RCA and LFE connected to subwoofer.

[RyanMN]

Hi. I currently have a 5.1 set up using a AV receiver. I've purchased but not received a Hagel H120 with HT bypass to enjoy 2 channel through my CSS Critons. The plan is to utilize the Hagels bypass when watching movies essentially using it as an amp for the fronts.

I'd like to listen to music in a 2.1 with the source connected directly to the Hagel. Can I connect the line out from the Hegal to the sub, as well as keep the LFE channel connected from the receiver?

I currently have the subs crossover turned all the way up letting the receiver process that. Obviously that would have to change in a 2.1 set up. I'd have to adjust the crossover to match my speakers properly. I'm assuming that won't make to big of difference? Assuming the bass in a movie track will typically be below the base in 2 chanel listening.

I have a main HT set up in the basement already so I am willing to compromise upstairs for movies.. Please let me know if I'm way off base. Thanks!

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[RyanMN]

I should mention my main source is a Blusound node. It does have some eq management so maybe I utilize it in place of manually adjusting the sub?

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[BMXTRIX]

The line level output of the Hegel is variable and shouldn't have any issues connecting to your subwoofer as long as your sub has RCA inputs.

 

[lovinthehd]

So you'll have to fuss with the sub controls manually each time you change over from one system to the other somewhat for level and the position of the low pass filter? Sounds like a pain for what advantage?

 

[RyanMN]

I think I have a plan. The Bluesound has a sub out. So I will Y from the Bluesound and AVR to the sub. I'll never use the AVR and Bluesound at the same time.

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[lovinthehd]

Will that resolve (potential) different output levels between the avr and Bluesound? Does the Bluesound have sufficient bass management where you won't have to make manual adjustments to the sub?

 

[RyanMN]

The Bluesound does have bass management. I will have to play with it to find out if it's any good. It's a solution. Not sure if it's the best. If the Bluesound does not get turned off and the AVR is turned on, the sub will be getting both signals at once...I'm going to do some research on my subs internals.

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[lovinthehd]

The Bluesound does have bass management. I will have to play with it to find out if it's any good. It's a solution. Not sure if it's the best. If the Bluesound does not get turned off and the AVR is turned on, the sub will be getting both signals at once...I'm going to do some research on my subs internals.

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Curious, if you really want two systems, why not just create two separate systems? Just what advantage does the Hegel bring as an alternate integrated amp? I was also wondering about the inputs on your sub connected to two different units; the use of some subs' LFE inputs automatically bypass the low pass filter...one thought that occurs to me along those lines is does that matter if the unit connected to the LFE input is in standby like most avrs remain, let alone turning both units connected to the sub on? What is the problem you're trying to resolve in the first place by adding the Hegel?

 

[Trebdp83]

What is the AV receiver in use now?

 

[RyanMN]

My goal with the Hegal was better two channel sound. Testing it today it sounds much better than my Yamaha RX-V2065 for hifi listening. I could have just added an amp to the AVR. But this would still be using my AVR as a pre amp and DAC. The pre amp and the DAC is better in the Hegal for music. That's why I am hooking my Bluesound directly to the Hegal for music. Bypassing the Bluesounds internal DAC in favor of the Hegals.

During the day I enjoy listening to music while I work in our main livingroom. In the evenings it's the family's main tv/movie area. My goal was to combine both. I have achieved that with the Hegals HT bypass ability. Essentially in bypass mode it acts just like an amplifier for the AVR. Bypassing it's volume controls.

Sharing the subwoofer between the AVR and the Hegal is the issue. The sub is a Definitve Technology Super Cube 1. These are the options I have thought about.

Remove the LFE from the equation. Set the AVR up to run full range on the front channels. Use the line out on the Hegal to the low level in on the sub. Adjust the crossover accordingly. Upside this might be better for two channel listening. Down side I will miss out on the LFE signals in movies.

Run a Y cable from the LFE out of the AVR and into the mono sub out of the Bluesound. Then connect the single rca to the LFE input on the sub. The down side of this is always remembering to turn off one or the other so I don't give mixed signals to the sub.

Run both the LFE from the AVR, and the low level in from the Hegal into the sub. The manual says the LFE on the sub bypasses the subs internal crossover section in favor of using the AVRs processing. Perhaps when both the LFE and low level inputs are used at the same time the sub will default to the LFE signal. Perhaps though just being connected to the AVR in sleep mode will keep it defaulted to the AVR signal rendering the low level input from the Hegal useless anyway. Or the thing will go crazy, start on fire, blow up and kill the family. Can I damage anything trying it out?

By no means do I pretend to really know what I'm talking about comapired to most active members on this forum. Perhaps I'm off base on all the options..







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[Trebdp83]

Wouldn't try dual connections to sub. Would try a couple of things. Front Large on Yamaha and pre outs to Hegel. Speaker wires from Hegel to sub High Level inputs and then out to speakers. Bluesound optical to Hegel. No connection to LFE. Second, and the one I’d try first, Bluesound optical to Hegel, Bluesound Sub Out to Yamaha Multi Channel Sub In. Then, Hegel Pre Out to Yamaha Multi Channel In Left and Right. Yamaha LFE to Subwoofer.

So, with option two, you would turn the Yamaha to the MULTI CH source for playback of music streamed from the Bluesound. The Bluesound will bitstream digital audio to the Hegel while at the same time sending a signal from the SubW Out to the Yamaha MULTI CH IN. I believe the SUBW OUT on the Bluesound is always active.

This second setup should give you just about everything you wanted. It will give you the Hegel’s DAC and Yamahas power for movies and music with a single connection from the Yamaha to the subwoofer. You will have some volume leveling to do. Try it out. If it sucks, forget I ever mentioned it. But, whatever you do, do not make multiple connections to that sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

That DefTec thing is barely a sub in the first place. That's justification right there for a real one that you can hook up separately! I just can't imagine the Hegel has such a difference as either an amp or a dac to make the fussing worthwhile....let alone the additional expense.

 

[Trebdp83]

Well, we all work with what we have on hand. Nothing more fun than silly experiments. The MULTI IN on the Yamaha bypasses all processing and just sends out what it gets in. So, music streamed from the Bluesound and sent to the Hegel will be untouched by the Yamaha's processing. There are some settings in the Bluesound to deal with regarding SUBW OUT using this configuration. It's all in good fun. Sillier experiments have worked. My Onkyo does not have a built in Qobuz app. My Yamaha does within MusicCast. Hmmm. How 'bout connecting the Yamaha to the Onkyo from the Yamaha HDMI OUT to an HDMI source input on the Onkyo? Set the Yamaha to Pure Direct and audio output to HDMI OUT instead of speakers and leave processing to the Onkyo. Had to juggle MusicCast app and Onkyo remote control but it worked. The Yamaha made for a bulky and pricey streaming box.

 

[Pogre]

Man. Sounds like a lot of added complexity and potential for criticality to satisfy a placebo. I seriously doubt there's any audible difference using the Hegel unless something is wrong with one of them. I'd bet a paycheck you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a controlled setting.

 

[Trebdp83]

5 will get you 10.

 

[Pogre]

The sub is a Definitve Technology Super Cube 1. These are the options I have thought about.

There's your opportunity for a real, audible sonic improvement. You need some real subwoofage. I'd switch gears, get a better sub (or 2) and learn to get them integrated properly. After speakers, adding the right subs hands down made the biggest difference to my sq. It's not about having big thumpy bass either. Good subs, carefully integrated, have a way of cleaning up the whole spectrum.

The difference for me was transformative and what I wish I could experience every time I upgrade something. Swapping out amps and DAC's is just chasing the dragon. The differences are so minute as to be inaudible. I'm unaware of a single study or properly controlled dbt where the participants were able to tell the difference between "audiophile" and just plain "good". I think amp and DAC dollars are much better spent on better transducers, not chasing after inaudible micro-specs.

*Edit: check out this study done under controlled settings between entry level and audiophile gear, using the same speakers. The results are pretty compelling.

Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

 

[RyanMN]

Well, we all work with what we have on hand. Nothing more fun than silly experiments. The MULTI IN on the Yamaha bypasses all processing and just sends out what it gets in. So, music streamed from the Bluesound and sent to the Hegel will be untouched by the Yamaha's processing. There are some settings in the Bluesound to deal with regarding SUBW OUT using this configuration. It's all in good fun. Sillier experiments have worked. My Onkyo does not have a built in Qobuz app. My Yamaha does within MusicCast. Hmmm. How 'bout connecting the Yamaha to the Onkyo from the Yamaha HDMI OUT to an HDMI source input on the Onkyo? Set the Yamaha to Pure Direct and audio output to HDMI OUT instead of speakers and leave processing to the Onkyo. Had to juggle MusicCast app and Onkyo remote control but it worked. The Yamaha made for a bulky and pricey streaming box.

Thanks man. I'm going to try this out.

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[Leemix]

The easiest way would be to just not use the sub for 2ch listening but thats not optimal, especially if the speakers arent fairly full range. I understand wanting to use better sounding equipment for 2ch but its often difficult or partially impossible to do. And yes fairly small differences can have a large impact on the enjoyment and amount of use of a system. I use a separate DAC when listening to music, it just sounds better to me than the processor does.

(A better sub will give a lot of return on investment for movies)


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[RyanMN]

I understand how big a difference subs and speakers can make. I have two 15" Paradigm subs in the basement along with some Sonus Faber Sonnettos. By far they made the biggest improvement. The super cube provides more than enough thump with a small footprint. Its a surprising sub I would recommend.

I disagree that amps/processors make no difference. I read that alot on this forum. Everytime I switch out gear not only do I notice a difference but my wife does as well. On the same system swapping out my Yamaha 2065 for an Anthem MRX1140 made a large diffrence for movies and music. If it's placebo then I'm fine with that. What's the difference. Every hobby has diminishing returns.

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[Trebdp83]

You do you. Everybody here does one thing or another that somebody else might find questionable but such is life. Each do with their own gear whatever it is they want to do with it. I simply offered a couple of combinations of connections in an attempt to get you where you wanted to go without blowing up that sub with multiple sources going to it. I'd be interested in the results.