8K upscaling question?

[Rylan]

I am looking at getting the Denon X2700H AVR which has 8K upscaling. I’m new to this and don’t understand what 8K upscaling can do for me? I have an 85” Samsung QLED 4K TV. I also just purchased a Sony 4K UBP-X700/M Blu-Ray player. Can my TV play 8K video using the 8K upscaling through the AVR even though it’s a 4K tv? I’m not finding great info when searching online about upscaling. I also read online that there are ways to make sure your TV is set for 4K when sometimes it’s not set that way when you purchase it?


These are my purchases

85”QLED

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-85-class-q70a-series-qled-4k-uhd-smart-tizen-tv/6452061.p?skuId=6452061#anchor=productVariations

Denon X2700H AVR

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/denon-avr-x2700h-8k-ultra-hd-7-2-channel-95-watt-x-7-av-receiver-3d-audio-video-built-for-gaming-black/6421385.p?skuId=6421385#tab=buyingOptions?bof=openbox

Sony Blu-Ray

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-ubp-x700-m-streaming-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-player-with-hdmi-cable-black/6454118.p?skuId=6454118l

High Speed HDMI cable

https://www.amazon.com/Bonded-Pair-High-Speed-Cable-Ethernet-Black/dp/B0026O0LIE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?keywords=blue+jeans+cable+hdmi+9+feet&qid=1556779835&s=gateway&sr=8-3-fkmrnull&linkCode=sl1&tag=audioholics-20&linkId=5e6fea300c297a01610238008aed8c39&language=en_US

RSL Speakers + 2 of their Atmos

CG23M 5.1 Home Theater Speaker System - RSL Speakers

rslspeakers.com

 

[BMXTRIX]

To answer your question: 8K is stupid. It offers you zero benefit whatsoever. Unless you are sitting 4 feet or less from an 85" TV, you can't even visibly perceive 8K video.

Your 4K TV doesn't support 8K anyway, so it's not something to think about at all.

Just enjoy 4K as it is. It looks great, and even the 4K resolution isn't the big thing you will enjoy. It's the HDR and better contrast that can be delivered with it along with an expanded color palette. You are overthinking this one. Resolution is not a major consideration in image quality.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

agreed with BMX. https://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/ - says to get all available details from 8k and 85" screen, you need to sit 3ft or closer. ie: Not practical. Even for 4k, the distance is only 5ft, which again no one sits this close to 85" screen.

 

[j_garcia]

I've seen 8K screens in person when I was in Taiwan. Looks amazing with their canned show off content, but with basically zero consumer content, it will not be useful. I don't see the industry moving to 8K when 4k is still barely being adopted. While most may own 4K TVs these days, they may not all be watching true 4K content on them.

 

[Rylan]

Thank you for the feedback. That was very helpful info. I appreciate all the insight

 

[-Jim-]

@Rylan Just a quick bit of advice. Your Samsung TV will do a better job of upscaling content than the receiver. (At least with my AVR-X4400h.) Just set the AVR to pass through the video after making certain your HDMI cables meet spec, and enjoy.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm not sure the avr is but capable of 8k pass thru....and if you did have an 8k display, then I'd probably just use that for processing rather than the avr in any case. Been a while since I used video processing in an avr (and that was for a legacy source, which I no longer even use).

 

[Rylan]

I'm not sure the avr is but capable of 8k pass thru....and if you did have an 8k display, then I'd probably just use that for processing rather than the avr in any case. Been a while since I used video processing in an avr (and that was for a legacy source, which I no longer even use).

This is from Audioholics review on my AVR

​

HDMI 2.1 On ALL Inputs!
HDMI 2.1 is the most recent update of the HDMI spec and supports eARC, a range of higher video resolutions and refresh rates including 8K60 and 4K120, and Dynamic HDR formats. 8K delivers a super-immersive viewing experience with 2x the horizontal and vertical resolution of 4K, and 4 times as many pixels; and combined with 60Hz refresh rate enables smooth and sharp viewing of content with high-speed action. HDMI 2.1 with 8K and eARC ensures your system is ready for the clearest and cleanest picture available both now and down the road. With eARC the TX-RZ50 supports the latest high-bitrate audio formats including Dolby Atmos, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS: X, Dolby TrueHD.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is from Audioholics review on my AVR

​

HDMI 2.1 On ALL Inputs!
HDMI 2.1 is the most recent update of the HDMI spec and supports eARC, a range of higher video resolutions and refresh rates including 8K60 and 4K120, and Dynamic HDR formats. 8K delivers a super-immersive viewing experience with 2x the horizontal and vertical resolution of 4K, and 4 times as many pixels; and combined with 60Hz refresh rate enables smooth and sharp viewing of content with high-speed action. HDMI 2.1 with 8K and eARC ensures your system is ready for the clearest and cleanest picture available both now and down the road. With eARC the TX-RZ50 supports the latest high-bitrate audio formats including Dolby Atmos, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS: X, Dolby TrueHD.

Seems it has a lot of HDMI 2.1 inputs, and support for related tech but not sure what your point is with processing particularly just based on this....

 

[Rylan]

Sorry wrong screenshot.
Yes it does support 8K pass-through

“TX-RZ50 supports HDR10, HDR10+, Dolby Vision, 8K Upscaling, 8K Passthrough”

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry wrong screenshot.
Yes it does support 8K pass-through

“TX-RZ50 supports HDR10, HDR10+, Dolby Vision, 8K Upscaling, 8K Passthrough”

My question was more about what you want in the way of actual video processing in the avr (vs simple passthru, which I'd do)

 

[-Jim-]

@Rylan Whoa! I just looked at the price for that Blue Jeans HDMI Cable and I'm certain there are better HDMI 2.1 deals out there on Amazon or Monoprice 2.1 HDMI ! (Like 80% less!) If you were in Canada, I'd try Prime Cables. Also, try to keep these cables just the right length so they don't put unnecessary strain on the HDMI connectors on your TV or AVR (receiver).

By the way I have a Samsung 75" 2021 QN85A Neo 4K Smart QLED TV which is fabulous, but has the crappiest manual I've ever seen from a top tier OEM. I expect yours manual may be the same. If you stream to your TV you'll want to enable eArc to feed the lossless audio from those sources back to your AVR.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Rylan]

@Rylan Whoa! I just looked at the price for that Blue Jeans HDMI Cable and I'm certain there are better HDMI 2.1 deals out there on Amazon or Monoprice 2.1 HDMI ! (Like 80% less!) If you were in Canada, I'd try Prime Cables. Also, try to keep these cables just the right length so they don't put unnecessary strain on the HDMI connectors on your TV or AVR (receiver).

By the way I have a Samsung 75" 2021 QN85A Neo 4K Smart QLED TV which is fabulous, but has the crappiest manual I've ever seen from a top tier OEM. I expect yours manual may be the same. If you stream to your TV you'll want to enable eArc to feed the lossless audio from those sources back to your AVR.

I hope this is helpful.

Thank you Jim. I am ordering to HDMI cables for mono price today. I will return the blue Jean cables. I only ordered those cables because Gene from Audioholics mentioned them in one of his videos.

Is 10ft in length getting a bit long for an HDMI cable for jeopardizing quality? I’m planning on running my cables for my TV into my wall down the wall and back out to my entertainment stand and I need about 10 feet to accomplish this.

 

[Trebdp83]

My 10’ Ultra Certified cables from Monoprice have been great. The 8K capabilities of AVRs from HDMI 2.1 are currently used more for 4K HDR @120Hz gaming. Even then, only a very few TVs support 48Gbps for the largest uncompressed signals and most devices featuring HDMI 2.1 are limited to 40Gbps and some are limited to 24Gbps.

 

[-Jim-]

Thank you Jim. I am ordering to HDMI cables for mono price today. I will return the blue Jean cables. I only ordered those cables because Gene from Audioholics mentioned them in one of his videos.

Is 10ft in length getting a bit long for an HDMI cable for jeopardizing quality? I’m planning on running my cables for my TV into my wall down the wall and back out to my entertainment stand and I need about 10 feet to accomplish this.

The certified Monoprice 2.1 HDMI cables will have no problem performing at 10 feet long. Issue arise at beyond 15 feet or so.

I'm glad to be helpful.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Thank you Jim. I am ordering to HDMI cables for mono price today. I will return the blue Jean cables. I only ordered those cables because Gene from Audioholics mentioned them in one of his videos.

Is 10ft in length getting a bit long for an HDMI cable for jeopardizing quality? I’m planning on running my cables for my TV into my wall down the wall and back out to my entertainment stand and I need about 10 feet to accomplish this.

Linus Tech Tips did 8K/48Gb/s testing on a bunch of HDMI cables. The results can be found in an Excel spreadsheet on this page:

I Spent a THOUSAND Dollars on HDMI Cables.. for Science

We told you we’d do it, and here it is! Testing a whackload of HDMI 2.1 and 2.0 cables to find out if you’ve been wasting your money on cables for no good reason. Data from tests is attached to this post. If you are an educator or otherwise have a legitimate reason for wanting to look at the .jso...

linustechtips.com

I am sure there will be follow up testing and reporting which they will provide in the upcoming years, but this information can help you figure out which cables can pass the test for full 8K support at this time.

Since you are going up a wall a relatively short distance, make sure you can swap the cables out in the future should/when they fail.

The MAIN feature of most 8K capable inputs is that they support 4K/120hz inputs, which is mostly useful for gaming. Kind of.

 

[lovinthehd]

Interesting the results table is setup to show 2.0 or 2.1 as type when that's not even a cable designation. Where's the bandwidth rating? I don't have what it takes to look at the .7z file apparently.

Linus Tech Tips did 8K/48Gb/s testing on a bunch of HDMI cables. The results can be found in an Excel spreadsheet on this page:

I Spent a THOUSAND Dollars on HDMI Cables.. for Science

We told you we’d do it, and here it is! Testing a whackload of HDMI 2.1 and 2.0 cables to find out if you’ve been wasting your money on cables for no good reason. Data from tests is attached to this post. If you are an educator or otherwise have a legitimate reason for wanting to look at the .jso...

linustechtips.com

I am sure there will be follow up testing and reporting which they will provide in the upcoming years, but this information can help you figure out which cables can pass the test for full 8K support at this time.

Since you are going up a wall a relatively short distance, make sure you can swap the cables out in the future should/when they fail.

The MAIN feature of most 8K capable inputs is that they support 4K/120hz inputs, which is mostly useful for gaming. Kind of.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Interesting the results table is setup to show 2.0 or 2.1 as type when that's not even a cable designation. Where's the bandwidth rating? I don't have what it takes to look at the .7z file apparently.

A .7z would be a 7-zip file format, but I think all that matters really is the Excel spreadsheet.

HDMI 2.0 is a 18Gb/s cable bandwidth.
HDMI 2.1 is a 48Gb/s cable bandwidth.

The real takeaway is that almost ALL cables at 6' were just fine across the board. But, once you hit 10', things can be a bit more hit or miss.

 

[lovinthehd]

A .7z would be a 7-zip file format, but I think all that matters really is the Excel spreadsheet.

HDMI 2.0 is a 18Gb/s cable bandwidth.
HDMI 2.1 is a 48Gb/s cable bandwidth.

The real takeaway is that almost ALL cables at 6' were just fine across the board. But, once you hit 10', things can be a bit more hit or miss.

Funny since some hdmi "2.1" gear doesn't have 48gbs bandwidth....

 

[BMXTRIX]

Funny since some hdmi "2.1" gear doesn't have 48gbs bandwidth....

That's a HDMI.org group issue more than anything else. When LTT tests their cables, they are testing up to the full 48Gb/s that HDMI 2.1 allows.

What the HDMI group allows is completely assinine and stupid IMO. The same is true of what the USB group allows and their naming conventions.

HDMI eARC is a HDMI 2.1 feature, and requires no upgrade, that I'm actually aware of, in terms of data rates. So, you can use eARC (HDMI 2.1), with standard HDMI 2.0 cables. There are a host of other HDMI 2.1 features that require no additional bandwidth as well. It's kinda crazy. There are only some specific resolutions that fully saturate 48Gb/s cables, and almost nothing actually supports that. Displays may max out at 40Gb/s or less. Game consoles (PS/XBox) don't reach that 48Gb/s mark. So, we are just hearing so many people talk about HDMI 2.1 who don't realize how silly it all is right now.

Get a 4K cable, call it a day. Unless you're an avid gamer, in which case, make sure you're working with displays and equipment that fully support every aspect of what you are doing. Then just get a certified 8K cable that's 6 feet long and it almost definitely won't have any issues at all.