audioquest tornado

[lovinthehd]

Anyone else have an opinion on speaker cables, is that snake oil too?

There are a lot of snake oil cable sellers, yes. Too many unfortunately, Fraudioquest among the worst (but most successful). Try this website from a former director of McIntosh http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm, particularly check out the wire table for appropriate gauge.

12g is generally more than adequate, assuming it is copper rather than CCA (copper clad/coated aluminum). CCA can be viable but generally its simply not worth it for a coupla reasons.

 

[lovinthehd]

Here are some Audioholic videos on the subject

 

[NINaudio]

I'm pretty sure the op replied to my yt comment the other day and I invited him to the forums to ask about it... lol.

View attachment 50894

Oh man, I hope he can return those. The MSRP on those power cables is more than the MSRP of his speakers.

 

[Pogre]

Oh man, I hope he can return those. The MSRP on those power cables is more than the MSRP of his speakers.

It's funny, I just made an off hand comment on one of gene's videos and 3 different guys popped in there to defend their cable bias. One of them even invoked Paul McGowan. I invited all of them to hop over here to discuss, tho honestly I thought this last one was just trolling me.

 

[ryanosaur]

Oh man, I hope he can return those. The MSRP on those power cables is more than the MSRP of his speakers.

Ya. 1000-1700 retail depending on the length!
I hate to type it out loud, but some people have more dollars than sense. Sorry OP, but this is just a simple truth. If you were to sit down in a Double Blind Test, I would bet the farm on the fact you won't hear a difference.

I may as well offer my Magic Wand service... it'll be a bargain. For $2K per visit, I'll bring my wand, wave it over a persons gear, say a special incantation which I developed after 3 years meditating in a cave high atop Mt. Shasta while subsisting on a strict diet of air and saliva. It is guaranteed to produce results which you would be astounded by! Incremental at first, the power of the incantation synergistcally builds over the full 10 visits resulting in an exponential increase in SQ. Clarity, Punch, Chocolatey Mids, even the Pace Rhythm and Timing: your system will be transformed as if all the power of the cosmos were inside your Rig.

While in that cave, I found a rare impact from a cosmic body. I painstakingly psychically extruded this wand from the cosmic minerals, none found naturally occurring on Earth, hand polished in my own blood as I massaged it with my fingers for untold months. I still am without fingerprints as the power of this wand has subsumed part of my own identity into its very core. So deep is the bond I formed with this wand while in meditation, I cannot allow another's gaze to fall upon it for the wand will instantly disintegrate and with it, my life force will immediately be dispersed back into the universe.

Hmmm.

I should just start a cable business. I think more people will fall for it.

 

[Pogre]

I should just start a cable business. I think more people will fall for it.

I swear this thought has crossed my mind more than once! I just need to bone up on my pseudoscientific lingo, vague descriptions and insert "quantum effect" into every other sentence.

 

[Eppie]

Anyone else have an opinion on speaker cables, is that snake oil too?

Agree with the others that 12 gauge copper cable is more than sufficient. Copper is a better conductor than silver, actually. The gold plating on connectors is just to prevent corrosion as copper and silver will oxidize while gold will not. There is no science to show that expensive cables make any audible difference. Just a lot of flowery language in marketing hype. All you are paying for is looks and the imagined improvement in sound. Nothing wrong with getting good looking cables though, but pricing should be similar to what Blue Jeans Cables offers. Not the hundreds or thousands that others are asking.

You can even build your own. Get some 12 gauge cable from Monoprice (like the 2747) and you can purchase sleeving to cover the outside. Use heat shrink tubing to dress up the ends. Heat shrink is available in different colours so you can design them to your taste. Here's a nice example of a DIY cable. Note that they double up on 16 gauge to increase the effective gauge (smaller number, heavier gauge cable).

 

[CajunLB]

Yup.

Tornado because it sucks up all your cash and blows it away!

Please consider that an aftermarket power cable just delivers electrons from your existing in-wall, non-audiophile Romex cable, to the very same wiring in your AVR or AVP.
Does a 3' power cable somehow magically make electrons different somehow?


The short answer is no. The electrons don't need to be massaged with beer or sake, they don't care if someone found a way to extrude a single crystal copper conductor...
People buy this cr@p because they are chasing the dragon and convince themselves that quantum tunneling somehow means something. They have to believe it, too, because they spent something like $1000-$1700 on a flipping power cable that the manufacturer gives you for free!


In short, it has been pointed out that most of these companies don't even have real engineers on staff... but they have marketing heads for days!

Spend your money wisely on Better Speakers, and get yourself some decent quality pure copper speaker cable. Don't worry about the power cord, unless you plan to install your own special wiring from the Power Sub station to your home on your own private power poles! Oh, and rewire your house, install new outlets, oh and a special balanced sub-panel would be required too...

Oh, and I almost forgot: AH Drinking Game... Everybody take a shot!

Don’t forget the all important Audiophile telephone post that was discussed a few years back.

 

[ryanosaur]

Don’t forget the all important Audiophile telephone post that was discussed a few years back.

See my post number 10 on this thread. It's in that thread!

 

[j_garcia]

I tried an aftermarket power cable some years back just because I like to see for myself. There is NO DIFFERENCE.

You get two types of people who are going to say these things about a product like this: those who are easily misled by false claims and those who are trying to sell you something.

 

[Eppie]

It's funny, I just made an off hand comment on one of gene's videos and 3 different guys popped in there to defend their cable bias. One of them even invoked Paul McGowan. I invited all of them to hop over here to discuss, tho honestly I thought this last one was just trolling me.

There's one thing I wish people would do. Ask about these cables BEFORE they make the purchase. All too often we see people asking about cables after they have spent exorbitant amounts of money, often after they have already convinced themselves of the audible improvement. The last thing they want to hear is that they wasted their money.

 

[ryanosaur]

There's one thing I wish people would do. Ask about these cables BEFORE they make the purchase.

That would be completely contrary to the facets of well documented "chasing the dragon" and "more dollars than sense" situations that seem to be firmly behind this phenomenon in audio.
While the latter is not necessary, given the ease with which a person can buy on credit these days, I think it is the former that really drives people to look for that extra little bit that will bring the spine tingly sensation back.
But just like those first precious times you get high, you will never have THAT experience again.
But our psychology is such that somehow we know if we just keep trying, we'll get there.

And while I will never fault a person for getting high the first time, I will likely always giggle a little when, years later, I hear a "friend" say "why isn't it the same?"

 

[Pogre]

Anyone else have an opinion on speaker cables, is that snake oil too?

Yes. For sure it's another scam, and it's really frustrating because so many people use flawed, inaccurate methods to do the comparisons, draw inaccurate conclusions and spread misinformation. I'm not necessarily saying it's always intentional. It's more like indoctrination, and potential buyers are usually primed. Expectation bias is real and demonstrable. Placebo is real and demonstrable. The efficacy of magic cables is not demonstrable. There are no measurements or tests that show any meaningful differences and when proper double blind testing is performed the differences claimed suddenly disappear.

These companies rely on the shortcomings of human hearing and take advantage of sighted bias and psychoacoustics, the way we perceive sound. I've yet to see any of those guys accept an offer to participate in a dbt and demonstrate the truth of the claims. There's always an excuse. Always.

 

[jakkedtide]

I will stick with my 12 gauge Monoprice speaker wire

Thanks guys for your help

I am getting my Yamaha a8a any day now

 

[NINaudio]

I will stick with my 12 gauge Monoprice speaker wire

Thanks guys for your help

I am getting my Yamaha a8a any day now

And you're returning those power cables too, right?

 

[NINaudio]

Ya. 1000-1700 retail depending on the length!

Just imagine putting another $2000-$3400 on top of the cost of those Klipsch speakers. You can get some really really great speakers at that point ($3600-5000).

 

[jakkedtide]

And you're returning those power cables too, right?

I never said I bought them, just inquired about a line and I randomly picked tornado

 

[Trebdp83]

Well, now you know where these guys all stand regarding them. Whatever you buy, keep it under your hat.

 

[NINaudio]

I never said I bought them, just inquired about a line and I randomly picked tornado

From the youtube quote you said you had bought a pair of them, that's what I was going on.

 

[Trebdp83]

Busted!