get Dirac live. The Onkyo retails for $1599, the Denon $1699. It seems you get more bang for your buck with that extra $100! I preordered one! One is that’s it’s a 9.4. It has 4 sub outs and all 4 of them are independent from each other.”

Andrew did also review the Denon 3800 here:

He said that this was by far the most competitive head to head comparison since Onkyo’s RZ50 release last year. Out of the box, Denon has audyssy multi EQ XT32, and sometime in March once a couple firmware updates become available will have Dirac Live (with an additional fee, I wonder that price?)

The price of the Denon used to be quite a few hundred more than the Onkyo, they are now about the same price. I was planning to do a 5.1.4. Will the Onkyo allow for this? Was that comment correct I’m sayin it will only allow for 2 Atmos?

here is another comparison of these two AVR’s side by side: https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x3800h/usa/onkyo-tx-rz50/north-america/

I’m stuck not knowing which receiver to get. Can anyone help shed any light on the potential better choice? I currently plan on doing a 5.1.4, and eventually may add an amp down the road for a 7.1.4. This will be my first receiver and my first home theater set up. I really want to make the best choice and not regret it later because I didn’t do enough research. Although I’m trying to learn a lot and keep diving in deeper as I research home theaters, there is still a lot I don’t understand and need some guidance. Thank you in advance for any advice

I would not buy any avr based on those online/youtube reviews if you focus on their claim on sound quality they perceived. Their views are typically highly subjective, and their opinions on sound quality expressed in those typical professional reviewer's big words were at times so obvious that hearsay, expectation bias, placebo effects were at work. As far as the RZ50 vs X3800H on sound quality, you will find many will say O better than D while many will say D better than O, what Mr. Robinson said on that would apply to him and other who felt the same but it may not apply to you at all. Most likely if listened under the exact condition in pure direct mode for music, they will sound the same is used within their limits. That's a much more reliable forecast because it would be based on objective measurements that are repeatable and not influenced by bias.

If you were to base your choice on features highlighted by them such as Robinson's then that's fine, though I would still suggest you download the product sheets, owner's manuals etc., and then compare the features for yourself. Dirac Live is great, but if you use the $20 app, in the 20-300 Hz range, the X3800H can smooth the bass very well too, and it offers similar flexibility for you to customer the target curve to you liking.
Between the two, I would take the Denon for sure because Denon's reliability track record has been very good, not sure I can say the same about Onkyo's. I have used and owned a total of 5 Denon AVRs in the past 17 years and even the 17 year old AVR-3805 is still working 100%. Just traded in my AVR-X4400H and got good money on it so I know it keeps its value well.

 

[PENG]

Be careful with Andrew's "reviews". Production value is off the charts but he puts forth very little technical knowledge and his reviews are purely subjective often with little basis in facts, IMO.

He said, the AVR-X3700H sounded warm, but in this review he said the X3800H sounded, forward, bold...etc., iirc.., so hilarious. Those two have the same design/circuitry, same volume control, DAC and opamps, and the power amps, based on what I consider reliable indicators would be identical, so go figure..

 

[PENG]

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it. I purchased this Onkyo based on this video review by Andrew Robinson.


here is another comparison of these two AVR’s side by side: https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x3800h/usa/onkyo-tx-rz50/north-america/

That site is good for quick comparison to come up with a short list, but if you are careful enough to come here and ask questions before you made your final decision, you should actually compare manufacturers product info sheets and owner's manuals.

It scored the Onkyo higher on the power amp section because apparently they simply compare their advertised specs without looking at the output power a the specified conditions.

For those two you can actually compare their objective measurements:

Note that the RZ-50 did much worse than the Denon with 4 ohm test resistor load. It's pream/dac section seemed fine.

Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Onkyo:

Denon:

 

[PENG]

I appreciate the feedback. Great advice. Im certain I follow, but just to confirm, I will not need a preamp on either AVR if I’m configuring a 5.1.4 or a 7.1.2? The last 2 internal channels can be used for either rear surrounds or for Atmos? I’m then assuming I program the AVR to the exact location of those channels and this is what determines which sounds are going to those speakers which I’m then able to do 4 Atmos if I choose? this might be a pretty basic question, but I don’t want to just assume something that I’ve never tried doing before.

With Denon not coming loaded with Dirac out of the box, is that a reason to not consider Denon? Do you have any personal use/ results with Dirac over Audyssey?

Has anyone read what the price may be to add Dirac later this spring? I’m curious how much weight these platforms should play in my decision for an AVR?

Lastly, I will purchase the 4 year geek protection from Best Buy so if anything does go wrong or if the AVR ends up being a bit buggy, they said they’d replace it or give me in store credit at the end of four years, I can upgrade to a different AVR and even a different brand of I want. They said that’s really easy. I can even add another 4 year protection to the new receiver at that time. For the above reasons, I’m not too concerned about what ends up happening with Onkyo as a business from the standpoint of not being protected through warranty

Apparently, the upgrade price would be $349 without DLBC. Some interesting reads for you:

Dirac Roadmap for 2022 Denon & Marantz AV Products | Audioholics

The *OFFICIAL* 2023 Denon AVR / AVC - A1H 15.4ch Flagship AVR Owners Thread | AVS Forum

Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

You have been careful so far doing your research, so take your time to do it thoroughly.

 

[Rylan]

Apparently, the upgrade price would be $349 without DLBC. Some interesting reads for you:

Dirac Roadmap for 2022 Denon & Marantz AV Products | Audioholics

The *OFFICIAL* 2023 Denon AVR / AVC - A1H 15.4ch Flagship AVR Owners Thread | AVS Forum

Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

You have been careful so far doing your research, so take your time to do it thoroughly.

Thank you! I appreciate the expert input. I will check out all your links and continue to compare. Thanks for taking the time to help

 

[Rylan]

Apparently, the upgrade price would be $349 without DLBC. Some interesting reads for you:

Dirac Roadmap for 2022 Denon & Marantz AV Products | Audioholics

The *OFFICIAL* 2023 Denon AVR / AVC - A1H 15.4ch Flagship AVR Owners Thread | AVS Forum

Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

You have been careful so far doing your research, so take your time to do it thoroughly.

After looking at the links you provided and reading that last Audio Science Review on the Onkyo RZ50, I also looked up their review on the Denon x3800h. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3800h-review.38574/

They do not recommend either AVR . I thought I had narrowed down my pick to one of these two, but now I’m feeling even more unsure of what AVR after doing the reading. I think A big part from me is the fact that I’m spending that much money on an AVR, I want to make sure it’s what I need. Maybe I’m getting to the point where I’m overthinking everything and expecting too much

 

[PENG]

After looking at the links you provided and reading that last Audio Science Review on the Onkyo RZ50, I also looked up their review on the Denon x3800h. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3800h-review.38574/

They do not recommend either AVR . I thought I had narrowed down my pick to one of these two, but now I’m feeling even more unsure of what AVR after doing the reading. I think A big part from me is the fact that I’m spending that much money on an AVR, I want to make sure it’s what I need. Maybe I’m getting to the point where I’m overthinking everything and expecting too much

To be clear, Amir did not recommend the Denon only because of the higher distortions of the pre out due to the dac used to replace the original AKM dac that is no longer available due to the factory fire.

The Onkyo RZ50 likely had to replace that same AKM DAC too so while it's pre out did measure better on ASR, we do not know if you get a new one that it would have a different dac than the original AKM's AK4458 originally used by both Onkyo and Denon or not. That is an unknown.

However, if you compare the power amp output measurements, the Denon tested still has much lower distortions than the Onkyo's, though both likely have distortions low enough for humans. But the Onkyo's output into 4 ohm is not good, not acceptable, in my opinion. So if you are going to use the AVR as an AVR without external amps, the Denon should be better. If you are to use the AVR as a preamp processor, and external power amps for all channels, then the Onkyo may be better, but again, only if they substituted the AK4458 chip with something better than the one Denon is using. I do not know who has the answer to the DAC question. You can email Onkyo about that, but I doubt they will tell you.

If one can wait, it is better to wait for the 2023/24 models that hopefully will have more and therefore better choice of DAC chips. Again, that's for people like you and I who tend to overthink a little. Most AVR users will not hear a difference between DACs that have distortions at 0.008% vs 0.001%.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After looking at the links you provided and reading that last Audio Science Review on the Onkyo RZ50, I also looked up their review on the Denon x3800h. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3800h-review.38574/

They do not recommend either AVR .

You need to just look at the measurements and just ignore what that guy recommends.

So he didn’t “recommend” the X3800 because it has a THD+N of 0.004%.

Now tell me, do you see anything wrong with a THD+N of 0.004%?

I guess the X3800 missed the 0.003% THD+N (SINAD 90dB) mark.

Denon X3700 0.001% THD = recommended
Denon X3800 0.004% THD = NOT recommended

My RX-A3080 is like 0.008% THD, so I guess ASR would crucify it even though nobody could possibly hear THD of 0.008%.

 

[Rylan]

You need to just look at the measurements, and just completely ignore what that guy says.

So he didn’t “recommend” the X3800 because it has a THD+N of 0.004%.

Now tell me, do you see anything wrong with a THD+N of 0.004%?

I guess the X3800 missed the 0.003% THD+N (SINAD 90dB) mark.

Denon X3700 0.001% THD = recommended
Denon X3800 0.004% THD = NOT recommended

My RX-A3080 is like 0.008% THD, so I guess ASR would crucify it even though nobody could possibly hear THD of 0.008%.

Thanks! Man, a lot of this terminology is so far over my head. I’m trying to learn it but it sure won’t happen overnight. Basically what I’m gathering is I would be happy with either purchase and the issues he came up with are really not even audible. That helps. When I hear a bunch of negative talk about a product, and the terminology is over my head, I lean towards steering clear, so thank you for help clear this up

 

[Trell]

Thanks! Man, a lot of this terminology is so far over my head. I’m trying to learn it but it sure won’t happen overnight. Basically what I’m gathering is I would be happy with either purchase and the issues he came up with are really not even audible. That helps. When I hear a bunch of negative talk about a product, and the terminology is over my head, I lean towards steering clear, so thank you for help clear this up

What the reviewer did not like was the regression in performance compared to earlier models along with a big price hike, and he made clear what he thinks about that. Some people don’t care about performance regressions and belittle others who does. In this case Denon could have chosen another DAC IC (as the old one was unavailable due to AKM factory fire) and kept the performance, but Denon did not and the one you quoted thinks thats just fine.

 

[Rictor133]

I like the rz50 too but opted for the Yamaha A4A for the build quality and don’t care to take a leap of faith in a restructured company.

 

[gene]

To be clear, Amir did not recommend the Denon only because of the higher distortions of the pre out due to the dac used to replace the original AKM dac that is no longer available due to the factory fire.

The Onkyo RZ50 likely had to replace that same AKM DAC too so while it's pre out did measure better on ASR, we do not know if you get a new one that it would have a different dac than the original AKM's AK4458 originally used by both Onkyo and Denon or not. That is an unknown.

However, if you compare the power amp output measurements, the Denon tested still has much lower distortions than the Onkyo's, though both likely have distortions low enough for humans. But the Onkyo's output into 4 ohm is not good, not acceptable, in my opinion. So if you are going to use the AVR as an AVR without external amps, the Denon should be better. If you are to use the AVR as a preamp processor, and external power amps for all channels, then the Onkyo may be better, but again, only if they substituted the AK4458 chip with something better than the one Denon is using. I do not know who has the answer to the DAC question. You can email Onkyo about that, but I doubt they will tell you.

If one can wait, it is better to wait for the 2023/24 models that hopefully will have more and therefore better choice of DAC chips. Again, that's for people like you and I who tend to overthink a little. Most AVR users will not hear a difference between DACs that have distortions at 0.008% vs 0.001%.

Yes unfortunately the AKM and other supply chain issues causes problems with existing parts and swapping to alternatives without a redesign is challenging. Marantz sent me a post covid SR8015 and I found it's distortion to be significantly higher than the SR8015 I reviewed that's still in my AV rack. Although the distortion is higher, it's inaudible so it's always important to put these things into perspective. AMIR almost never does and his recommendations chase SINAD which is a mistake IMO.

 

[Rylan]

To be clear, Amir did not recommend the Denon only because of the higher distortions of the pre out due to the dac used to replace the original AKM dac that is no longer available due to the factory fire.

The Onkyo RZ50 likely had to replace that same AKM DAC too so while it's pre out did measure better on ASR, we do not know if you get a new one that it would have a different dac than the original AKM's AK4458 originally used by both Onkyo and Denon or not. That is an unknown.

However, if you compare the power amp output measurements, the Denon tested still has much lower distortions than the Onkyo's, though both likely have distortions low enough for humans. But the Onkyo's output into 4 ohm is not good, not acceptable, in my opinion. So if you are going to use the AVR as an AVR without external amps, the Denon should be better. If you are to use the AVR as a preamp processor, and external power amps for all channels, then the Onkyo may be better, but again, only if they substituted the AK4458 chip with something better than the one Denon is using. I do not know who has the answer to the DAC question. You can email Onkyo about that, but I doubt they will tell you.

If one can wait, it is better to wait for the 2023/24 models that hopefully will have more and therefore better choice of DAC chips. Again, that's for people like you and I who tend to overthink a little. Most AVR users will not hear a difference between DACs that have distortions at 0.008% vs 0.001%.

I will send an email to Onkyo about the dac and see if they have any information they are willing to share. For now my plan is to use only the internal amps. I may also purchase the Denon x3800h and then compare listening between the Onkyo RZ50, then I’ll return the one i decide not to keep.

I do not have any 4 ohm speakers. I did attach the specs on my new RSL speakers (which I have not tested yet). The first attachment, the CG23’s, will be my RCL. The CG3’s which will be my 2 surrounds. The second attachment is for my 2 Atmos, and the last page is for my subwoofer. If you have a chance, please look at these specs and see how well you think they’d perform with either AVR. I do know you said… “So if you are going to use the AVR as an AVR without external amps, the Denon should be better.”

I figured it may be helpful to share what setup I’ll be using

 

[PENG]

I will send an email to Onkyo about the dac and see if they have any information they are willing to share. For now my plan is to use only the internal amps. I may also purchase the Denon x3800h and then compare listening between the Onkyo RZ50, then I’ll return the one i decide not to keep.

I do not have any 4 ohm speakers. I did attach the specs on my new RSL speakers (which I have not tested yet). The first attachment, the CG23’s, will be my RCL. The CG3’s which will be my 2 surrounds. The second attachment is for my 2 Atmos, and the last page is for my subwoofer. If you have a chance, please look at these specs and see how well you think they’d perform with either AVR. I do know you said… “So if you are going to use the AVR as an AVR without external amps, the Denon should be better.”

I figured it may be helpful to share what setup I’ll be using

Will look at those specs later.